The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
It is lutter unacy, though – in this, Fedup (and Max Hastings) are right.
NATO is attacking a country in what seems clearly to have been an engineered, well-planned pretext and assault and that country has a Russian naval base – maybe armed with nuclear submarines? This is much more dangerous than the 1990s Serbian situation.
Putin is quoted as;”it is worth fighting over Syria, even if it means the fighting will end in the outskirts of Moscow”.
Chinese intelligence and strategists have probably worked that out too, don’t you think?
@ Ben Franklin
“Fascinating analysis. Now if you could just provide a list of the large number of posters and the substantiation for your claim they would rather “speculate, prognosticate, conspiracy-theorize, prophecy doom and destruction and simply rant’ on a case-by-case, then you can demonstrate your knowledge and expertise and be worthy of an informative, reasoned discussion.”
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Proof is right under your nose, Ben – just re-read this thread.
I think it’s got everything except Trowbridge’s earthquakes that are really US nuclear bombs.
“lutter unacy” of course, should have read, ‘utter lunacy’!
Yes, Fedup, China will have thought of it. I didn’t know Putin had said that – interesting.
I can’t find that quote Fedup.
@Phil.1152am
“Massacres That Matter – ‘Responsibility To Protect’ In Egypt, Libya And Syria
”
Thanks for the link.
Medialens, what a rare and refreshing BS free zone!
“The ‘responsibility to protect’ (R2P), formulated at the 2005 UN World Summit, is based on the idea that state sovereignty is not a right but a responsibility. Where offending states fail to live up to this responsibility by inflicting genocide, ethnic cleansing and other crimes against humanity on their own people, the international community has a responsibility to act. Economic sanctions and the use of military force can thus be employed as ‘humanitarian intervention…
…R2P is often described as an ’emerging norm’ in international affairs. But as Noam Chomsky has noted, Japan’s attack on Manchuria, Mussolini’s invasion of Ethiopia, and Hitler’s occupation of Czechoslovakia were ‘all accompanied by lofty rhetoric about the solemn responsibility to protect the suffering populations’. In fact, R2P has ‘been considered a norm as far back as we want to go’.”
More at:
http://www.medialens.org/index.php?option=com_acymailing&ctrl=archive&task=view&mailid=237&key=081f4df9530775013aa95c95ec39acf9&subid=16030-358f072512ac13749bd2a2c899362389&tmpl=component
“Proof is right under your nose, Ben – just re-read this thread”
I think yo missed the point of the exercise.
“I dunno Suhayl; Putin is full or ‘roid rage and testosterone is in there too. I think the bloviation on Syria must have some follow-through, or his political capital will dissolve.”
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Example of prognostication based on zero real knowledge(from Ben Franklin himself) – who was it who asked me to find examples for him?
This is the niggling push at the beginning of a fight.
UK,US,France,Israel want to punish Syria for someone’s use of CW , but if Syria retaliate and defend themselves then the Cassus Belli will be so big and blatant the lack of evidence will no longer matter.They are bound to hit something with all that Russian air defence. Cruise missiles have a tendency to go AWOL. Jets will have to be used.
This is Israel’s big chance to complete the ethnic cleansing of Palestine, grab the water of the Litani, and possibly the Tigris, along with more land before cessation of hostilities to regain their biblical lands.They’ll have their pipeline thru Syria and will have hegemony over the complete Levant.No doubt this was discussed with Fox n Werrity before witless Wullie was injected with testosterone.
Israels problem is that their Army is not up to a real fight. They are pretty good against unarmed Palestinians and Lebanese, but against armed Lebanese their resolve melts into their falafel.
I can see this all going very pear-shaped for the Coalition of the Criminals.
“”No military attack will be waged against Syria,” Director-General of the parliament for International Affairs Hossein Sheikholeslam said on Monday.
“Yet, if such an inciden takes place, which is impossible, the Zionist regime will be the first victim of a military attack on Syria,” he added.”
