The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
Sofia; Spider builds a hammock……more rest equals lesser need for calories.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub_a2t0ZfTs
A poster was created around that time as a parody. Two eggs frying in a skillet next to some breakfast meat….
“This is your brain with a side of bacon”
“…err…I didn’t effectively say anything of the sorts. Perhaps you’re mixing the right to self determination/civic nationalism of countries like Wales and Scotland with the deeply racist eugenicist Anglo Zionist imperialists who actually do believe in the concept of a master race?
Or maybe you have trouble with the concept of equality between countries? ”
Or maybe you haven’t got a clue what “self determination” means.
The Welsh and Scots are entitled to British passports and to vote in British elections, they have self determination just like everyone else in Britain. It is people who have self determination, not countries and as far as I can see the only difference between someone in Wales, Scotland or England is imaginary lines on a map. A person in Wales has all the same rights as a person in England.
@Technicolour – “At the same time English people I met who live there were complaining about a rising anti-English sentiment which stops them from getting jobs. Have no idea how representative they were but felt sad for them, and sorry for the inevitable rise in nationalism caused by a Westminster parliament which for decades has been making decisions rightly loathed by vast swathes of the electorate – as well as England’s awful history in those places”
I can’t speak for all of Wales of course but if the people you met are complaining of a rising anti-English sentiment which stops them from getting jobs, I would suggest that indeed you should feel sad for their considerable ignorance and delusion. EU and other labour laws mean that the opposite is usually true-no preference or priority can be given to Welsh citizens for jobs, which technically means that the citizens of Wales, who are suffering great unemployment, and with many areas of Wales living in some of the most deprived and poverty stricken areas of Europe, are the ones being discriminated against.
There are some limited jobs which require people to be able to speak Welsh (and English), especially in public bodies, health, education obviously (as it is taught in schools) and law, but these are not that numerous and the people you mention could overcome this by learning it themselves anyhow. Wales is a bilingual country.Language rights and the equal status of Welsh and English are enshrined in acts of law. Maybe the people you met have trouble comprehending that they are in another country with its own language, parliament and legislator, and somhehow expect everything to be the same as it is in deepest Berkshire or Tunbridge Wells – in other words a deeply unpleasant and ingrained colonial attitude.
If you want to come accross the vulgar wrong kind of nationalism you will find it a number of these people who move to Wales and complain about it being too Welsh – probably the same types that move to the Costa del Sol and grumble and complain when things get a bit ‘too Spanish’..
@Ben. 3 40pm
I get the sense you aren’t taking this seriously enough, despite your eggsellent clip.
“Sofia; Spider builds a hammock……more rest equals lesser need for calories.”
As I recall, it all went well for the cannabis spider until winter came. She still ended up as the crack cocaine spider’s bitch, just to keep warm. She clearly didn’t save enough of those calories!
Here’s a man from the DEA to put you right:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdmuVS7O6FY
@Fred “It is people who have self determination, not countries and as far as I can see the only difference between someone in Wales, Scotland or England is imaginary lines on a map. A person in Wales has all the same rights as a person in England”
Imaginary lines on a map seems like a bit of a contradiction in terms to me Fred. Maybe a bit of a look at history and the present devolved law making situation in the respective countries might enlighten your views. I’m not particularly one to go looking for differences but the mere fact that you can’t see that there are differences is the reason why all these countries haven’t yet reached a healthy state of equilibrium and mutual respect. No reason why that can’t happen though
Sofia; I am always serious about drugs, and that informative interview gives me pause.
That DEA agent probably has my stash, cuz he clearly is frying an egg.
Michael Grunwald gets spanked for tweeting that he would like to represent USG if drone takes out Assange.
https://twitter.com/MikeGrunwald
A strange coincidence that The Queen is being shown on the BBC at the moment. The stage in the film has just been reached where B.Liar and the royal family have been awakened to be told about Diana’s car crash and subsequent death.
It’s on ITV not the BBC!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Queen_(film)
The “attacks” you say. Evidently you have not been reading the endless cod’s wallop published by Suhaly akin to the take of a fourteen year old teenager anaesthetised on MTV, and hypnotropic bollocks delivered in single syllable sound bites by the nice man on the telly:
This in the face of the current blood bath that is bathing the streets of the towns and cities in Egypt. The oh so LBGT the short hand for sex/sex/sex/sex evidently is very important for the quality of life of the poor bastards in Egypt who are getting; shot to death, burnt to death, starved to death, or tortured to death. In deed if a man cannot shove whatever he pleases up his orifices then the system of governance that forbids such, must be replaced by a Western corporate friendly mass murdering blood thirsty regime pronto. There you go best to be killed by the bullets bought form the Western corporates than stopping the trade in cheap dildos by the Chinese corporates.
