The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
Hi Ben, well moving on from Peter Sellers at his best to Shades of Deep Purple-Hush
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1PNvopXjbg
And Hendrix playing Machine Gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNEuQdFC-_Y
If only he could show up in Egypt and play a massive effing concert there, perhaps with Lennon and Harrison in tow….
@Phil “I am suggesting the senate was expressly created to retain power in the hands of the wealthy. It was set up by the wealthy and has only ever been populated by the wealthy. Such simple observations marry with the governments behaviour and shatter all the verbosity that talks of democracy”
There may be elements of truth to that but this does not detract from the fact that the constitution was a very well worked out piece of protection (although not perfect) for the new Republic which protected individuals from tyranny and from the over meddling of government and others in power in the people’s private affairs and wealth. The federal reserve and income tax changed that of course but even now the constitution can still stop the richer and/or corrupt senators and representatives from carrying out unconstituional matters although standards have obviously drastically slipped since Obama and Bush have been in power.
Constitutional Republicanism as opposed to a democratic system protects everyone, not just those chosen at the whim of a democratic/majority mob rule, which is even more open to corruption than a rich elite sitting in the Senate..
Magna Carta and the Bill of rights played a small part in the constitution and bill of rights but they were different as these two did not call for the abolishment of the monarchy – merely for rights within a monarchial system
Fred
18 Aug, 2013 – 3:58 pm
“A person in Wales has all the same rights as a person in England.”
Not so Fred, the people in Wales have a devolved government, the people in England do not.
I would recommend a book entitled, ‘Last Chance: The Middle East in the Balance’, by David Gardner, Chief Leader Writer, the Financial Times. It was published in 2009, but outlines many of the issues relevant to what is happening now.
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2009/may/30/david-gardner-last-chance
His wife is journalist, Samia Nakhoul, to whom he has dedicated the book. Here’s her web-feed:
http://blogs.reuters.com/samia-nakhoul/
@ Doug Scorgie , re Welsh speakers :
And you could have added that they are not spread more or less uniformly through the country either (relatively rare in more “developed” southern Wales, I believe).
I cannot resist quoting from Bernard Levin’s “The Pendulum Years – Britain in the 1960s”:
“Matters were not helped much by the growing insistence, borne along on the wave of nationalism, that the Welsh language must be revived and strengthened, and thought in the schools instead of dreadful foreign tongues. The fact that the vast majority of Welsh people spoke little or no Welsh and showed no desire to learn any, or to have their children learn any either, made no difference. At any rate, if it did, the difference was one which only caused complaints that Welsh children were being deprived of their cultural heritage, though the amount of genuine literature in Welsh was small, and additions to it of any merit rare. That this was the case could be seen every year at the Eisteddfod, where, amid much dressing-up and chanting, a Bardic crown was awarded to say, a schoolteacher in horn-rimmed spectacles and what he believed to be druidic robes. The crown was awarded for, as it might be, an enormous poem in rhymed octosyllabic couplets about an ancient Welsh chieftain who had done little of note other than to sell his army to the English for cash down; the peom would be discussed for a few days or weeks in a small circle in Wales, and thereafter never be seen again, nor its author heard of.”.
“But you do believe in the right to British self determination?”
I believe everyone has the right to self determination, it is a basic human right.
Britain isn’t a human though.
“If only he could show up in Egypt and play a massive effing concert there, perhaps with Lennon and Harrison in tow….”
That would be Rock N Roll Heaven, Villager.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_d5gzohHtYk
Music is the best bridge between people.
@Fred “I believe everyone has the right to self determination, it is a basic human right.Britain isn’t a human though”
– Nice, I see what you did there. But you support British independence as a sovereign state?
@ Ben Franklin
You’ll have noticed that someone or other posted on here saying that the former SAS man who offered the allegations of SAS involvement in the death of Princess Diana to the military authorities would inevitably be described as a “nutter”.
I don’t know how closely you follow the UK news, but I think that this was the same chap who was convicted for bringing back from Iraq – and keeping at home – a dangerous sidearm together with live ammunition. At the trial, his defence pleaded mitigating circumstances, namely “pyschiatric problems”. In other words – and I hope that this won’t be cosidered as …phobic and get this post deleted – a “nutter”.
Over and out, early start tomorrow!
@Chris
“but even now the constitution can still stop the richer and/or corrupt senators and representatives from carrying out unconstituional matters”
Presidental kill lists. Innocent men imprisoned and tortured without trial. Illegal wars. Arming terrorists and murderous facists states. etc etc.
If all this is ‘constitutional’ then screw constitutions.
@Ben
“Music is the best bridge between people.”
It is also a weapon. Ask noriega or watch britains got talent.
habby says:
“but I think that this was the same chap who was convicted for bringing back from Iraq – and keeping at home – a dangerous sidearm together with live ammunition.”
Nope. The chap who it’s said talked about the sas whacking Di was in fact one of the prosecution witnesses against that lad.