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.aspx?nn=13920604000513
I don’t think some of you have got this excited since the Al-Hilili thread!
Keep it up, only a few to go before we hit 4000! Quality and knowledge unimportant, just let it all hang out.
It was said in a closed meeting to a private audience!
Don’t forget US had the blessing of the Russians in the Iraq war; “US cannot appear to be defeated at this juncture” was what Putin said in one his interviews when the US forces were caught in the sand storms of the Iraqi deserts!
The “group think”, “cognitive dissonance” that has beset the fucking lunatics in the Western capitals no longer is in the realms of “sanity” and “realism”.
“Yeah, but we don’t use no stinkin’ gas” John Kerry.
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2013/08/27-3
“Now, a rep for the Teddy Bear Fund — an org. dedicated to giving out stuffed animals at abuse shelters — tells TMZ,
“Miley [Cyrus] made a poor choice to use a universally loved children’s teddy bear in an offensive way.”
Miley is obviously a mind- controlled stooge of the CIA and her dance of the seven veils (first 6 veils redacted), was precisely timed to distract from Syria.
Where’s my evidence for such an outrageous assertion? In the same place the Obama regime’s evidence of any chemical attack in Syria or who might be responsible, is located — looney, nutter, craycray, meth-esque, over-coked, monkeys hurling grenades wonderland. It’s stamped Top Secret for the next 50 years.
The speed of organisation of the gathering attack on Syria seems precisely to be aimed at preventing the UN Inspectors from completing their investigation. This too seems redolent of Iraq. What might the UK/France et al have to hide, one wonders? One also wonders whether this has been planned in great detail for many months beforehand.
The largest man made catastrophe since WWII about to ignite, and we’re all Oh so Exited…And it tries to tell us whats wrong with the Blog. FFS.
Iran Knows full well it’s next in line for Kind western Help, we should be excited about that too eh, and none it will affect us, When they start on Iran, we will perhaps be at our MOST EXCITED,
If i may, i shall replace the word excited with, Horrified, Or Helpless, or Heartbroken, or even Scared Shitless
Addendum: Just realized, that remark about a monkey a with hand grenade by Russian Deputy PM Rogozin, could be construed as racist, perhaps intentional. If so, please substitute polar bears in my version.
Is the crisis in Syria Obama’s revenge for being made a fool in the Snowden affair?
“Is the crisis in Syria Obama’s revenge for being made a fool in the Snowden affair?’
Trust me. Obama wants no part of conflict or controversy. He wears suspenders and belts.
In a way I feel sorry for him. POTUS is a figurehead office, much like UK royalty.
He has a halter and a bit in his mouth as any War Horse does.
“The speed of organisation of the gathering attack on Syria seems precisely to be aimed at preventing the UN Inspectors from completing their investigation. This too seems redolent of Iraq.”
Exactly, Suhayl. The UN won’t be called upon. They learned their lesson. The timetable is full speed ahead before any rationale for waiting can be proffered.
SoS Hagle’s think tank, I believe.
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/news/in-the-news/pavel-on-syria-the-rubicon-has-been-crossed
Mr. H., thank you for policing the discourse here, it’s ever so helpful! While you’re here helping us think, I was just wondering, Do you think that the shaking is torture? Or is does it more properly fall under the rubric of Convention Against Torture Article 16? I go back and forth – on the one hand, it cripples prisoners with permanent traumatic brain injury, when the IDF does it to helpless Palestinian captives, but on the other hand, it doesn’t leave a mark, does it? It follows the Japanese WWII torture principles quite faithfully. Needless to say, we don’t hang torturers these days, so it’s really just an academic issue, perhaps it might mean a few years more or less on the sentence of an old man cast aside by his great-power protectors, hypothetically speaking… Well, thanks again! What would we do without Mr. H’s incisive logic and scrupulous honesty?
According to my late mother PBUH, a regular visitor to her ARP warden post on the corner of Penge High Street was hung up by jaundiced logic his ‘reserve’ stash of gold would be stolen by looters known to pilfer from vacated premises.
