The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
[Mod: attack on another poster, removed – it’s not possible to determine who is a paid propagandist anyway]
Thanks, Ben.
What’s your view on States’ rights and the constitution, and do the people you meet have much interest in things like the way the country is going in terms of their rights and so on?
A report by email has claimed two Egyptian army generals have been assassinated.
http://rt.com/news/egypt-milllions-protest-morsi-458/
Villager, observe carefully; Habbabkuk does not express any opinions here about politics, world affairs, human rights, or indeed anything – except opinions about other contributors’ comments.
Of course, anyone who’s nearly 100% critical of their peers is likely to expect others to act similarly. Habbabkuk could be simply too scared to express opinions, and thus resorts to discouraging others from expressing theirs; a vicious circle.
Or it could be a conscious strategy, in which case I ask; for what purpose would such a strategy be useful?
Further to recent events in Egypt, note that Craig posted the following six weeks ago:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/07/counter-revolution/
…and on Newsnight this evening, that’s exactly the line the government spokesperson was doing his best to keep to. It wasn’t easy to justify the UK government’s support for the Egyptian military who have killed at least 150 protesters and injured over a thousand, but he repeatedly called them the “Egyptian government” and confirmed that the UK will recognise them as the legitimate government of Egypt.
This happened when I tried to forward an email:
The size of the message you are trying to send exceeds a temporary size limit of the server. The message was not sent; try to reduce the message size or wait some time and try again. The server responded: … temporary failure.
GCHQ OR HMGCC ?
Mark: I’d be surprised if it were some listening/spying agency electing to block your message, and pretending it was due to its size. After all, the more data they get the happier they are.
It sounds as if this message was generated by your Thunderbird client, following a fairly generic complaint from the mail server at the other end.
Thunderbird Connection Errors
It wouldn’t be that surprising if the server did experience some hiccup – the long anticipated “web-tone” level of reliability has still yet to arrive.
Herbie; It’s like every other form of government, whether democratic or dictatorship. The former is the proverbial iron hand in a velvet glove while the latter is more direct and immediate.
I am for State’s rights in direct conjunction with Constitutional preemption as a requisite, not to flounder in lower courts because the same power structure commands, and the cost is so high without an advocate, which has money, and the courage to pursue into appeals court.
The dollar cost is enormous. I support Superfund trusts for legal costs, borne by the top 1%
similar to the EPA superfund for the purpose of indirectly fining the Industries for their negative contributions. The ‘fees’ prescribed would be similar to the landmark case wrt Archers Daniels Midlands in say, 1998 wherein they were find 10 times the profit generated from the illegal activity. The beancounters understand this kind of math and they make most of the decisions since 1992.
Have i wandered far off the mark? I sometimes ramble, especially after Glennfiddich on an empty tummy.
The links below are from Why US Democracy Transition in Egypt Turns Again
http://www.burbankdigest.com/node/456
Egypt army chief El-Sissi trained at US Army War College
April 24, 2013 file photo, Egyptian Defense Minister Gen. Abdel-Fattah el-Sissi reviews honor guards during an arrival ceremony for his U.S. counterpart at the Ministry of Defense in Cairo.
El-Sissi, born in 1954, appointed commander in chief of the Egyptian armed forces since August 2012, replacing Field Marshall Mohammed Hussein Tantawi. he is Chairman of the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces (SCAF) and Minister of Defense. El-Sisi graduated from Egyptian military academy in 1977 and received master’s degree from US army War College in 2006. He was appointed Commander of the Northern Military Region-Alexandria and Head of Military Intelligence.