I am sorry that I find coital politics befitting the coital minds of the wankers who are out to discredit the Muslims in any which way they can. The irony of ironies, Jews of the 1920/30s have been replaced by the Muslims of the 2000s same tactics, same vitriol, same hatred. When will the fucking West stop its venomous politics of mass murder, discrimination, and hate? Never, because of the luminaries the likes of Suhayl and his echelon of supporters.
Whilst your oh so liberal values are offended because a man or woman cannot practice peculiar coital practices, the same fucking sense of indignation somehow is blind to the blood bath that is unfolding in Egypt. Yes you are all responsible for this bloodbath. When you could have deterred the culprits at the roots of the current unfolding evil in Egypt with a resounding rejection, you all joined in and piled on the MB and its failures to achieve total democracy in about 11 months! This period is deemed long enough to reconstruct the constructs of oppression built over the last two hundred years.
You accuse me of having not explained my position, that is true, because I have also not handed my resume too, and all the while I reject your oh so sophisticated take of the rights of man. However you cannot accuse me of not stating time and again, respect the belief systems of the Muslims as you would of Jews. This itself being antisem….. for mentioning the “Jews” or equating the said “_ews” with Muslims, that is the extent of the corruption that is peddled as enlightenment around here and elsewhere.
Dwakins waxes lyrical and reels against Muslims, the same luminary then shuts up and pays fealty to the Jews. Strange as it may be there is not one universal god but many fucking gods, and the fact that moon worshipping Muslums have their own god …… This is the level of debate.
I say it again, as the mid east stands after a century of mendacious mismanagement, interference, aerial bombing campaigns, invasions, clandestine operations, …… Yhe only civic constructs left in place are those with any religious affiliation and due to the majority being Muslims these constructs are Islamic. The organisation of people is frightening the owners of the world because united these Muslims can win, hence the attacks at the roots of the constructs of their unity; Islam. What is so fucking difficult to understand this?
There is always the remote but delicious possibility of the bastard ginger one kicking off if he is ever convinced that mum was killed by grandma.
Four members of an Irish family are missing in Cairo, supposedly in jail.
http://news.sky.com/story/1130161/egypt-crisis-irish-siblings-in-cairo-jail
Phil; What has happened to those boys? I wonder if they ever ask themselves when decisions are made…..
“What would Mum do?”
Zounds !! Sgt Sunshine returns……(sofia-have some serious Cheetos)
http://www.drugwarrant.com/2013/08/a-different-world/
Chris Jones: “Maybe the people you met have trouble comprehending that they are in another country with its own language, parliament and legislator” – yes, I think they did. Most of them had moved there about 20 years ago and, as I say, I didn’t consider them representative. Thanks for interesting reply.
Suhayl: yes, politically v important, just wondering about timing…
“Imaginary lines on a map seems like a bit of a contradiction in terms to me Fred. Maybe a bit of a look at history and the present devolved law making situation in the respective countries might enlighten your views. I’m not particularly one to go looking for differences but the mere fact that you can’t see that there are differences is the reason why all these countries haven’t yet reached a healthy state of equilibrium and mutual respect. No reason why that can’t happen though”
Your devolved parliaments would actually give you more self determination than the English rather than less though wouldn’t it?
“I can’t speak for all of Wales of course but if the people you met are complaining of a rising anti-English sentiment which stops them from getting jobs, I would suggest that indeed you should feel sad for their considerable ignorance and delusion. EU and other labour laws mean that the opposite is usually true-no preference or priority can be given to Welsh citizens for jobs, which technically means that the citizens of Wales, who are suffering great unemployment, and with many areas of Wales living in some of the most deprived and poverty stricken areas of Europe, are the ones being discriminated against.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/3708345/The-top-ten-most-deprived-areas-of-Britain.html
“What has happened to those boys?”
I really know nothing of those boys but seeing as it’s the royals I will enjoy a moment of speculation.