Rejecting warning advice to evacuate to a shelter his ‘reserve’ hard moolah was lost including his wife and three children when a ‘doodle-bug’ hit Crystal Palace Park road obliterating a number of houses thankfully mostly empty.
“A medium of exchange is an exchange of medium” [hint: ‘Blah’]
Einstein
Hi Mark; If you might, tell us what your Military experience is. Be brief or elaborate as you wish.
I think it would help expand the acceptance of your sage perspective.
“President Obama believes there must be accountability for those who would use the world’s heinous weapons against the world’s most vulnerable people.”
Doesn’t the chem attack trail seem to have a habit of leading back to Washington?
It seems a bit of a tangle to me. Nightmare Logic meets Cognative Dissonance. A marriage made in heaven.
Let’s get this straight, the power elites in Washington,
who have long been the world’s premier developer , supplier and user of chemical weapons,
are telling us we have our taxes used by Nato to blitzkrieg Syria cos,
on account of all the piles hard evidence that Kerry saw on Twitter,
news-flashes show Assad military chem’d his of suburban civilians
in order to defeat the guys they were shooing at the day before,
and the UN inspectors have no business investigating a chemical attack that has just happened
on the capital’s doorstep, because um……………it’s too late!
and anyway they should be driving all over the country investigating chem attacks that happened ages ago
and the telly is telling me to cheer this bomb-fest because, in fact, it would show
we are serious about fulfilling our “responsibility to protect”
and can someone please explain it to me
cos I think I need to stop and make a nice cuppa and take some deep breaths…….gasp…
Thanks Ben – Enlightenment exists in so many ways, but years of military access by ‘positive vetting’ to classified information has exposed the machiavellian mindset of most doyen leaders.
Nice one Sofia
had me turning Blue there Lol
Fedup @ 9;31 ” What will the Russians And China Do”
Not sure about China…But
looks like Putin in no mood to be cowered.
Putin Orders Massive Strike Against Saudi Arabia If West Attacks Syria
A grim “urgent action memorandum” issued today from the office of President Putin to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation is ordering a “massive military strike” against Saudi Arabia in the event that the West attacks Syria.
According to Kremlin sources familiar with this extraordinary “war order,” Putin became “enraged” after his early August meeting with Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan who warned that if Russia did not accept the defeat of Syria, Saudi Arabia would unleash Chechen terrorists under their control to cause mass death and chaos during the Winter Olympics scheduled to be held 7-23 February 2014 in Sochi, Russia.
According to Kremlin sources familiar with this extraordinary “war order,” Putin became “enraged” after his early August meeting with Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan who warned that if Russia did not accept the defeat of Syria, Saudi Arabia would unleash Chechen terrorists under their control to cause mass death and chaos during the Winter Olympics scheduled to be held 7-23 February 2014 in Sochi, Russia.
http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1699.htm
What I meant to write,
we have to have our taxes used by Nato to blitzkrieg Syria cos,
on account of all the piles of hard evidence that Kerry saw on Twitter
and so on
and only 9% of Americans are favour of another war and the US army is losing more soldiers to suicide than enemy action so it seems morale is really low……
Goodnight all.
Thanks Brian for that breaking link. The small, cuddly and smiling mascot bear “Misha” of the 1980 Moscow Olympic Games has once again morphed into the “big and brutal Russian Bear” in the face of UKUSIS + Fr and Saudi terrorist foolishness and irrationality.
The http://www.eutimes.net/2013/08/putin-orders-massive-strike-against-saudi-arabia-if-west-attacks-syria/
Sofia Kibo Noh 28 Aug, 2013 – 12:56 am
“President Obama believes there must be accountability for those who would use the world’s heinous weapons against the world’s most vulnerable people.”
I could not help laughing. But it’s a serious subject. Off to bed. Tomorrow I’m preaching.
Brian,
Never ever trust an article by “Sorcha Faal, and as reported to her Western Subscribers”
Disinfo.
But who knows maybe she/he gets bits right occasionally.