The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
ben
“not all are rich.”
OK ben bang goes my point. Maybe. What is that list? Presumably worth at time of entering?
Sorry. Here’s link http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Net_worth_of_United_States_Senators_and_Representatives
I wish they detailed everyone because ‘average’ is so deceptive.
Chris Jones
18 Aug, 2013 – 2:19 am
“I hope Craig will be hoping for the same independence for Cymru (that’s Wales to yous monoglots)…”
“…yous…”? Isn’t that a Scottish word (Glaswegian even)?
“…proponents of Tibetan and Palestinian freedom…”
Chris Jones, are you suggesting that Wales is less free or on a par with Tibet and Palestine?
Go and chew some leeks!
Pushin’ back. Cue the attack on Greenwald.
“At 6:30 am this morning my time – 5:30 am on the East Coast of the US – I received a telephone call from someone who identified himself as a “security official at Heathrow airport.” He told me that my partner, David Miranda, had been “detained” at the London airport “under Schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act of 2000.”
David had spent the last week in Berlin, where he stayed with Laura Poitras, the US filmmaker who has worked with me extensively on the NSA stories. A Brazilian citizen, he was returning to our home in Rio de Janeiro this morning on British Airways, flying first to London and then on to Rio. When he arrived in London this morning, he was detained.”
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/18/david-miranda-detained-uk-nsa
Mmm. I am suspicious of such details. Presumably that list is some reflection of tax returns rather than real wealth.
For example I quickly looked at DeMint who is listed as having $16000. DeMint was a successfull businessman who raised $7m for his campaign to get in the senate. He was consider far right and he now runs a thinktank.
So the first ‘poor’ sentaor looked at is in no way poor or representing the poor. I think the wiki list is lies and tax returns.
Phil and Ben,
Not all politicians are money-rich and greedy:
Jose Mujica: The world’s ‘poorest’ president –
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20243493
“There is always the remote but delicious possibility of the bastard ginger one kicking off if he is ever convinced that mum was killed by grandma.”
________________
A filthy comment made by a thoroughly filthy fellow.
“Oh Fred, you dissapoint me. I have no problem with any facts. I merely asked for a link to back up your statement so that I could take a genuinely interested look. It rather makes me think you just made it up.I don’t see what your touchiness is based on – England’s poverty bothers me as much as my own country’s.Trying to whittle it down to ‘nationalist’ name calling is very lazy. Aren’t you yourself a nationalist albeit a British one? (and rather a non tolerant one by the sounds of it) A shame that you feel the need for such grumpiness but there we are.”
I posted a link to back up what I said, you can do your own googling Sunshine.
I’m not a British Nationalist, can’t stand the BNP.
Phil; Maybe this is a little better.
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2013/01/new-congress-new-and-more-wealth.html
Rouge; Impressive. Former guerilla/leftist. Until there are more like him, we must keep our swords bright.
Phil, Ben, have you read the Book Triumphant plutocracy; the story of American public life from 1870 to 1920 by R.F. Pettigrew?
The owners used to employ their lawyers to get the legislations they needed to pass into statute. The lawyers then got too rich and began to have their own lackeys to do the job, and now some of the nouveau riche don’t bother employing lawyers or their people and get in for themselves.
BTW what is the brewing fight among the owners about?
Any ideas?
Diana
assassinationdeath to be investigated based on new evidence emerging.MPs demand inquiry into revelations that
Prince Charles sent staff to work in Whitehall
Lots of posts to comment on in the 24 hour period since I last looked; firstly, and because racism is not a charge that I make lightly, there are the several long posts from Suhayl Saadi trying to clarify his Egyptian position; firstly a reminder of his original Post;
“This is the handiwork of the glorious Egyptian military. They can’t confront, for example, Israel on any level. In the face of Israeli troops, they run like rabbits. They are good only for killing their own people.”
I took exception to this because I invariable come across this line of argumentation whenever I debate badge carrying Islamophobes. This illogical reasoning deliberately removes the gigantic elephant, or more accurately, the gigantic octopus, called the West, whose nefarious tentacles are behind virtually every movement of virtually every Arab government regime/dictatorship etc. I say “deliberately” deliberately (!), because once Western interference is blanked out as the cause of the chaos & mayhem in the ME, the Islamophobes trot out their standard stereotype racist memes, such as the mess in the ME proves Muslims are uncivilized, Islam is a religion of intolerance, etc, and that old favourite “Muslims are good only for killing their own people”, practically word for word the last sentence of the Post quoted above. The question being, is Suhayl Saadi just a careless & sloppy writer, or is he being very careful & particular as to the words he choses to put down ?
