The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
Phil. said;
Indeed a Canary in the wharf is better than a furnished Jumbo fit for Alwaleed Bin Talal.
Very true, I remember not so long ago, on this board there was a brouhaha about the “democratic” aspirations of the Egyptians gathered in Tahrir Square; wishing to rid themselves from the tyranny of the Muslim Brotherhood government. The same pontificates seem very bashful and shy in waxing lyrical about the bright future of the Egyptians and their democracy now. Although they could have had in mind the muzzle flashes that are a plenty on the streets of the towns and cities of Egypt.
Also have you noticed our esteemed government that has only issued a slight warning for the would be tourists going to Egypt to keep away from the trouble spots! In direct contrast to those lilly livered German government that has recommended its citizens to refrain from travelling to Egypt.
Bums on seats laddy bums on seats! The tour operators cannot change their cheap arrangements with the Egyptian hotels and resort owners, so best to put profits before lives as any full blooded
fascistcorporate friendly government would do.Finally Phil. steady on, your invitation for a meeting, can land you in the hot soup, and may end up getting a visit from the relevant branch of the police to charge you with; demanding a meeting with menaces! Also you could land with the costs of dry cleaning of the attire that was soiled at your menacing demands to meet anywhere!!!
“Finally Phil. steady on, your invitation for a meeting, can land you in the hot soup!”
I did not mean in any way to threaten violence. I apologise unreservedly that it was interpreted so. My point was to mock people who hold strong opinions behind an avatar. I suspect most online secrecy only hides banality.
John Dross writes –
“It’s quite a novelty for someone who’s fought against racism much of his adult life to be accused of being a racist.”
A classic holier-than-thou pronouncement so typical of the Eministas. While many on the modern left waste no opportunity to parade their “anti-Racist” credentials (their championing of the superb long-distance runner, Mo Farah, as a sort of icon of racial equality being one particularly nauseating example), they still have that itsy-bitsy little problem when it comes to da Joooooos.
So, in order to address this situation, and in light of the moderators’ pleas to make contributions more constructive, I thought I would suggest, as your friendly diversity awareness officer, the implementation of a Jewish History Awareness Week on this blog, during which we will discuss aspects of Jewish history, notably the Expulsions, Pogroms and the Holocaust (no denial, please!), as well as, on a more positive note, Jewish culture and religion, Jewish contributions to the Arts and Sciences, and perhaps, if we have time, we can devote one of our late-night musical interludes to a sing-along of Yiddish folk music. And if anyone wants to meet up, we could even arrange a tour of a synagogue and enjoy an evening of Jewish-themed food and drink together, where we can share and discuss all the things we’ve learned. What do you say?
Suhayl Saadi 17 Aug, 2013 – 12:36 pm
“What is meaningless about saying that the Egyptian uprising, which began in 2011, but which actually began around 2006-8 in the trade unions, etc., has been betrayed?”
Well may I suggest you sort of approach an answer in your question. That you felt compelled to further qualify the statment suggests it was too vuague to start with. Who admits to betraying the people?
“Who admits to betraying the people?” Phil.
Please just make your point, Phil. Imagine for a moment that that I am three years old. Thank you.
And congratulations to Passerby, who at 12:40 pm managed an entire five paragraphs without mention of ziofuckwits, ziofuckwittery, or ziofuckistan. If that isn’t constructive, I don’t know what is! 🙂
Anon
“And if anyone wants to meet up, we could even arrange a tour of a synagogue and enjoy an evening of Jewish-themed food and drink together, where we can share and discuss all the things we’ve learned. What do you say?”
Ok, ok point made. I apologise again my invitation came with perceived menaces.
My invitation was actually sincere in that I would have gone and met him. However, I admit it was somewhat insincere because I was confident he would not meet.
Just for the record villager my Jewish friends, by and large, do not support the Israeli occupation of Palestine. My last employer was Jewish and I have a lot of respect for her and I have told her so. As a Christian I worship at a church. To be a Christian you cannot hate Jews since the head of the church is Jewish who taught to love one’s neighbour. If you and Habbabkuk are not one of the same you should do something about your mutual, sickening and back-scratching admiration for one another, a pursuit that leaves objectivity creased up in laughter at your smarminess.