Hab; yes, I saw the ‘egregious’ charge of having a gun AND ammo, illegally. I certainly subscribe to the antithesis of this ‘crime’.
Phil; Music is a powerful weapon, but none so powerful and propagandistic as film.
“These are paramilitaries.”
Side-splitting semantic nonsense; armed fighting Muslims, however you label them, paramilitaries or Resistances or regular armies, are still armed fighting Muslims; do you believe that the major part of Iraqi resistance was not composed of disbanded Iraqi Army soldiers ?
“My point – which surely would have been crystal clear to any literate person”
Well this “illiterate” person would like to know on what evidential basis you have determined that the Iraqi or Afghan or Libyan or Syrian resistances are primary religious “Jihads”, rather than old fashion anti-colonial Nationalism struggles ?
“They have badges? I see.”
Evidently the Habbu-Clown has some competition in the clowning stakes.
“Macky, do you support clerical fascism?”
Only when I stopped beating my wife; (Habbu, watch out, he’s really after your clown crown !)
Flaming June
18 Aug, 2013 – 5:35 pm
“Prince Charles criticised for ‘planting moles’ in government departments; MPs are to raise the matter in the Commons after the heir to the throne was described as a ‘constitutional crisis in waiting’”
June, Prince Charles (as I’m sure you will agree) is a complete thicko. It is not him that is planting moles in government departments (he hasn’t got the brains) but his unelected handlers.
And our wonderful civil servants and government ministers play along for their own personal benefit.
A totally corrupt system.
@Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
“And you could have added that they are not spread more or less uniformly through the country either (relatively rare in more “developed” southern Wales, I believe)”
You believe wrongly but a nice try at spreading more ignorance.I wonder if you’d like to make the same uneducated bigoted comments on other minority languages or nationalities that exist in Britain? Why don’t you try Bengali or Punjabi people for example – or maybe Pakistanis? Show a bit of consistency in your ignorance.
The fact that you quote Bernard Levin says a lot though. Levin was a vile creature of the Zionist variety- well trained at Tavistock Institute and well paid by the British state to spread the bigotry and deliberate xenophobia of the type you quoted. I wander how he and others with the same paid allegiance as him would react if the same kind of thinly veiled discrimnatory nonsense was targeted at Jewish children and the teaching of Hebrew in Israel?
Ben , thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrGR-sqQpsQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkA5iImoMRs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ziSLGVQOSg
Music is the language of the Gods! String theory will prove it one day….soon!
@Phil “Presidental kill lists. Innocent men imprisoned and tortured without trial. Illegal wars. Arming terrorists and murderous facists states. etc etc
If all this is ‘constitutional’ then screw constitutions”
That’s what’s happened in recent years I agree. Under Bush and Obama especially the constitution is being blatantly and increasingly disregarded. Under a pure democracy, this would have probably started to happen on the same scale as now at least a hundred years earlier..
Villager; Thanks for the translation.
Did you know his name was actually Richard Valenzuela?
@Chris
“That’s what’s happened in recent years I agree.”
Which questions your claim that “the constitution can still stop the richer and/or corrupt senators and representatives from carrying out unconstituional matter”. It does no such thing.
You acknowledge the us constitution was designed to empower the rich, remains the preserve of the rich and fails to restrain murderous empire. Your defence of constitution seems to me undermined by reality.
Chris
“Under a pure democracy, this would have probably started to happen on the same scale as now at least a hundred years earlier..”
Sorry just took in this line after my last comment (I need to sleep).
I take it you mean things would be far worse if the constitution had not existed. That may be true. Maybe not. Alternative histories can only ever be speculation. But even if this is tru the constitution is now a failure. so dreaming of what might have been seems irrelevant.
Ben,thanks, listen to this Algerian woman, based in Paris — seen her live
ACOUSTIC THE BEST OF SOUAD MASSI 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHNexyA_0NM
@Phil – I wouldn’t say its been a failure at all – quite the opposite. But a good constitution can only survive if there are enough good people willing to protect it. Rich people are no more inherently good or bad than non rich people. The powers that have corrupted the American system are far beyond any notions of ‘selfish rich people’. Evil empire springs to mind.Who controls the money supply or non supply is the question…. and why?
Oh dear, your rhetorical Q & A really will be spoiled if I were to interfere, would it not?
You say:
Reading Suhayl’s drivel that is so thoroughly de-constructed by Macky and making a head or tail of it is indeed a child’s play. Suhayl has nothing to say that the man on the telly has not said. His constant terms of reference “Islamist Fascists”, “Clerical Fascism”, is not all that strange to the ears and eyes of those who are more comfortable to go with the flow.
In fact Suhayl is a kind of revolutionary who would sing the praises of courgette-ocracy if a bunch of mad Vegans ever rose to power. For he instinctively knows on which side he is likely to garner butter for his water biscuits and his supply of Perrier. As Ayan Hirsy Ali has done, albeit he is far less successful at it. This he admits on this thread by asking for money to go away, and indulge in his art!
