The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
With what just happened to Glenn Greenwald’s partner, David Miranda – detained and interrogated for nine hours at Heathrow under anti-terrorism legislation (and which clearly had US involvement), it is no wonder that Julian Assange was as wary as he was about going to Sweden. Indeed, one can see why he cannot risk even leaving his currently de facto political prisoner status in the Embassy of Ecuador to travel to Ecuador itself for political asylum. We see the same dynamic in the persecution of Edward Snowden and Bradley Manning. This detention was another blatant misuse of anti-terrorism powers.
So, we can see from this shameful incident that as activists and many others warned, once a law curtailing freedom is on the sttautre books, it will be used to its fullest possible extent and well beyond – i.e. it will be misused/abused.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/aug/18/david-miranda-detained-uk-nsa
@ Passerby
“Judging the course of non debate, and the numbers of the comments. At this rate we best accept this blog is now officially an occupied territory, in which the political repression and persecution of nonconformists..”
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You’ve got the right idea, boyo, but the wrong tense and the characters the wrong way round.
This blog WAS territory occupied by a cohort of obsessives , if not worse. It has been infiltrated by a handful of freedom fighters (myself, Villager, Anon…) who are putting up a valiant asymmetrical fight against heavy odds. And gaining territory, despite attempts at repression and persecution by the Illuminati and Eminences.
See us as Hamas rockets or the occasional separation fence penetrater, if you wish.
Israel wants more US military aid as they think they are losing their edge – QME = qualitative military edge – due to US military sales in the region.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130815/DEFREG04/308150008/Israel-Seeks-Increase-Annual-US-Aid
@ Villager
John Goss cannot be other than anti-Israel. That was the line of the (now happily almost vanished) CPGB.
Good response Habbabkuk. Only you have the patience to deal with this moaning failed politician and help him analyse the simplest of situations. What siege he must live in if he thinks Indians, Pakistanis and Bengalis have been herded up by some great conspiratorial master-plan.
And his sense of humour associated with his attempt to use flowery English makes him stand out as a bit of a novelty of a fool.
Suhayl, I agree that what happened to Miranda was dreadful, but I spy a silver lining in the cloud. I suspect the security state has over-reached, yet again, and it is being very widely reported on right across the British political spectrum (and the little bits of the US media that I’ve read). The media is not often entirely conscious of their complicity in the hard state, but when one of their own is attacked – a de-facto journalist if not a card-carrying one – they snap back hard.
On a (slightly) lighter note, today I came across a great song from the US, at a guess inspired by the economic crisis. It sounds greatly sympathetic for those most affected.
What is all the fuss about someone being held at an airport for questioning (legally, under anti-terrorism legislation) about? Whether by the UK authorities proprio motu or on behalf of an ally?
I was once held at Jeddah airport for 8 hours but nobody raised a stink about that as far as I can remember. And I’m at least as important as Mr Miranda (who he?)!
Grunwald, Assange, and Assassination
Loving the Drone Disease
by Binoy Kampmark / August 19th, 2013
http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/08/grunwald-assange-and-assassination/
~~
Separately I read that the US is intensifying its drone attacks in Yemen. Protests in Sana’a at the weekend.
http://english.irib.ir/news/middle-east/item/115827-yemenis-slam-us-killer-drone-attacks
Suhayl, yes, rather counteracts the argument that if you haven’t done anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about.
Flaming June and Komodo.
Thanks for the links re Roger Waters support For Nigel Kennedy,
My wish from a couple of days ago Granted, Well done to both of them
Signed the petition its doing very well at 585 signatures
MJ. @ 11;16 am
You are correct on that
“Little did the public realize that a large scale theater war is never planned and executed in a matter of weeks. The decision to launch a war and send troops to Afghanistan had been taken well in advance of 9/11. The “terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event” as it was later described by CentCom Commander General Tommy Franks, served to galvanize public opinion in support of a war agenda which was already in its final planning stage”.
