The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
Thanks for the links Flaming June. I’ve seen videos which prove (as near as it’s possible) that these planes were radio-controlled drones. Al Qaeda never had the expertise to pull off such an event, and does not now. Only the Zionist-funded US is sick enough to kill innocent people. Al Qaeda targets what it considers to be enemies, not ordinary people going about their daily work.
I forgot to mention that we should be particularly thinking about Talha Ahsan today. He is 34 years old and has spent one fifth of his life imprisoned without trial.
People should remember that these laws, in this form, are Blair’s New Labour laws, so ousting Cameron and getting Milliband is not a quick exit to freedom.
Similarly, the Lib Dems who are currently in government are clearly no bulwark against such abuses by the state.
It’s clear too that in the US, Obama is even worse than Bush in terms of such freedoms and much else too.
I do hope that this incident with Miranda will assist in shattering once and for all this by now very tiresome left/right paradigm and force peeps to reconsider their individual relationship to politics and the state.
It’s clear from comments in both The Spectator and Guardian that many people are genuinely shocked by this incident, but the information was all there for them had they cared to look at what has been going on.
It’s worth mentioning that Nick Cohen, big supporter of Blairio, has penned an article condemning this latest outrage, and Rusbridger has come up with something similar.
Even Andrew Sullivan is on the case.
Yet, these three fine chaps have known for quite some time what’s been going on.
Don’t be fooled. It’s merely crisis management.
Assange is the real deal.
@ Dreoilin 20 Aug, 2013 – 12:09 am
“Such ham-fisted attempts by Whitehall to shut the Guardian/Glenn Greenwald up! “with two GCHQ security experts overseeing the destruction of hard drives in the Guardian’s basement””
If the services were interested in security they would have seized the computers rather than destroy them. It was a show of force and the power of The State. Why would they believe the Guardian told them the truth that those particular computers contained the super-secrets?
For the government, a happy side effect, perhaps the main purpose of detaining Greenwald’s partner, was pushing the message through the mainstream that Greenwald is gay. I wasn’t aware of that. The geezers are still propagandizing with sixties rules, as they did with the smears of Gareth Williams. Suppose it still works with some homophobic old-timers.
Villager
I’m curious if they have any real case against Musharaf — which of course it’s impossible to know from where I’m sitting.
A tangled web, I’m thinking.
Yes Dreoilin thats Pakistan for you. Deals within wheels within deals. As far as i recall, no one else has been charged for Benazir’s murder, have they? So it would seem a bit spurious without a fuller articulation of the conspiracy.
I could never figure Pakistan out. Amazing how its muddled through. Yet its one country that has stood up to the US, even run little circles around them, and got away.
Herbie
Yes, indeed, and there’s a paradox for Rusbridger and his merry band* of Blairites – in their haste to usher in the Third Way, they didn’t notice the shiny creeping police state.
(* I wonder whether the collective noun should however be a “miliband” of Blairites?)
“pushing the message through the mainstream that Greenwald is gay. I wasn’t aware of that.” NR
Yes, I saw that the Tea Party (or at least some of them – on a site I visit) were complimenting Greenwald greatly over his writing, and his defense of Snowden on various TV shows in the USA. I’m guessing they didn’t know either. I’m watching them now to see if their support diminishes!
[On that site they’re viciously anti-gay, anti-black, anti-Muslim, anti-feminism, anti-Mexican, anti-Arab, anti-immigration, anti-teaching of Spanish, anti-just about everthing.]
Jon, btw is this the new style of deletions/censorship here that the comment deleted is completely zapped without a trace? i.e. no comment bubble/space time/name details left behind whatsoever.
It’s not all bad news…
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/camerons-jura-holiday-proves-painful.21920410
The ever-loyal Herald omits to mention that Call Me Dave was there for the deerstalking. Demotic Dave. Classless Cam.
technicolour
19 Aug, 2013 – 1:20 pm
“Mary, please answer my questions. You are aware, for example, that the term ‘a nest’ when referring to Jewish people was used by the original Nazis and now features in far-right wing anti-semitic propaganda? I’m sure you are using it quite accidentally, but at the same time, is it really not worrying?”