Jon you have always failed to make a head or tail of my writings and vociferously stated thus, which has been cutting me to the quick. Fact that I am not understood by you or some others, has even made me stop writing forever!
However, you clearly can guess who am I? What do I think? What do I wish to see?!! This dichotomy I find strange, but hey world is a strange place. let us use your own assertions:
MB were the elected government, and for these to have been ousted at the whims of the US is the fucking negation of the very principles of the self determination.
You believe what you want, I deal in facts and not beliefs. This “2nd revolution” is a text book “Coup D’Etat: A Practical Handbook” exercise, in the wake of the first gone wrong “colour revolution” == “Arab Spring”.
If you are sex mad and want to shove sex into selling; cars, toothpaste, or inject sex into politics that is your choice. Alas the rest of the world has much more pressing difficulties such as where to find the next loaf of bread and the next pale of water? What coitus has to do with anything? You are only regurgitating the ziofucwit charges, and baseless disinformation.
Moreover your oh so secular revolution has so far killed hundreds of Egyptians and has jailed thousands and is busy torturing thousands of Egyptians none of whom so much as even, have goosed the next pilgrim along. These poor bastards were only demonstrating for self determination.
You are assuming a heck of lot there, purely mendacious charge intent on resurrection of the fucking worn out, rickety skeleton of the fucking Austrian painter and push home the evils of Islam, as in the Pavlov dog bell/whistle.
Adding the foreign word just for good measures/effect. = Tradition
Sahria could mean:
law, canon, legislation, code, dispensation, and yes also religious law.
Would you want Egyptians to use Western traditions, laws, way of life?
Why should the Egyptians not set up their own laws without imitating and replicating the Western fucking way of life? Are you advocating Am way or the Highway?
What the fuck is this line of “Embarrassment” about?
Finally Phil sums up the prevailing “liberal” attitudes:
Doug wrote: ““Our resources have largely been stripped, and our language virtually destroyed. Our people and culture are mocked…” [By who Glen]?
Why, by the English of course – who else? And can you think of any other nation that routinely mocks and disparages the Welsh now, apart from the English? Your simplistic dismissal is a worthy case in point.
This largely comes from the attitudes of the English gentry, who employed very poorly educated Welsh girls as servants. They spoke little English too. Clearly, the Welsh were an extremely ignorant people, as could be discerned from this fair sampling of the population.
Doug continues: “So you are a Welsh nationalist Glen that believes everyone living in Wales should speak Welsh and maintain a Welsh “culture” (whatever that is, perhaps you could explain).
Only 19% of the population of Wales speak Welsh and only 12% fluently.
Did you conclude I’m a Welsh nationalist – if so why? Are you an English nationalist, which I might more fairly conclude from your knee-jerk rejection that the Welsh have any right to a sense of nationality whatsoever?
Do you know why Welsh is so poorly understood and practiced in Wales, Doug? Do you have any idea at all? Maybe reading around on the subject would help you understand why arrogant statements such as yours kind of tick us off a bit. Here’s a tiny starter.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Not
Contemporary esotericism. To be a Greenwald or to be a Grunwald, that is the question !!
Egyptian crisis solved. Nobel Peace Prize Laureate and President of the US, Barak Obama, declares military overthrow of Egypt’s government a demi-coup and cuts aid in half. (If he could manage to reduce aid to $599,000,000 the accountants would round it to zero — even better.) Military sees light and brings back one-half of Muslim Brotherhood to parliament. Everybody cheers.
Does anyone know if it’s a paid trip to Oslo to pick up the medal and $$$ or must I make my own arrangements? Is it a white-tie deal? 🙂
One reason for creation of the US Senate, with two senators elected from each state, was to provide less populated states a balance of power.
In any event, the Founding Fathers (there were no Founding Muthas) and original voters were all men of means — property owners or those wealthy enough to pay taxes — who had distrust of democratic rabble, such as the Occupy or Tea Party movements. It’s estimated in the early days of the republic only 40-50% of white men qualified to vote. Of course, women, blacks and Native Americans were excluded.
That’s from memory and a quick look at Wikipedia. I did not know that some states did not allow Catholics, Jews, Quakers or Baptists to vote. The Baptists were excluded because the Anglicans didn’t consider them a legitimate religion, which makes little sense.
@ Herbie (23h35)
OK, thanks for that; I vaguely recalled that there was a connection but I got the two mixed up.
“Nice, I see what you did there. But you support British independence as a sovereign state?”
Britain isn’t independent, Britain is in Europe which means we must abide by European laws. The people of Britain still have self determination because they can vote in European elections to elect those who make the laws. I have no problem with that.
Britain is also not independent because the people of Britain must abide by American laws, however the people of Britain have no say in electing the people who make those laws. In that respect the people of Britain don’t have self determination. I do have a problem with that.
Before the union with Scotland the people of Scotland and England spent a lot of time killing each other, that doesn’t happen so much now. Before the EU the people of Europe spent a lot of time killing each other, that doesn’t happen so much now. I support a world where people don’t spend so much time killing each other.