Before looking at the newer Posts, let’s return to the above quoted, and notice the Israeli reference; no qualifying caveats to put the virtual Super Power status of the Israeli military in context, instead we get two short sentences that every Zionist Supremacist worth their salt will have also uttered at some point.
Here’s an extract from one of the newer Posts talking about Muslim armies in general;
“wetting themselves when faced with, say, Western forces. I think this would be a view shared by many millions of Muslims, Arabs, etc. around the world”
That’s an extremely inaccurate & outrageously deeply offensive remark to make; far from being share by “many millions of Muslims”, the undeniable courage of the poorly armed Iraqi & Afghani Resistances to the combined might of the World’s best equipped armies, has been celebrated with pride & glory by their fellow Muslims. Again this is exactly the sort of demeaning comment you would expect to hear from an Islamophobe and/or arch-Zionist.
Most of his new Posts contain a lot of comments about Islam, which actually betray a real lack of understanding, not just of Islam itself, but of Religion, and I can’t help but think of a certain Salman Rushdie when reading such stuff. His political musing don’t generally fare much better, as exemplified by the oxy-moronic;
“The peoples of Arab countries do have agency. They are ruled/led by various forms of fascist.”
However enough of pointing out the obvious to those who cannot what is in front of them thanks to misplaced & undue loyalty for such an established longtime resident; a quick word about the drugs issue; I only raised it as Suhayl had initially reminded me of it by exclaiming that I must be on cracked cocaine, but I was seriously earnest in my question to him, as I know that he has made many previous drug references, and there are times when his Posts display a strange drifting quality; it was not a judgmental accusation, but an enquiry out of intellectual curiosity.
Would like to comment on some other Posts, but my other half is literally pulling the lap-top from me !
Rouge 18 Aug, 2013 – 9:46 pm
Not all politicians are money-rich and greedy: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20243493
Yes very excellent to see. Thanks.
@Fred “I’m not a British Nationalist, can’t stand the BNP”
– But you do believe in the right to British self determination?
@ Doug Scorgie
Have been reading Craig’s blog from a long time back. Read all his posts which are always good and to the point.
My recollection is that comments used to be more relevant to the original post and when they deviated from that were mostly made up of substantive discussion on whatever new topic had been introduced.
When I check out the blog now I find a large proportion of the comments consist of commenters slagging each other and a lot of the rest of the stuff is all over the place.
If the blog has been trolled the troll would appear to have done a very good job.
Another post from Craig will likely not sort out this case for treatment but it would, at least temporarily, ease the pressure of 12 pages of comments, which can be daunting for all but the most dedicated of followers.
Póló 18 Aug, 2013 – 10:09 pm
“12 pages of comments, which can be daunting for all but the most dedicated of followers.”
I assume that anything past page 1 is only ever for the most dedicated!
@ Polo :
“My recollection is that comments used to be more relevant to the original post and when they deviated from that were mostly made up of substantive discussion on whatever new topic had been introduced.
When I check out the blog now I find a large proportion of the comments consist of commenters slagging each other”
_______________
You are obviously a “veteran” reader of this blog and I, as some occasionally remind us, am a relative newcomer and so I will take you at your word for what you say in the first para above.
But to what would you ascribe the phenomenon you describe in your second para? If true, what are the reasons, in your opinion?
@doug scorgie
“…yous…”? Isn’t that a Scottish word (Glaswegian even)?
not necessarily but then Glasgow does comes from early Welsh and around half the English words you use are French…
“Chris Jones, are you suggesting that Wales is less free or on a par with Tibet and Palestine?”
Certainly on a par – but far far subtler. Its called soft power
“Go and chew some leeks!”
I’m of mixed race too – do you want me to go back to bongo bongo land as well? Maybe swing on a few trees and eat some bananas whilst I’m at it?
“I assume that anything past page 1 is only ever for the most dedicated!”
I know Craig says his traffic is multiples of commentators. A new thread brings on a flood of new persons, apparently lurking in the background as though waiting for something to happen.
All you lurkers; Please don’t be shy.
Dedicated to Craig’s lurkers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efxF5cGf1NA
Glenn_uk
18 Aug, 2013 – 2:44 am
“Our resources have largely been stripped, and our language virtually destroyed. Our people and culture are mocked…” [By who Glen]?
So you are a Welsh nationalist Glen that believes everyone living in Wales should speak Welsh and maintain a Welsh “culture” (whatever that is, perhaps you could explain).
Only 19% of the population of Wales speak Welsh and only 12% fluently.
The population includes:
Indian 17,256
Pakistani 12,229
Bangladeshi 10,687
Chinese 13,638
Caribbean 11,887
And probably a lot of Englanders as well
Are you suggesting that all these residents of Wales should be mandated to speak Welsh and eat leeks?
Herbie-ud-din: “I like your idea of Islam as the only vehicle for transformation. That makes sense.”