Thecnicolour,
I can’t find any reference linking the term “a nest” to the original Nazis or any far right anti-Semitic groups referring to Jews.
Can you supply your sources and references to back this up?
I note that you spell the word Semitic with a lower case s, strange that.
Villager – re style of deletion, I mentioned this back in June:
If I trash a comment in order to be able to later restore it, I will always make a note in the comments stream. I do have a proposed fix for this, waiting for a couple of months, but it requires Craig to get back to me on some things first. He needs another prod, I think…
@ John Goss 20 Aug, 2013 – 10:00 am
“Even now as they are held in Supermax prisons in the US for 23 hours a day they have still not been brought to trial.”
The custom now is to hold all high-profile suspects (ones that make for a good show trial), not only terrorists, in solitary for 23 hours a day for 2-3 years. When presented in court they are shackled, or shackled and chained to the floor, or shackled and walled-off in a specially built Eichmann-style glass booth.
Note that Bradley Manning was shown daily escorted by not only two military guards, but from two to four very large bouncer/goon types dressed in the fashion of Blackwater/Triple Canopy/Craft Service.
The remaining unassassinated, alleged Boston terrorist, was brought in to court handled by Federal Marshalls wearing black gloves. All organs of state propaganda reported on that small detail.
The alleged Boston bombers were originally designated as Chechen terrorists, then after the Obama/Putin spat over Snowden, they became Russian terrorists, and recently it’s revealed Tamerlan [the dead one] was also a white supremacist, a dastardly unbeliever in the official 9/11 story, and a purchaser of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion at a Boston convenience store. [That’s what they said, fer reals.] No mention if he had the autographed copy of Timothy McVeigh’s “The Turner Diaries”.
That report by state propagandists was followed next day by all outlets, left and right, coincidentally reporting on The Mufti of Jerusalem meeting Adolph Hitler.
It’s like watching a mediocre magician doing stale tricks. Works, I guess, for the minority who still bother with news. I know of very few people under the age of 40-50 who have any interest.
“There’s a paradox for Rusbridger and his merry band* of Blairites – in their haste to usher in the Third Way, they (The Guardian) didn’t notice the shiny creeping police state.
(* I wonder whether the collective noun should however be a “miliband” of Blairites?)”
Absolutely, Jon, and there seems no longer to be any mechanism for changing the Labour party. Blair sorted that too.
The mass of people are no longer represented. They’re managed, and media including The Guardian are a central part of the management team. Sure, each aspect of the state management team will have its differences from time to time, but they’ll all rally round eachother once again, in common purpose, faithfully managing the peeps.
That big outbreak of democracy in the 1960s/70s was called by the elites, “a crisis of democracy”. There was even talk of a coup in Britain, and of course the events in NI were very much a part of the military power grab.
Seems anyway that crisis is over and management are firmly back in control.
Have my doubts about the hard drive story. It portrays The Guardian as poor little victims just like the rest of us. That’s far from the case, though there is undoubtedly a bit of an infight tussle going on between the military and media at the moment, but they both know that they need each other. They’re just different parts of the team after all.
Komodo
19 Aug, 2013 – 4:25 pm
“Can we start with “going forward”. Which actually means moving toward a vessel’s bows?”
Let’s not forget avast behind!
https://twitter.com/bitterarab/status/369773873191194624
Oh Lord help me, look at this crap …
“Local man John Gillooly told TheJournal.ie that the night was “so emotional”.