And
“In the months leading up to 9/11, I was actively involved in research on the terror attacks in Macedonia, waged by the self-proclaimed National Liberation Army (NLA) of Macedonia, a paramilitary army integrated by KLA commanders. Al Qaeda Mujahideen had integrated the NLA.Meanwhile, senior US military officers from a private mercenary company on contract to the Pentagon were advising the terrorists.
Barely a couple of months prior to 9/11, US military advisers were seen mingling with Al Qaeda operatives within the same paramilitary army. In late June 2001, seventeen US “instructors” were identified among the withdrawing rebels. To avoid the diplomatic humiliation and media embarrassment of senior US military personnel captured together with “Islamic terrorists”by the Macedonian Armed Forces, the US and NATO pressured the Macedonian government to allow the NLA terrorists and their US military advisers to be evacuated.
The evidence, including statements by the Macedonian Prime Minister and press reports out of Macedonia, pointed unequivocally to continued US covert support to the “Islamic brigades” in the former Yugoslavia. This was not happening in the bygone era of the Cold War, but in June 2001, barely a couple of months prior to 9/11. These developments, which I was following on a daily basis, immediately cast doubt in my mind on the official 9/11 narrative which presented Al Qaeda as the mastermind behind the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. (Chapter IV.) xiv America’s “War on Terrorism”
Michel Chossudovsky, August 2005
Villager, Jon, yes, spot on.
Habbabkuk, at 7:11pm, today: If we are to measure our civil/human rights by those of Saudi Arabia, if that is the only defence you can muster for this atrocious bullying and intimidation of the partner of a journalist – the so-called Fourth Estate – undertaken by the UK (and US) states, then I think that that amply reinforces the point. Indeed, it is a matter of not simply civil rights, but also of the persecution of free speech in a democratic society.
Suhayl Saadi: “Macky, you do have a point”
Yes, that’s the normal result of rational reasoning, without the handicap of trying to fit things through an agenda oriented prism.
Suhayl Saadi; “They also mostly fight as one or other confession/tribal based units. For example, Hizbollah and most of the Iraqi units have an Islamist (Shia or Sunni Islamist) political credo. They also are deadly enemies to one another – Sadr versus Badr (both Shia Islamists in Iraq), versus various Sunni groups, etc. In Lebanon, there also are various Christian militias designated as such.”
Yes, yes those barbaric religious extremists always trying to kill each other, unlike the civilised moderate Christians of the West, except for the odd World War or two of course ! Have you never heard of the Religious Wars that plagued much of Europe for a few centuries, or ever noticed that WASP countries don’t even now much care about other strands of Christianity ? Try asking the people of Latin America, or the Balkans, especially the Russians or the Serbs.
Suhayl Saadi; “With the downfall of Arab Nationalism post-1967”
I guess that the remarkable post 1967 achievements of both Iraqi & Libyan Nationalism escaped your notice; unfortunately it didn’t escape the notice of certain Western ghouls.
Suhayl Saadi; “and after the Israeli invasion of Lebanon in 1982, the secular Leftist paramilitaries in Lebanon (always tribal) were destroyed or morphed into Islamist paramilitaries. There was no Hizbollah before the Israeli invasion of 1982. There was no (or at least no visible) Hamas before the First Intifada.”
Sorry if I don’t take your prism commentary as gospel, but please put the case for why you believe that either Hizbollah, (yes, despite its official name), or even Hamas, are not considered by most of their supporters as primarily defenders of their respective lands & people, ie as Arab Nationalism viewed Resistances ?
Suhayl Saadi; “So Western military invasion definitely is one driver (not the only driver) in the formation of Islamist paramilitaries. The two feed off one another.”
Ah now you are getting there; not so much as feeding of each other, more Cause & Effect, you know, that universal principle that keeps the Universe ticking over; and not always unintended consequences, remember who originally helped create Hamas ?
Suhayl Saadi;“ This is why Bin Laden et al did 9/11; they wanted the USA to invade Afghanistan. It’s a typical guerrilla tactic. “
And you wonder why your credibility might be questioned !
Sorry but I’m already flagging & losing the will to live in having to address every sentence, perhaps you might consider cutting down on the verbiage a little, as those that it impress tend to those not worth impressing, and instead concentrate more on directly addressing the substantive points of issue instead.