Forget the bald one who is lined up to be king – he’s in hook line and sinker and knows what questions to never ask. But maybe the ginger one is a different kettle of fish. He has no genetic ties to the the family. He may have a rebel gene considering his parents. I can imagine events sprialling if he is convinced. It might not be so easy to throw him in the tower. Can you imagine the uproar if he dies in a car/helicopter crash?
Fedup
It seems you’re caught in a bind with western identity politics. There are similar problems in US/UK in terms of developing a unitary narrative to counter elites.
Might be better to develop an argument which takes account of this problem.
I like your idea of Islam as the only vehicle for transformation. That makes sense.
You’re certainly ahead of us on that. We no longer have any vehicle for transformation at all, or rather, we’ve too many vehicles running about every which way, crashing into one another.
The elites love chaos.
Paul Flynn MP is on P Charles’ case again.
‘Prince Charles should not have staff working in the civil service if he believes in “royal political neutrality”, a prominent Labour MP has said.
MPs are to raise the matter in the House of Commons after it emerged that two aides working for the heir to the throne have been seconded to two Whitehall departments.
One was sent to the Cabinet Office for two years, while another worked in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs for 14 months.
According to the Sunday Times, some of the ministers working in these departments did not know about the appointments.
Paul Flynn, Labour MP for Newport West, said the secondments suggested the prince was a “constitutional crisis in waiting”.
“Planting his civil service moles proves [an] intention to abandon royal political neutrality,” he said.’
/..
Prince Charles criticised for ‘planting moles’ in government departments
MPs are to raise the matter in the Commons after the heir to the throne was described as a ‘constitutional crisis in waiting’
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/aug/18/prince-charles-moles-government-departments
Fedup (at 4:59pm, today): In the face of the bloodbath in Egypt, you seem really quite obsessed with LGBT matters. Could you explain to us precisely why that might be?
Technicolour (5:15pm, today): Wrt Diana ‘revelation’, yes, very good point. I too wondered about the timing.
Herbie 18 Aug, 2013 – 5:34 pm
“I like your idea of Islam as the only vehicle for transformation. That makes sense.”
I disgree. All you do is replace one set of nutters with another set of nutters. That’s my analysis.
“… you all joined in and piled on the MB and its failures to achieve total democracy in about 11 months!” Fedup.
The evidence suggests that, contrary to establishing democracy, the Muslim Brotherhood Govt not only continued and intensified Mubarak’s rule-by-secret-policeman’s diktat, but also expeditiously was enacting a clerical fascist state on the Egyptian people. They proved unable to rise above the totalitarian template of their Islamist ideology. Many of the people who voted them in, as well as those who did not, realised what they’d got, and revolted.
Phil, at 5:49pm:
“All you do is replace one set of nutters with another set of nutters.”
Yes, I agree with you.
I do not understand the direction of much of the discussion about egypt. It seems to me the arrogance of empire lives in liberal pontifications about what is best for those natives overseas.
Who cares about what you think is best for egyptians. You have not got a fucking clue and what you say makes no difference to anything.
Worried for the egyptians? Want to change the world? Then focus on overthrowing the murderers we vote into power.
Phil
“I disgree. All you do is replace one set of nutters with another set of nutters. That’s my analysis.”
Don’t forget Phil, and Suhayl too, that democracy emerged in the US on the back of Protestant nutters.
You work with what you have.
Herbie
“that democracy emerged in the US on the back of Protestant nutters”
The irrestistible retort to that is: How’s that working out?
Yeah I know, Phil. They took their eye off the ball.
Mass propaganda, poor education and the transition from reason to emotions amongst the masses all helped too.
The point anyway is that whilst these Protestants had all sorts of nutty ideas, the kernel of their belief was a deep anti authoritarianism and belief in individual liberty, and despite the nuttiness, it produced democracy and enlightenment.
@Fedup
That korean film is well made. Very interesting. Nothing new and little (but some) to disagree with. What strikes me as odd is the story of it’s provenance. Maybe I have misunderstood but why would koreans give transparently korean propaganda to some foreign blogger to release?
@Herbie
“They took their eye off the ball.”
OK so any other examples which did not go tits up? Cause I cannot think of any of the top of my head which causes me to question the methodology.
I do tend to over simplify and my dreams are easily dismissed as extreme wishfull thinking from the truly insane but I am past trying to reconfigure demonstrably failed systems. It’s a trap we must escape. We need imagination.
Just to be clear. I do not want religious leaders. Nor military. Nor royal. Nor marxist. Nor secular…