“The man is 94 years of age and he did a couple of speeches and waved to everyone – people broke down,” he said. “It’s just amazing to have the head of the CIA coming over to our little place, I mean we’re only a small community with less than 500 people, so to have one of the top men in the world, Obama’s righthand man, here, is unbelievable.”
http://www.thejournal.ie/cia-roscommon-turf-1041770-Aug2013/
You probably have avast astern* than I, Doug…
*correct usage
Picture worth a thousand words …
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/8/16/1376689394886/Martin-Rowson-16.08.13-013.jpg
For those who missed it in the belief the Guardian has nothing to add…
Sequel:
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2013/8/20/1376956093102/Martin-Rowson-20.08.13-012.jpg
Thanks for explaining Jon. I would prefer the reason in the comment space as its easier to follow. You’re hardly likely to restore a comment.
Pity about the Macky/Suhayl dialogue — i suspect their thinking is more closely aligned than they think. In my view deletions don’t help though — the natural response is for people to harden their views further and come to abrupt conclusions, i.e. ending, without the ending of conflict.
Anonymity is a double-edged sword, facilitating people to speak out openly yet, people using language that they wouldn’t use in person. This is a factor of the internet age. Whiners will have to grow up (not a bad thing) and should not become a protected species.
Worth thinking about in the larger context.
Thanks Villager, agree with most of that. I’ve restored a few comments in the past, though, after consideration.
Definitely, this is the fix that is hopefully coming (that also doesn’t lose the original). But it needs hosting changes that only Craig can move forward on, so we’re stuck until that happens.
Indeed, if we were all sitting in a room, with a cup of tea apiece, the dynamic would be different. Participants would have less anonymity, but in a room without the “cameras of the internet”, people would feel less need for it.
Komodo said;
Is someone coming out of focsle?
~~~~
Further to my strong protest yesterday
The following riposte has been smeared on the thread by the resident clown;
Does this reflect the Moderators view point?
If not then why this cretin can get away with smearing the blog with total nonsense/insults/irrelevancies and not get censured?
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!)
19 Aug, 2013 – 7:11 pm
You seem to accept the official line at all times without question.
Why is that?
A more informed person would treat statements from politicians, Ministers of the state; Security Services and the police with scepticism and ask questions to make sure these state actors are held to account.
Habbabkuk:
“What is all the fuss about someone being held at an airport for questioning (legally, under anti-terrorism legislation) about?”
There should be “a fuss” Habbabkuk because this case illustrates how schedule 7 of the Terrorism Act is in fact a catch-all instrument being used and abused by the state for targeting political activists and non-conforming journalists and anyone else who catches their attention.
Schedule 7 allows the police to stop, search and detain anyone (for up to 9 hours) without suspicion and without the detainee being “arrested”.
If the detainee objects to being detained the police can use force to prevent the subject from leaving, while still, technically not under arrest.
The detainee can demand legal representation but only at their own expense and the interrogation will start before a solicitor arrives and refusal to answer questions is a criminal offence.
The interrogation is not video or audio recorded and the only record being made are in the police officers notes. (Reminiscent of the 1970’s policing methods).
Doug Scorgie:
“Can you supply your sources and references to back this up?”
Hans Frank, the Governor General of occupied Poland…visited Lemberg and addressed a public gathering. “It is impossible to thank the Fuhrer enough for having entrusted this ancient nest of Jews, this Polish poorhouse, to strong and capable German muscle,”
http://motl.org/?p=642
http://books.google.ie/books?id=lTW_dftTTUcC&pg=PA226&lpg=PA226&dq=%22nest+of+jews%22+propaganda&source=bl&ots=_GtASnbX1s&sig=pSUMFRpVzpHPf-JJGWSjU5ZDD0w&hl=en&sa=X&ei=h2gTUvm3BaWa7QbI24GoBg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22nest%20of%20jews%22%20propaganda&f=false
http://books.google.ie/books?id=8JiqNpE-Lz4C&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=%22nest+of+jews%22+nazi&source=bl&ots=c-LvFACtLV&sig=35uOEyi1UADaG1czTf4C-HQrUd0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-WkTUrG9ItG07QbluoCgBw&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=%22nest%20of%20jews%22%20nazi&f=false
“Those less well disposed to Le Chambon knew it as “the nest of Jews in Protestant country”
http://www.chambon.org/chambon_sunday_times_mag_06-06-04.htm
The above sites for historical reference were all on the first couple of pages of my search so I am at a loss to know how you failed to find them. I am not going to provide a link to Stormfront, or any of the dozens of other virulent sites which currently use this term, on this blog. Search yourself: the results are instant.