http://cumberlink.com/news/local/egypt-s-army-chief-trained-at-army-war-college/article_c2b8a884-e763-11e2-b90a-001a4bcf887a.html
Hagel Contacts Egyptian General Now In Charge
Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel has maintained close contact with *Gen. Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, who graduated from the U.S. War College in 2006, through the political crisis…and last Thursday as the huge demonstrations calling for Morsi’s ouster took an increasingly anti-U.S. tone…Gen. Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, also kept in contact with Egyptian chief of staff Gen. Sedki Sobhi, to assure that U.S. citizens in Egypt, and the U.S. Embassy in Cairo, would be protected…Hagel and Dempsey were walking a fine line in contacts with the Egyptian military, expressing concern while attempting to avoid the impression that the U.S. was manipulating events behind the scenes…
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/07/03/hagel-contacts-egyptian-general-now-in-charge.html
U.S. to go ahead with joint military exercise in Egypt
US plans to hold the mid-September ‘Bright Star’ major military exercise in Egypt, U.S. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said, even after (sic) Egypt’s military toppling of the president and the violence it has ensued….The joint drill…a cornerstone of U.S.-Egyptian military relations, began after the U.S. brokered the Egypt-Israel Camp David Peace Accords….Egypt’s interim military-backed rulers signaled they would soon act to end weeks of sit-in protests, setting up a potentially bloody showdown with Morsi Muslim Brotherhood supporters….
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/31/us-egypt-protests-usa-military
That link does not work. This new one says that the joint exercise will probably not take place.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/14/egypt-protests-usa-idUSL2N0GF1L920130814
Cameron, in his tribute to the Sky News cameraman, was being disingenuous in saying that without such brave cameramen and journalist, ‘we would not know what is happening’. Come off it Cameron. You and your cohort know exactly what is going on.
Rubbaduck, bitching to another poster re a question it has been asked and for which, for some reason declines even to offer its original opinion:
Thirdly, you would like a 40 year old problem solved overnight on Craig Murray’s blog. Since you seem to find that feasible, here’s a couple of important issues I’d like you to prognosticate on:
It’s a 60 year old problem. And no-one’s asking you to settle it, Rubbaduck. Just to demonstrate the existence of a conscious mind. A sort of Middle Eastern Turing test, if you will.
“What do you see as the best chance for peace between the state of Israel and a proposed state of Palestine?”
Let me help you. As I see it, you have four alternatives:
1. Continue to evade any questions put to you, and respond by denigrating the questioner. This clearly indicates your malicious intent in posting here.
2. Trot out the Authorised Hasbara Version
3. Think for yourself
4. Echo Gilad Atzmon.
See? Not so hard to answer after all!
Hands up all those who read every word of Villager’s long dreary post. I skimmed it and nearly died of boredom. I note he has adopted the word Eminences used by the beach volleyer. Pathetic/
65 year old, even…
The legacy of Miss Edwards will be frittered away in this manner.
“Lord King was presented with a £10,000 copy of a painting of himself, a £2,505 replica bust of German writer Johann von Goethe and a silver napkin ring costing £597.
More than £13,000 was also spent on retirement parties for Lord King, including £1,501 on flowers and invitations.
The gifts and parties were all paid for by the Bank, which is publicly owned.
The information emerged following a freedom of information request from MSN UK, the online news website, with the Bank insisting the gift of the silver napkin ring is normal for all departing senior directors.
The response said: “As with previous retiring governors, the bank commissioned a portrait of Governor King, and presented him with a copy. This cost £10,000. In addition, the Governor received a replica bust of Johann von Goethe. This cost £2,505.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/bank-of-england/10242749/Mervyn-King-given-26000-worth-of-parties-and-presents-on-leaving-Bank-of-England.html
PS The skin colour in the portrait gives him the look of an extra terrestrial.
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00441/King_441226c.jpg
Perhaps he is one.
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That portrait of Lord King:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/6/25/1372194446411/26.06.13-Steve-Bell-on-Me-002.jpg
Another Lord King –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_King,_5th_Earl_of_Lovelace
Nice guy, used to like a dram, runs shop in Inverness (or used to). Would probably have made an even lousier Governor of the B of E than Mervyn.
You could make it up.
The ‘London Whale’ aka Bruno Iksil, a French trader who commuted to the *City from Paris! $6.2bn of losses. The trader is not charged but two of those who worked with him are being prosecuted by the US government.