Suhayl Saadi; “You seem now to have positioned me as, ‘official enemy’
No, I just find racism & religious demonising, sly or blatant, very objectionable.
Suhayl Saadi; “and seem to have decided to try to undermine my ‘credibility’, to character assassinate.”
You’re doing a fine spot of self-undermining & self-inflicted character assassinating, completely without any of my help.
Re RAWA, how cheap of you to try to use them in aid of your Islamophobic demonising position; rather reminds me of those “Humanitarians” who effectively screamed for the mass dropping of bombs on civilians on the pretext of helping achieve “Women’s Rights” for Afghan women.
Suhayl Saadi; “Your romanticising of Islamist paramilitaries is misguided and in the end merely reinforces neo-colonialism.”
Yes how terribly romantic & old fashion, and frightfully gullible of me to believe that even Muslims defending their love-ones & country from foreign occupations, are as honorably & as brave as Christians when they do so.
Suhayl Saadi; “I reiterate that you and Fedup (interesting allies here)”
Not as interesting as some of the characters here, who lately have tended to rush in with support & with compliments on every Islamophobic Post you make.
Suhayl Saadi; “do not have a monopoly on the representation of Muslim people. Nor do I, of course. But the difference is that I do not pretend to do so. “
Funny I can’t remember claiming or even pretending that I did, and I guess we’ll have to take your word that you aren’t either, despite contrary impressions that is.
Suhayl Saadi; “Macky, do you support clerical fascism? “
If I want to be insulted, I can always go to the Habbu-Clown, who likes to ask people why they don’t publically condemn every vile atrocity ever committed by any Muslim. I think that if either of you were to go around the streets asking Joe Public your respective questions, you would both end up in hospital very quickly.
“… pointed unequivocally to continued US covert support to the “Islamic brigades” in the former Yugoslavia.” [from Brian’s post at 7:29pm today]
I have profound reservations about Chossudovsky. But yes, the material about the KLA (basically a paramilitary criminal syndicate) and the USA is true. They were/are in cahoots – another example of the tactical alliances typical of this thematic area (and indeed of history in general). One suspects that if we wer able to look right into Syria (and during the war there, also Libya), we would see much the same thing going on right now. The UK’s Special Forces, too.
I was arrested with Caroline Lucas MP,then MEP, in Faslane some years back, we both ended up in Glasgow nick for some hours, I remember that I missed my bus and had a struggle to get home to Norfolk, the usual tactic to make you feel miserable.
This morning I saw her picture, like a lamb to the slaughter, her alone with no other protesters, in front of a line of police.
This afternoon she was interview and pressed more than once whether she would be prepared to be arrested, as if the reporter knew she was going to, had prior information. The police warned them that they would be arrested for obstructing the highway and they were, including her young son.
I would like to THANK her publicly, here, for she speaks for a lot of people with principles, although party political once they don’t always respect themselves.
She is pointing the way this issue will be opposed, non violently and without hope of persuading the Tories who can see nothing but pound notes. The protesters have a map to go by, many areas are already marked foR fracking and there are more by the day.
The people who live there are free to join in and support her in this, because this will pollute some water courses, whatever they say, it is a manifest fact, and it will concern the future of all our children. Caroline is right, why pollute water supplies/courses, for cheap dirty bucks, when you have a massive coastline which screams energy 24/7. The greatest alternative capabilities in Europe, sea currents that exist 24/7,wave and wind power, gas plasma plants which can ameliorate and reinstate our landfills to woodland or amenities whilst producing sync gas for elec tricity or cars. with no emissions or pollution.
but NO, our green Tories have to burn everything, at great inefficiencies!
Our eastern seaboard is sinking and we need to safeguard our estuaries, so why , when there are only 150 ship movements/year, can we not build a Wash barrier with a lock system, safeguard the Fenlands were much of our fresh food supplies originate (6bn/annum’s worth), and dispense with two nuclear power stations.