Well, goodness gracious me!
Time to call the doctor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3A7B6qtUpU
Fedup;
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/princess-diana-death-cops-probe-2179191
What is Nightingales complicity? Did he shoot out the tires? Why would they need a sniper for such an easy task?
Villager; What’s on your playlist?
@ Habbabkuk
Just an observation.
@ various, re the “murder” of Princess Diana.
Look, conspiracy theories are popular for a variety of reasons : they appear to confirm the (various, depending on the alleged conspiracy) obsessions of some; others are pleasantly thrilled by the thought that we are manipulated by dark forces; they – like counterfactual history – provide some innocent fun for many; and finally, they offer the chance of making a little money (cf. the author cited by one poster somewhere above).
That said, every conspiracy theory should be looked at in the light of at least three criteria, if that’s the proper word : feasibility/efficency; “cui bono”; and discovery.
The conspiracy theory that Princess Diana was “murdered” would seem to fail on all three counts.
Feasibility/efficency : too many people would have been involved and there would have been too many variables. The driver would have to have been part of the conspiracy – and therefore a potential volonteer for suicide. No guarantee that the intended victim would in fact die (after all, the bodyguard survived). Easier and surer methods of bumping someone off.
“Cui bono” : self-explanatory. The reputation of the Royal family? The couple would have divorced sooner or later anyway. Even if Priness Diana had been pregnant (a poster has claimed this, above – sources?), so what? It would have been sufficient for the divorce to be brought forward and in any event a disclaimer of paternity would automatically have ruled out any succession worries even in the absence of Princes William and Harry.
Discovery : it is in the nature of conspiracies that they tend to come out into the open rather quickly : someone talks, writes or confesses or evidence emerges through the occurence of another, apparently unrelated event. I would put this conspiracy theory into the same category as that relating to the assassination of President Kennedy, where lengthy and endless speculation has remained just that, with not a shred of real evidence having emerged.
@ Polo
I realise it was just an observation, but do you really have no thoughts on why? Or perhaps no thoughts you’re willing to share lest they offend?
I’ll be Dingo damned. It’s a minor miracle. Cogent argument with logic and no less, aplomb.
We must embrace the new Havasack who actually has a thought process and methodology, at least in this instance.
HUZZAHHHHHHH !
Fedup,
Yes, I’ve read Suhayl’s posts, and find them considered and cogent. Yours on the other hand are indecipherable prose that most people find hard to make head or tail of, though I rather suspect that is the whole point.
Ah, right. That is odd though – why post here if you are consciously refusing to explain yourself? I previously thought it was a mode of your posting that you were, in some sense, unaware of how much you were dodging the question.
I fancy trying a different approach with you, Fedup, and I hope you’ll indulge me. I genuinely would like to know what you think, and I suspect I have an idea already. So, let me guess:
* You believe the Muslim Brotherhood should still be in power
* You don’t believe the second revolution in Egypt carries sufficient weight to legitimately oust the government
* You believe that LGBT rights are decadent and/or morally wrong and/or a mechanism of Western destabilisation
* If someone is punished for loving a member of the same sex (officially sanctioned harassment, jail time, torture, disappearance or capital punishment) then that’s alright by you, since they disobeyed the law
* You are in favour of a one-party Islamic state, in which the traditional methods of electoral choice and recall are abolished
* If an Islamic government such as the Brotherhood over-reach and become authoritarian, such as with the presidential decrees, that’s an acceptable cost on the road to Sharia
If I am close, then you might as well say – why be embarrassed by your views?
“The undeniable courage of the poorly armed Iraqi & Afghani Resistances…” Macky.
These are paramilitaries. My point – which surely would have been crystal clear to any literate person – was that one of the reasons why Islamism has gained credence among the people, post-1967 defeat of Arab armies/Arab Nationalism, is because, while regular Arab armies have proved unable to face even the silk handkerchief of an Israeli belly-dancer, the Islamist paramilitaries (Hizbollah, the Iraqi Resistance, the Afghan ‘Mujaheddin’, the ‘Taliban’, etc.), whatever else they are or have done, have stood up, sometimes successfully, to Western forces.
I thought that was common knowledge.
“I debate badge carrying Islamophobes…” Macky.
They have badges? I see. Do you have a badge, too? It is so very amusing (in the Queen Victoria sense) that so many funny (white) people seem to enjoy indulging themselves, wearing badges and telling me off for not being ‘Muslim’ enough.
I politely asked people to stop attacking me personally because it is simply a convenient diversion and possibly a reflection of something more sinister. I am sorry if I am discomfiting you by questioning some of your fondly-held myths.
I simply will pose one very simple question to Macky:
Macky, do you support clerical fascism?
Thank you for your time.