“I note that you spell the word Semitic with a lower case s, strange that.”
Oh good grief. What? What is ‘strange’ about that, Doug?
Macky: it’s amusing that you are assuming I’m female. It’s also amusing that, having posted a couple of nice slurs on the gender (I quoted them earlier) you are now complaining about being ‘accused’ of female chauvinism. I’m not accusing you of that: for all I know you might be a misanthrope. Or beautifully motivated by your desire for common ground and agreement; who knows? I do apologise if your feelings were hurt, of course.
Fedup: along with Craig (huzzah for Craig) I do not subscribe to the view that ‘Zionists’ rule the world. For example, though I do not expect you will want to hear it, sections of the British establishment are virulently anti-Jewish. I am inclined to think that the corporations, in which the military-industrial complex features largely but not solely, now increasingly set the agenda. But there are a welter of different and competing interests forming policy and actions; many of them homicidal. I realise that this does not rise to generalised levels of fury, and apologise – I am quite capable of generalised levels of fury, I assure you.
Technicolour said;
Oh, that Hans! In fact he was last week perambulating by the Elbe, and limbering up in preparations for his appearance in the next spiritualist meeting of the society for digging up the ancient ghosts,to keep them relevant, and current!
Is there any recent stuff to be found anywhere, or are we caught in peculiar time warp?
Re David Miranda, what is almost more disconcerting is that his laptop and other equipment could simply be confiscated? Is it really that simple?
“Anonymity is a double-edged sword, facilitating people to speak out openly yet, people using language that they wouldn’t use in person. This is a factor of the internet age. Whiners will have to grow up (not a bad thing) and should not become a protected species.” Villager.
If you look at the glossary of terms at the back of ‘Psychoraag’ (one of my novels), you will find that there is a mix of words in various languages. A significant minority of these consists of expletives in the various languages and there are a number of expletive neologisms, some formed from merging different languages.
In other words, if I wanted to, I could be as insulting to individuals in cyberspace as the next person. Even on the occasions where one is reqd to use a pseudonym on sites, I try not to descend to that level. I do not view it as a licence. One only ends up demeaning onseself. That’s my view.
In the years I’ve been contributing to this political blog, we’ve had neocons, white supremacists, web-disruptor gang members, Israeli propagandists, Islamists and many others. And many, many decent people with often differing views. All kinds of characters. It’s all very interesting and engaging. It’s also excellent research material into the human condition – character and dialogue fuel, if you will, for possible future projects.
Re David Miranda, what is almost more disconcerting is that his laptop and other equipment could simply be confiscated? Is it really that simple?
Yes. The trick is to do it in an airport, seaport or international rail station. No prior permission is necessary, and no previous connection to terrorism is necessary. Dreoilin and I have both linked above to the Manchester police’s FAQ’s on Section 7.
If we’re still banging on about nests, Adolf’s old home will add to the nostalgia:
http://www.eagles-nest-tours.com/EN/eagles-nest-tours/index.php?navid=2
Clearly a self-hating Nazi.
I think we’ve done with the ‘nest’ thing, Passerby, a few pages ago in fact. I was replying to Doug Scorgie but, if you actually choose to read my post, you will find a helpful hint on how to search for the far too many examples of current usage.
Honestly, people seem to have gone a bit crazy. Perhaps it’s the sheer impotence when faced with the sheer accumulation of facts and travesties. – I can understand why it would be preferable to have an over-arching narrative, or to have a scapegoat, rather than, as Jon says, try and work towards a basic agreement of what we all mean by ‘human rights’ say. John Goss tried to suggest a direction – Ken Loach’s party – and I’d welcome anyone else’s thoughts on them.
Agreed John – did you notice my poster?