The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
[Mod: ‘wanker’ is not helpful to whatever debate you are having, please avoid]
Dedicated to you amateur detectives:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29fHc0tnavI
Fedup. Yep. I almost wished I’d have said that. But then somebody might think we are one and the same.
How sad that somebody can adopt a different persona to have any attention.
La brutta vita methinks.
Fascinating discussion this evening. However, I would appeal to the censors^W moderators not to indulge in further deletion, and would very much appreciate at least an acknowledgement of my earlier argument to this point. (We had a discussion on it a few weeks back, my final argument in favour of free speech appeared to be either ignored or overlooked.)
Calls to the moderator to kindly delete this or that should be – with an intelligent audience – unnecessary. Indeed, points which were out of order from an opponent should be preserved, so that everyone can see the alleged injustice, and surely reach the correct conclusion.
The only reason to argue for censorship is that one considers the audience too immature to appreciate the full picture, and – further – is incapable of rightly processing what has been said, and will thus reach a totally inappropriate conclusion.
This line of reasoning – I believe – insults the intelligence of the audience, and has long been one of the more infantilising approaches of the British (esp. English) self appointed superior class, to what they consider the ignorant masses.
Nevermind @9;04 Am
All the best with the talk, i may try to get to that, but i have to be in Inverclde area for 2pm So not sure
Wonder What they are Cooking up next
Here’s an Extract from in interesting Page
THE NEXT TERRORIST ATTACK – What The Mainstream Media Isn’t Telling You
What does it matter that the U.S. government put together detailed plans to blow up one of their own passenger jets over Cuba, a plan explicitly crafted to lay the blame on Castro build public support of an invasion? This was called Operation Northwoods, again declassified, the government doesn’t deny it. Look it up. You can find the full document easily online.
But really why are we even talking about this? Clearly this kind of thing only happened in the early days of the CIA. Now the government has grown out of this. Now the government can be trusted.
Right.
Why does this matter? Why are we still talking about this? Because it still works.
Problem, Reaction, Solution.
Those in power create a problem, stimulate public outrage and channel it towards a solution that suits their purposes, whether that be new laws that give them more power or a war of aggression that they couldn’t sell if they told the truth.
They keep pulling the same trick on you over and over again like a school bully tricking a mentally disabled kid out of his lunch money. They’ll keep at it as long as you let them, until you wake up, until you start to see the pattern and the fog lifts from your brain.
Better wake up quickly though because these psychopaths, these so called powers that be are building up to something big. I can’t tell you what that event will be, and I can’t tell you when it’s going to happen, but I can tell you what they’re going to use it for: to expand the wars, and to take away more of your freedoms.
We may not be able to prevent whatever event is going to be used as a pretext, but we can work to influence the reaction, and if they don’t control the reaction, if they aren’t able to maintain control of the dialogue, if they aren’t able to get you quivering in your boots about the big bad men in the middle east, these Islamic terrorists in caves or these anti-government extremists in your midsts then this could very well backfire and actually wake more people up, but in order for that to happen you’re going to have to get off the sidelines and join the fight. The ideological revolution is not a spectator sport.
http://stormcloudsgathering.com/the-next-terrorist-attack-what-the-mainstream-media-isnt-telling-you
Brian – isn’t that the point, though? While you’re hopping from one foot to the other, wondering where the next Really Big terrorist attack might come from, your pocket is being picked, and you’re accepting your training.
Our public servants (immigration/ boarder control, customs, airport security etc.) have become our masters. We pretty much assume all our communications are being tracked, and we know we can be thrown in jail for a throw-away silly comment – which is obviously intended and seen as such.
We follow orders, we’ve abandoned any notion of privacy. Our representatives have become hand-picked stooges of the investor class, isolated from us with the threat of a “terrorism” charge never far away, if we should but step out of line in making a case to the establishment with an insufficient level of timidity.
Silly, stupid practices are now accepted as necessary survival measures. Take your shoes off while going through airports. Don’t you dare take a photograph of a well known public building. Don’t even think of a silly joke out loud, or utter a single thing that might be construed as threatening the establishment in any way. Throw people in jail for offences such as a drunken student making a silly, racist comment, even though nobody would have heard about it, still less the targeted party make a complaint.
So never mind the Next Great Terrorist Attack – look what our own governments have done to us, upon being given the opportunity of frightening us, under the pretence of “security”. (And if you’re not frightened enough, they’ll give you something to be frightened about.) The chances of any civilian being blown up by a terrorist is vastly less than the danger of drowning in a bathtub, or being killed by a falling television, but we don’t let the latter two entirely shape our way of life.
In the meantime, of course, just be thankful that the government is heroically preserving our miserable lives. Don’t even start to think about the spectacular and increasingly marked enrichment of the upper echelons of the investor class – buy magazines that flaunt the extravagances of our celebrities and consider yourself duly entertained! Sheesh, what more do you want?