Suhayl Saadi; “They are good only for killing their own people.”
(“they” being the Egyptian Army; armed, supported & directed by the West.)
Habbu-Clown; “I do want to express agreement with that point (one which I’ve long held)”
Sounds rather like an extract from a EDL meeting !
Suhayl Saadi 17 Aug, 2013 – 1:04 pm
“Please just make your point, Phil. Imagine for a moment that that I am three years old. Thank you.”
I was trying to say that such generalisations, would require you both to have a mutual understanding that the ‘egyptian spring’ had an intention to be btrayed. And without identifying the intent bemoaning betrayal is meaningless.
Okay, thanks, Phil.
“Sounds rather like an extract from a EDL meeting !” Macky.
What on earth are you talking about? Is everyone on crack cocaine this morning?
@ Phil
Just for the record, I didn’t read your invitation as a menace of any kind.
And, although I’m in none of the places Suhayl jokingly mentioned, I am somewhere rather far at present..
“Is everyone on crack cocaine this morning?”
Well I certainly am.
And other people are high on weed. Ask habby/villager because he/they are always pointing it out.
@ Suhayl
Macky’s comments show that I was right about him being a corporal, wielding a big stick. Pure bone from the neck up. Disregard.
Phil Said;
Mate I was jesting, in fact I am fully aware of your good intentions (note to GCHQ, NSA, or any other organ wigging on us all, rightly so I should add) however I am glad you have clarified your intentions, just in case. As in these days of political repression that two and two makes five. We must all do and say as our dear leaders prescribe, or we would be landing in hot soup.
Although I cannot help but to chuckle at the notions of Brits on their way to Egypt getting frisked, made walk in bear feet and strip down to their knickers just before they board their ride to Egypt. Only for them to arrive at the last gun fight in OK corral. such is the absurdity of the Zeitgeist that has accommodated the ziofucwits to the degrees of absurd, in the way of offering the said ziofuckwits murderous creed a cloak of plausibility/tolerability.
###
Macky said;
Mere inconsequential detail, old boy! What you see is the birth pangs of a democratic Egypt confronting the tyrannies of the Islam ists.
Awfully quiet for the same characters who were cheering the birth of the new democracy in Egypt, in validation of the spring that has turned out to be a hellishly hot summer with bouts of hot lead raining, and hot gusts of gun powder exploding. all in the way of progressive democracy that loves gays, and has nothing against LGBT ABCDEFG etc. The slight disinfection of thousands of pesky Mulsim Brotherhood supporters is the price of the omelette eggs etc.
John, I didn’t have you in mind when identifying the Jewish problem that so many of the “anti-racists” here suffer from. I think you are a misguided fellow, but on the whole, probably a good egg.
“my Jewish friends, by and large, do not support the Israeli occupation of Palestine.”
Which makes me wonder, why do Komodo (“bern(stein)”), Mary (“Caprilles/Radonski”), Fedup (“masters of the universe”) have such a problem with Jews?
[Mod: repeated accusations of racism, and for people to ‘bugger off’, without any other content, are probably not helpful. Removed.]
@ Phil
“And other people are high on weed. Ask habby/villager because he/they are always pointing it out.”
_______________
Only in respect of Ben Franklin, the Californian Sage. My belief is based on the fact that reading his posts is like trying to gaze through a dense cloud of smoke.
[Mod: Sorry, removing – commentary about people’s posts rather than addressing the points they have made]
“Only in respect of Ben Franklin, the Californian Sage. My belief is based on the fact that reading his posts is like trying to gaze through a dense cloud of smoke.” Habbabkuk
In a sauna, with the sound of the sympathetic strings of a sitar in the background. And the voice of a guru, intoning, again and again, “But who am I? For I know nothing…”
[from ‘Head’, the Monkees]
Salvia divinorum (“Seer’s sage”) is, in fact, widely smoked for its mind-altering, hallucinogenic effects.
I believe Komodo once bragged that he had smoked more weed than another contributor had had hot dinners, which might explain a few things.