As the crime was committed in London, why is there not a British prosecution?
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324823804579012550859130222.html?mod=WSJUK_hpp_LEFTTopWhatNews
Stamina needed to wade through this. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_JPMorgan_Chase_trading_loss
*London City Airport had its uses.
What lies, what deceit, what mendacity! And just a fraction of the crime that took place.
just to renew my invitation for tomorrows 12 noon Cafe Gandolfi discussion, Glasgow. Todays claim that some 2000 people have been killed all over Egypt during the last 72 hrs. marks a horrendous indictment on behalf of the west.
After decades of being able to manipulate malleable rulers in Egypt, we are now stooping to the worst of all actions allowing the military a free hand and plenty of teargas to go round.
The agenda for tomorrow is open as the events in the middle east are beginning to merge.My last impression on my way to Edinburgh yesterday was the fighter jets overhead doing their attack loops, September could get decisively hot.
Should nobody fancy a coffee on me, will be there till 1pm definately, I shall scarper and drown my sorrow….:) in some wiski hole.
Hope the discussion is productive, Nevermind. Looks to me as if the events of the last year or so in Egypt were preplanned – let the plebs have their little vote, almost certainly resulting in a Muslim Brotherhood government. Tell the Army to lay off and pretend to be on the plebs’ side (they had nothing against Mubarraq that I could see). Let the peoples’ choice have enough rope to hang itself, aided by incessant propaganda on the ground and a pretty incompetent leader, and, under threat of withdrawing $1.3 Bn in annual military aid, send the army in to conclude the plan and put a ($1.3Bn annually) more compliant regime in place. Oh, and it puts Hamas on the back foot as well. Trumpets sounding in Tel Aviv, too.
“Hands up all those who read every word of Villager’s long dreary post.”
_________
Well, I did, for one. Lot of common sense and convincing analysis there.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
“I skimmed it and nearly died of boredom.”
_______________
Sorry to hear that. Personally, I should put innumerable posts about Israel/Palestine – none of which have had the slightest impact in the real world; not a single Zionist will have been convinced of the error of his ways, the life of not a single Palestinian wull have been improved by an iota – much higher in the boredom table.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
“I note he has adopted the word Eminences used by the beach volleyer. Pathetic/”
_________
Yes indeed, this is further damning evidence against Villager. How dare he?!
Have a nice day, all!
What lies, what deceit, what mendacity!
Not for nothing is the Reverend Blair paid £2m annually to advise them. See they’ve got the contract for ‘advising’ on reprivatising Lloyds too….
Sorry not to be able to join you Nevermind but have one for me. Good luck. Did you see my post on the Sutton, Surrey incinerator that is being foisted on the people?
Way back on p 5 http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/07/feile-an-phobail-belfast/comment-page-5/#comment-422400
The final decision is Boris’s and we can guess the likely Yes vote. He proposes to close 10 London’s fire stations with the loss of 500+ jobs. Should we carry around our own fire extinguishers or set up our own neighbourhood fire stations?
London fire cuts: Mayor gives plans green light
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23576397
European Citizens’ Initiative for an Unconditional Basic Income
http://basicincome2013.eu/ubi/
You mean this, Rubbaduck? I bet you like Walter Scott, too…
Empathy and justice are quite a different thing. And the more subtly expressed the more i trust it as being genuine rather than through hoarse (counter) propaganda. The psychological dividing line is as subtle, or not, as a vessel that is silver-plated and genuine silver. Anyone who wishes to fault Habby for his perspective on this matter had better dig deep for factual references and stop playing this childish game of portraying themselves as being superior compassionate human beings. The most genuine charity is done quietly not like Mary coming here and telling us how she’s giving a few shillings to the Palestinian orchestra. I have followed the thread closely and have observed that Habby ….
Babu writing. But insofar as it has substance as opposed to rhetoric, the section in bold (mine) made me laugh.
Rubbaduck had better provide some references, no? For his impenetrably subtle carping?