Truth be told , after seeing the IDF shooting Palestinians kids who dare to play on their own open spaces and the creeping annexation of the West Bank, JK would have barred all jews from his talks , telling them instead to focus their minds on achieving harmony by less deception and occupation of Palestinian territory. Villager/habbakyk included.
Glenn_uk 2.44 a.m.
Excellent post.
Yes. Let the posts from Villager remain. Then people can see how the preaching and self righteousness descended into smut, sarcasm, abuse and even patronizing advice to look into mirrors. The irony is probably lost on him. He seems to be morphing into Habbabkuk.
Jeremy Hunt is likely to go to the top of the Tory rich list.
Hunt likely to pocket £15m
Sale of listings firm could hand Hunt £15m and propel him to top of Cabinet rich list
Hotcourses provides international listings for academic courses
It is being advised about a possible sale, according to sources
The Health Secretary is owner of 49% of the firm valued at £30m
His fortune was valued at £4.8m in 2012 and would soar to £20m
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2395204/Sale-listings-firm-hand-Jeremy-Hunt-15m-propel-Cabinet-rich-list.html
Meanwhile the NHS (remember the mantra ‘No top down reorganisation’ from Cameron – ‘NHS NHS NHS’ – ‘The NHS is safe in our hands’) goes into further decline.
Stop treating NHS ‘as failing bank’
Patients waiting to see a doctor
Pressures have been growing on A&E units for a number of years
•Safety ‘must be top priority in NHS’
•A&E crisis plans ‘not good enough’
•NHS ‘misses A&E waiting time target’
The government in England should stop treating the NHS like a “failing business or bank”, an influential journal says. In recent weeks, ministers have announced a bailout for A&E, the introduction of a price comparison website and talked of cost-cutting.
An editorial in the Lancet journal said such language was a “cynical” attempt to abdicate responsibility for the NHS.
/..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23717866
[Mod: a response to an abusive post, which is now gone. Please just ignore abusive posts – i.e. post nothing in response. Thanks]
This was Blair on August 4th.
“Egypt could pivot back towards democracy, with a constitution that is genuinely inclusive and objectively administered. There is the promise of elections by early 2014 and all parties, including the Muslim Brotherhood, could take part.” Oh dear!
~~
It is reported that he will receive 20m baht* to speak at a conference in Bangkok on ‘reconciliation’ but it is denied by a Thai minister.
* c £400k
Surapong denies Blair paid B20m
16 Aug 2013
Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Surapong Tovichakchaikul has denied a news report that the government has paid 20 million baht to hire former British prime minister Tony Blair to attend its forum promoting reconciliation.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/local/364831/tony-blair-waives-speaker-fee-for-unity-forum.
hey Brian Fujisan, I can get there a little earlier if I have to, at least we can of stuff we can’t talk about on here, quiet handy to meet now and then.
@John Goss, so you expect a split persona behind the two village yokel and it? why would that not surprise me, the needy pedant with a hang for pseudo wise men. Discussing religion is fraught with misconceptions and to add faith healers and scharlatans into the mix is prone to turn into a muddle.
Nevermind
“@John Goss, so you expect a split persona behind the two village yokel and it?”
Suspicions are just suspicions, there’s no real evidence like there was with you and Karel.
“Suspicions are just suspicions, there’s no real evidence like there was with you and Karel.”
Well said Fred. You can see them all spinning into delusions. Its kind of interesting to watch how little it takes to tip them off-balance, or perhaps they are already there? Thanks for keeping them grounded, straight and clear-thinking. Right action can only come from such a foundation.
John Goss
15 Aug, 2013 – 10:44 pm
“But Habbabkuk and Villager are you not one and the same? I have thought this for a while, ….”
John, sounds like you’ve been carrying this weight around for awhile. Suggest you meditate on this instead:
Einstein on Optical Illusion of Separateness
“A human being is a part of the whole called by us “the universe,” a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings, as something separate from the rest – a kind of optical illusion of consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening the circle of understanding and compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.” – Albert Einstein
“Anyway, let’s stop talking about me, worthy subject as I may be, and have some real substance today.”
Don’t pretend to get all shy you shameless hypocrite, as real substantive debates are the last thing you would like to see here, which is why you do your utmost to sabotage; your mission here to distract & disrupt, and is actually defined by your “La vita è bella!” slogan, which is basically the age-old ploy of every ruling elite, to distract away from its crimes by swamping the masses with Bread & Circuses, or the modern equivalent of Sex, Sport & Celebrity Culture.
“Suspicions are just suspicions”
Indeed, but Villager has morphed into such a deluded self-righteousness caricature with his obnoxious posts, that there is no real difference between himself & the Habbu-Clown, except that the latter pretends at times to be stupid, whereas Villager wouldn’t know how to pretend.
Hi Glenn, good post on the assault of our liberties. Wonder if you read this article i had posted y’day at 7.27pm. At the risk of repetition:
“A War On Terror Or An Assault On Liberal Values? – Analysis
August 14, 2013
The war on terror and the global financial crisis have tilted the balance of authority on the side of the state, which the liberating forces of cyber space have only partially counteracted. Can we prevent this seeming convergence between democratic societies and authoritarian states, so that the forces of liberalisation can prevail over the forces of incipient oppression?”