We have potential alternative energy everywhere and we are refusing to see it, rather polluting what little is left with no considerations given to energy saving ( old housing stock) or innovating with modern, simple and benign devices.
So, frack off will become colloquial language and our learned one’s will just have to swallow it.
I expect that soon the Government will wheel out the old chestnut ‘in the national interest’, as they did today.s with the NDR here in Norwich, the ultimate reasoning of all….Zappenduster!
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/fast_track_for_northern_distributor_road_after_government_deems_it_nationally_important_1_2342504
I have published the site showing already drilled and prepared licenses some pages earlier. Add to this the possible deposits and were they occur and you can prepare your own direct action, should you so wish or desire.
My understanding is that this technology requires vast amounts of water and chemicals. is there any chemically trained scientists among us who could tell us what molecules of gas prefer to stick to?
Macky, at 7:38pm: Thank you for your input. Your passionate engagement is much appreciated. But, with respect, you still have not answered my very simple question. And so, I will pose it again:
Macky, do you support clerical fascism?
Thank you for your time.
@ Suhayl
“Habbabkuk, at 7:11pm, today: If we are to measure our civil/human rights by those of Saudi Arabia, if that is the only defence you can muster for this atrocious bullying and intimidation of the partner of a journalist – the so-called Fourth Estate – undertaken by the UK (and US) states, then I think that that amply reinforces the point. Indeed, it is a matter of not simply civil rights, but also of the persecution of free speech in a democratic society.”
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Suhayl, I am disappointed because I would have expected better from someone who was able to write that essay on radio I referred to some while back and who therefore should know the meaning of words as well as understand them.
One : you know perfectly well that my comment was not intended to measure our civil/human rights by those obtaining in Saudi Arabia.
Two : do you really believe that detaining someone for 8 hours at Heathrow, in accordance with existing law, amounts to “persecution” or even “persecution of free speech”. Persecution?
***************
I shall refrain, on this occasion, and because it’s you, from ending with my mottto 🙂
Deja-vu & never-ending Groundhog days !
Just a day after I posted;
“ the Clown attacks one of the most effective Posters here, namely Mary, but cleverly directs the attack not so much on substance, but rather on superficials such as style or syntax or frequency of comments or feign indignation at a particular word/expression etc, etc; this proves irresistible to a certain number of other Posters, who until given an excuse, did not dare express their own latent resentment towards Mary, and so they quickly jump on the Clown’s bandwagon, inadvertently aiding & encouraging him in his mission to distract & disrupt. Only Dreoilin & Technicolour know why they harbour such animosity towards Mary, that they rarely miss an opportunity for a snarky dig, perhaps it’s a female rivalry thing;”
Both Dreoilin & Technicolour have not able to resist even the flimsiest excuse for taking yet more pot-shots at Mary, and now we have another example of feign indignation over the use of the word “nest”; who was it that ever said that the females were the gentlest sex ?!
Nevermind, me too. I have a lot of respect for Caroline Lucas.
I have decided to ignore the troll(s). When Habbabkuk started being more reasonable I engaged him again but it’s getting as bad as it was when Mary was the target. I advised her to ignore him and all other trolls. I can certainly get along well without that shower of shills.
Thanks, Habbabkuk, that’s very kind of you, on all counts.
Okay, let’s forget about Saudi Arabia for a moment.
On Greenwald/Miranda/Poitras, yes, actually, I think it is patently obviously – clumsily, actually, as Jon suggests, but then power often is clumsy and the very clumsiness/brazenness is part of the intimidation – an attempt to send a message to the press/the fourth estate about the power of the hard state. It is also intended to send a message to potential future whistleblowers a la Snowden. Or are you suggesting that David Miranda is a terrorist?
“Do you really believe that detaining someone for 8 hours at Heathrow, in accordance with existing law, amounts to “persecution” or even “persecution of free speech”. Persecution?” Habbabkuk.
The key phrase is “in accordance with existing law”.
I think that the law here has been brought into disrepute because it has been mis-used. This is a very important principle in a democratic society. So in this specific case, yes, I do think it amounts to persecution of Miranda, mainly, but secondarily and very deliberately, too, of Greenwald, Poitras and Snowden.