@ Komodo (08h26)
Expressing polite amazement rather than bitching, I should have said. But that’s by the by.
Thank you for appointing me as your guru on the Middle East, I appreciate that.
You’re obviously a man who likes long-term historical perspectives, so let me, in turn, ask you something:
“What do you see as the best chance for a peaceful, just and durable resolution of the problem of Kashmir, which has caused tension and even armed conflict between India and Pakistan since 1948”?
“For his impenetrably subtle carping?”
_____________
If my posts are inpenetrable, how do you manage to characterize them as carping?
You answer Doug Scorgie’s, and I will be very happy to answer yours. Honestly, and without having to be asked eight times. I may even supply links supporting my view.
But Doug asked first:
“What do you see as the best chance for peace between the state of Israel and a proposed state of Palestine?”
I was being sarcastic, Rubbaduck, and referring to Villager’s mysterious observation that your posts are in some way subtle. Surprised you didn’t recognise the technique.
There was one remark that Villager made….. Why don’t we talk about Tibet? I did some while back and it was Iain Orr who responded with useful observations on their treatment from his own knowledge.
This Krishnamurti person would have done better to have worked in his own country to lift the people from poverty rather than his proselytising and setting up schools in the West for the children of the rich and trendy. What a phony!
I heard the other day that hundreds of millions of Indian people have no sanitation.
Yes. The figure is 814 million.
Quick Facts
Capital city: New Delhi
Population of 1.2 billion
97 million lack safe water
814 million have no sanitation services
Infant mortality rate of 5%
30% live in poverty
The Water & Sanitation Crisis
India’s huge and growing population is putting a severe strain on all of the country’s natural resources. Most water sources are contaminated by sewage and agricultural runoff. India has made progress in the supply of safe water to its people, but gross disparity in coverage exists across the country. Although access to drinking water has improved, the World Bank estimates that 21% of communicable diseases in India are related to unsafe water. In India, diarrhea alone causes more than 1,600 deaths daily—the same as if eight 200-person jumbo-jets crashed to the ground each day. Hygiene practices also continue to be a problem in India. Latrine usage is extremely poor in rural areas of the country; only 14% of the rural population has access to a latrine. Hand washing is also very low, increasing the spread of disease. In order to decrease the amount of disease spread through drinking-water, latrine usage and hygiene must be improved simultaneously.
http://water.org/country/india/
Could Villager please cease his obsessive and endless proselytising for K on this blog.
Students offered grants if they tweet pro-Israeli propaganda
“In a campaign to improve its image abroad, the Israeli government plans to provide scholarships to hundreds of students at its seven universities in exchange for their making pro-Israel Facebook posts and tweets to foreign audiences.”
More http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/students-offered-grants-if-they-tweet-proisraeli-propaganda-8760142.html
Meanwhile
US Aid to Israel Jumps to $11 Million Dollars Per Day
“The strength of the Jewish Lobby in Washington DC has been demonstrated once again with US President Barack Obama’s approval of a new congressional bill which boosts US taxpayer donations to $11 million every day.
“Previously, this figure stood at “only” $8 million every day, but in terms of the now finalized “United States-Israel Enhanced Security Cooperation Act of 2012,” American taxpayers will give an additional $40 billion in military funding to Israel over a ten-year period.”
More http://newobserveronline.com/us-aid-to-israel-jumps-to-11-million-dollars-per-day/
thanks for that incinerator link FJ, and the encouragement. the destabilisation of Egypt was planned the moment Tunesia was persuaded by a stall holder to change its regime, Mubarak looked decisively shaky and the army thought that the initial pro-democracy demonstrators were untouchable.
Morsi made mistakes and some were stupid. Like appointing a terror leader who some years back shot up some tourists in Luxor, as the local police chief there.
i see our resident troll still hasn’t found a bridge, neither has he brought anything ‘dishy’ to the discussion.
Komodo get your Hiabusa out, see how long it’ll take you to get to Glasgow….