Read full analysis
http://www.eurasiareview.com/14082013-a-war-on-terror-or-an-assault-on-liberal-values-analysis/
Thank you for your contributions.
@Krishnamurky. 4 28am
I just returned to find you, a real-live (although technically dead) guru, commenting here. As you probably know while you were indisposed all sorts of people carried on the tradition of relieving the wealthy of their burdensome money in your name. A mission has even been set up on this blog to show the world the folly of those who believe in universal human rights, to denigrate or patronise anyone who dares to mention Al Nakba or related topics, and to generally bore us all senseless.
So now you are here Master, I fix my screen with vacant bovine eyes, awaiting whatever pearls of wisdom you see fit to cast my way.
I can’t sit for very long though cos stuff needs to be done in the world. For instance ever since Dad!’s “accident” Mr Kempe and That Man have been making me top up the jar they put his brain in (Dolmio 250gm) with nutrient solution. When they stimulate it with an electric currant it seems to churn our garbage as well as ever!
For example, when Doug gives it a question like, “What do you see as the best chance for peace between the state of Israel and a proposed state of Palestine?” it just quivers for a few moments before getting to work with a standard insult to Flaming Mary. So there’s really no noticeable change, and it’s cool really because it saves having him in the way around the house.
And now John and Fedup think Villager’s my dad too. That’s just weird, but maybe right. I wonder how many more dads are being put together as I write, in Haifa Uni’s Pulic Diplomacy cellars?
I’ll drop in tomorrow to sit at your feet dear guru, hoping for another transmission of timeless wisdom.
Worth considering and signing, despite any reservations about Avaaz:
https://secure.avaaz.org/en/stand_with_the_people_of_egypt_4/
There’s no indicator of how many people have signed yet – it might be that they launched this petition very quickly. They’re looking for a million signatures, and on past performance they may well get them.
(If people wouldn’t mind just refraining entirely from commenting about other posters, that would be great – sometimes not posting a rejoinder is the best course of action. Thanks.)
So much for trying to be smart and putting Doug’s question to Hasbarakuk in italics!
Here it is for you again dad, plain and simple, “What do you see as the best chance for peace between the state of Israel and a proposed state of Palestine?”
If everything after the question’s in italics again then maybe the problem doesn’t lie with me.
Nevermind:
“@John Goss, so you expect a split persona behind the two village yokel and it? why would that not surprise me, the needy pedant with a hang for pseudo wise men. Discussing religion is fraught with misconceptions and to add faith healers and scharlatans into the mix is prone to turn into a muddle.”
Nevermind, I don’t discuss ‘religion’. I discuss L.I.F.E. and the nature of the M.I.N.D. If you can live up to your supercilious name, you might get somewhere.
Interesting how willing you are to attack ‘village yokel’ and then espouse empathy with the billions of village-folk that are at the front lines of injustice around the World, be they in Syria, Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, the Indian sub-continent, Africa or South America and so on and so forth. Its what shows-up people like you as fakes.
Hi Jon.
Something’s gone wrong with Italics!
unless it’s in my laptop.
Pickles and the ConDems take the biscuit. Very good at turfing people out of their homes via the benefit cuts but they want bins accommodated.
Badly placed bins blight streets, says Eric Pickles
New housing developments in England should include sufficient space to store household bins out of view of the street, the government has said.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23719207#
Sorry Jon but am I to sit here and take insults like the c word being aimed at me without responding?
A post on Medialens from John Hilley.
JC: BBC to cut Kennedy slur from Proms broadcast
Posted by John Hilley on August 16, 2013, 11:39 am
http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/110366/bbc-cut-kennedy-slur-proms-broadcast
Lobby, lobby. Surprise, surprise.
John
~~~
This is quite appalling action from ZBC and their Zionist supporting management.
Ban Ki Moon urges….. The headline is almost humorous.
Ban Ki-moon urges Israel, Palestinians to refrain from undermining peace talks 08/16/2013
UN secretary-general meets with President Shimon Peres in Jerusalem following visit with PA President Mahmoud Abbas; Ban: Israel has legitimate security concerns and should not have to live in perpetual fear.
http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Ban-Ki-Moon-urges-parties-to-refrain-from-undermining-peace-talks-323296
“… my Lizard King was Jim Morrison and he was a living angel…” Hamlet, Prince of Denmark
So, it was you I saw, hanging around the gravestone in Paris, circa 1982 when it was still accessible, singing and picking flowers among the sad-eyed, stoned girls.
Be careful Suhayl, the delusional energy permeating this space could be contagious. Maybe in your next life you will be lucky to be born a ‘sad-eyed, stoned girl’ — quite a cheap shot at a fellow writer from someone of the fraternity — so you too might appreciate it? Hope the source in your mind of that remark was not a twinge of envy towards his greatness and legacy.