Jon, Habbabkuk, has virtually accused me of being a member of the CPGB. Even if I was, or ever had been, it has nothing to do with what I write. I have no problem with Israelis, or other Jews. I disagree with what Israel is doing to Palestine but that is because I believe in justice. Villager and Habbabkuk have been goading me because they do not know the difference between Jews and Zionists. Just to make it clear again, I am not anti-Jewish, or anti-Communist, though I am neither a Jew nor a Communist. However I am joining Left Unity, the initiative of playwright Ken Loach, and suggest others do because the Labour Party is another Neocon/Zionist party and the left no longer has a voice. I used to be a Labour Party member for many years.
@Mike, next time maybe, I shall have one for you, Caledonian Gold OK?
@ it who does not like to be called Moishe because he once was arrested and boooohoo, nobody loved him except Sofia, but because he did not like her boyfriend, she couldn’t be asked to bail him out….
Immigration was controlled by councils, it, and they saw it fit to nestle immigrants into relevant ghettos, straight forward, whether it was Pakistani’s, Indians and Bangladeshi immigrants in Tower hamlets, West Indian and Nigerian’s in Brixton or North London’s Irish, Jewish or Greek communities. just as they do gated communities for the have’s today, although the poor darlings don’t realise that they are living inside walls.
Far from diverting the argument, it was you who raised the issue in the first place, like you tend to sneak in your favourite hobby horses on past threads.
And in good old Boor fashion, its all the rage you know, Israel copied it, the ghetto idea, it, and presented us with Gaza, with blatant Blair clapping from the sidelines.
no need to strain yourself.
Adolf
“you still have not answered my very simple question. And so, I will pose it again”
You are beneath contempt.
“Sorry but I’m already flagging & losing the will to live…” Macky, 7:38pm.
A pepper vodka might help. And perhaps a mirror in which to gaze for a few, silent moments.
“You are beneath contempt.” Macky, at 8:17pm.
Ah, Bette Davis! My favourite old-style Hollywood heroine! Are you a fan, Macky?
Yes it’s finally happened, Suhayl Saadi has morphed into the Habbu-Clown !
Maybe they were one & the same all along !!
@ Technicolour
I should thank you for so ably coming to the defence of Bernard Levin and thereby adding to the rebuke I was compelled to issue to “Chris Jones” (who, I notice, has not come back to us on the question of the uneven distribution of Welsh speakers in Wales – perhaps to apologise?).
I also second your query about the use of the word “nest” and, while accepting the perpetrater’s assurance that she was not using the word in a “Nazi sense”, feel that something was nevertheless revealed through that choice of word. But I shan’t go into that now.
In that connection, I understand Komodo’s “unease at letting the Nazis dictate the terms of our discourse” (post at 14h35) but would remind him that, like it or not,history has brought about that certain words have certain resonances for succeeding generations; a point illustrated by the way in which Israel makes free with the word “holocaust” (as in “the Iranians are threatening a second holocaust”). This works, on occasion and with certain audiences, precisely because of the word’s resonance. In the same way (toutes proportions gardées) as “nest” when used in a comment about Jews.
And still my very simple question remains unanswered.
@ John Goss
I of course accept what you say about your political affiliations, past and present.
John Goss. Having ‘known’ you here over six or seven years, I would affirm that you do not have a racist bone in your body.
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Nevermind. That inane One Show BBC 1 were blatantly putting out pro fracking propaganda from Balcombe tonight. Their reporter was rather aggressive towards the protesters. Some young man at Balcombe was allowed several minutes of it. Not on the iPlayer! That’s handy. The audience is said to be 5 million. Wikipedia.
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Julian Assange spoke on PM Radio 4 tonight about the David Miranda arrest. 5’25” in http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b038c0f8
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Finally, the story of the Camerons, the Astors and their offshore arrangements in the Bahamas for their Scottish estate in Jura.
David Cameron, William Astor and the Bahamas
18. August 2013 · 16 comments Who Owns Scotland http://www.andywightman.com/?p=3040
Total hypocrisy.