[Mod: posts made exclusively to suggest sock-puppetting are discouraged. Posts made to attack someone for what views they might hold about who is sock-puppetting are even more unhelpful. Removed]
Fedup,
Heh, you’re welcome to describe a view as “bollocks” if it is meant without malice. It’s sharp words aimed at people that I tend to do the Moderator’s Glare at! Anyway…
I wonder whether you are confusing right-wing libertarianism with mainstream Republican views? Yes, of course the standard Fox News approach to “sensible politics” is capitalism for the poor, socialism for the rich – this is widely known and hardly worthy of further comment. Hence, right-wing pundits and politicians bleat about small government but don’t notice the burgeoning military-industrial-corporate complex (my eyebrows are slightly raised against my own excessively hyphenated construction). All of this, I think we would agree, amounts as an attack on the poor and sick, and a comfy ride for the rich.
However, I am genuinely of the view that right-wing libertarians would slash government spending dramatically, specifically including large chunks allocated to military and security spending. There would simply be no money allocated to expensive declared wars and clandestine ops – one cannot magic money out of secret slush funds if the slush funds themselves have been abolished.
Thus, if right-wing libertarians could mount a convincing and principled case against the status quo in both parties, I think a sustained media-driven backlash would be mounted against them. They would be seen as “dangerous” as the ‘reds under the bed’, as a large number of well-fed rumps would suddenly have to work for their ill-gotten and often socially destructive gains. However, how such propaganda would work would be interesting – they can hardly be dismissed as anti-capitalists or communists.
In any case, it is worth considering how revolutionary and radical the effects could be: it would (rightly) tear apart the mechanisms of unlimited bail-outs, military spending, ubiquitous surveillance and mass private health insurance, whilst (unfairly) creating new social divisions amongst the poor.
Suhayl: “In a sauna…”
That would be a steam room Suhayl not a sauna, but you’ll be relieved to hear that i did have a laugh at the imagery…
Suhayl Saadi; “What on earth are you talking about?”
Innocence does not become you; no need for crack cocaine, as it’s hardly the first time you have projected stereotype racist memes such as Muslims are good only for killing their own people. you will acknowledge that you have been pulled up by other posters before iro your comments about Islam & Muslims.
No surprise that the Islmaic hating Habbu-Clown often rushes in praise of your posts.
(Re drugs, correct me if I’m wrong in this, & maybe not this particular time, but I sometimes get the impression that you do post when you are stoned ?)
@Jon,
I know I risk annoying you with yet another direct appeal, but I do feel that this is quite important for this Blog; is there anyway of knowing if old Posts are still active, without having to book-mark them & to keep checking back every other day ?
Macky, I understand some of your frustrations about Habbabkuk and Villager, but nevertheless it heats up the atmosphere unduly if your every post is a pop at them. Let them be, and instead let me encourage you to post something of interest (ideally a considered and substantive response to someone else’s point, so a conversation can be started).
I’m not sure why you think Suhayl is projecting ‘racist memes about Muslims’ – he is after all a Muslim himself. He has spoken out against religious fundamentalism, which is not at all the same thing. I fear you have misunderstood a great deal of his points on the other thread (which is well worth reading if you have not already).
Edit: just spotted your question about easily checking whether older posts are active. We’d need an all-comments thread, which is likely very possible with the software, but would take some time to set up. You could always set up an RSS reader and subscribe to posts as they come up (some may even auto-subscribe all threads – it would be worth trying a few).
Jon
I suggest you make a basic reformist mistake when you suggest libertarians might shake up the US war machine. Power corrupts so relying on leaders to not be corrupted is a pipe dream. Some of the most murderous corruptiuon has been by the well intended.
You are asking politicians to give away power. When did that ever happen?
Jon – Ron Paul and the “Ronulans”, or “Paulistinians”, as they are affectionately known to mainstream Republicans, are true conservatives of the sort I would like to see elected in this country. Sadly, when the issue of Ron Paul was briefly raised here during the US presidential elections, some of the Murrayistas took it upon themselves to drag up some pamphlet supposedly written with his consent about 3, 000 years ago and which contained a racist comment, and dismissed him for it.
Which reminds me of an excellent and serious conservative contributor we once had here (Tom Welsh, was it?), who clearly found himself in inferior company and departed after Murrayistas competed with each other to post the most revolting things they coukd think of about the death of an old lady with dementia.
Good post, by the way.
[Mod: removed post made entirely to insult]