Feile An Phobail Belfast 4110

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The Respectability of Torture

St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm

 

Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.

 

My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk.  Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.

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4,110 thoughts on “Feile An Phobail Belfast”

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  • Komodo

    The detainee can demand legal representation but only at their own expense and the interrogation will start before a solicitor arrives and refusal to answer questions is a criminal offence.

    As an additional wrinkle, if the lawyer arrives without his passport, the airport authorities can refuse to let him into the interrogation room.

    Note too the right to silence is abandoned – it won’t just harm your defence (you haven’t been charged with anything anyway) but it will give them something to charge you with if you don’t answer their questions. Which can be completely irrelevant, and in Miranda’s case, were. I expect this principle to enter the general criminal law in the not-too-distant future: the police hate the right to silence and have been whittling away at it for years.

  • Passerby

    Technicolour ripostes;

    I think we’ve done with the ‘nest’ thing, Passerby, a few pages ago in fact. I was replying to Doug Scorgie but, if you actually choose to read my post, you will find a helpful hint on how to search for the fat too many examples current usage.

    Nitpicking and drilling into the past all the while pushing the same arguments into the fore (albeit in a differing way), somehow is as good as the attempts of the society for digging up the ancient ghosts,to keep them relevant, and current.

    It is now more than seven decades passed since the end of the WWII, since then there have been more combined tonnage of bombs dropped, surpassing by far any records set in that war. The same goes for the bullets, mortar/howitzer shells, anti tank rockets, missiles fired which have killed millions of people as well maiming millions more.

    Given this background, and in the face of such a monumental rolling carnage and slaughter of human being to start checking people for the use of “words” which may have been uttered by certain actors in WWII (citing the transcripts of the speeches made) is to say the least bizarre, to say the most reflective of a psychological malady. Extending this sentiment the German Language ought to be outlawed along with French, Italian, Polish, Romanian, and Greek too! In fact there should be an attempt to mandate Esperanto as the only viable language.

    Perhaps it is time for another:

    Long walk needed – very emotional and horrific stuff, all this, really.

  • technicolour

    (from above link): not reported in the mainstream:

    I have been stopped under Schedule 7 on two occasions. I was stopped in 2011 on the way to Egypt and in February 2013 at Luton Airport on the way back from Tel Aviv.

    In 2013, I was stopped at about 11.30pm, just after passport control, by two officers from Bedfordshire police who said they wanted to have a “little chat”. I was taken into a side room and the female officer said that she’d like to talk to me “because of where I had flown in from.”

    Once we were sitting down and she began to ask me questions it became obvious that it wasn’t just a random thing but that they had stopped me with a purpose. They asked me about a lot of campaigns that I had been involved in and about the work I had been doing in Israel, and how many times I’ve been there. About half an hour into the interview I asked why I had been stopped and they gave me a piece of paper saying that I had been stopped under Schedule 7. I had not asked earlier as I had guessed, but the information was not openly offered to me at the beginning.

    They started out by asking how I had travelled to Israel. I said we had travelled through Egypt. They asked what we were doing there, who we had met and why we had taken that route. I told them that we were doing research for Corporate Watch in Israel and the Occupied Territories. One of them asked why I was saying the “Occupied Territories” and what I meant. I said I would refer to it as Palestine. They asked how we communicated the information that we gathered out to people, which people we had met, where we had been staying for the duration of our trip, what organisations we had spoken to. They asked about our website and twitter account. They said they would take my computer so they would be able to get the information anyway, so I’d better just tell them.

    They asked me if I got paid for the work I was doing, how Corporate Watch was funded, if I had other jobs and who booked my flight. They seemed very interested in how our research trips were funded.

    They knew that our research was related to the boycott movement but asked for examples of companies we wrote about. They asked about what we had found, and what new information we were looking for. They asked what the aim of publishing the information was. I answered that there are hundreds of companies profiting from the occupation and that we are interested in all of them. They listed a lot of BDS campaigns and asked about my activist experience and the aims of the global boycott movement, why I got involved in Palestine solidarity and when. They asked me to tell them about Palestine, to educate them. They said “We’re just trying to find out what makes you tick… As we don’t get a chance to talk to you very often.”

    They were also very interested in the “hierarchy” of activist groups in general, and in particular in relation to the BDS movement. They were interested in who the “leaders” of certain groups were and tried to suggest I was one of them. When I said all groups I work with are non-hierarchical, they said: “It is all very wishy-washy, isn’t it?” They asked about specific campaigns such as those against Ahava, EDO and SodaStream, and asked me about my research into Israeli agricultural produce (there was a day of action against Israeli agricultural companies the following day). They also seemed interested in how the wider international BDS movement operates and how people come together to take action.

    The information they were asking for was not information that relates to terrorism. It was about protest groups and campaigns. Really mundane questions like: Where do you print the leaflets? What was the last flier and article you wrote? Where do you get your money from? What sort of bands do benefit gigs for you? and so on. When I said “mainly punk”, they asked: “So are you an anarchist then?” When I answered that I prefer not to define myself as anything, they responded: “Come on, with this background you must have a bit of anarchy in you!” They also asked about my religion, my family background and my relationship with my parents.

    I questioned them a couple of times about whether some of these questions were relevant to what they were trying to investigate but they kept on saying that I’d better answer or they could officially detain me. They asked me some questions about my partner and named some other people but I said I wouldn’t talk about other people. They kept on saying “we know a lot about you”. They mentioned my other job, just to let me know that they knew what I did for a living. They asked me a couple times about my nationality and how long I’ve been in the UK and said they had a right to monitor who comes in and out of the country. I didn’t feel particularly intimidated by it as I’ve always assumed they gather this kind of information, and a lot of the information is in the open anyway, but I think these interviews are partly designed to intimidate.

    I was kept for one hour and fifty minutes. They took my phone, camera and laptop for 7 days, the maximum in their power, and sent a Sussex Police Detective to my address to return it.

  • Herbie

    Tech

    Over arching narraives are essential and very important if people are to understand what’s going on. It seems to be one of the few mechanisms, beyond personal experience, through which people can assimilate new information.

    Discrete facts are useless without a narrative framework. You can call it theory if that’s more acceptable.

    For example, I posted about this ports and borders problem months ago and no one paid a blind bit of notice. Many others have written about it in media and no one took a blind bit of notice.

    It seems it needed this experiential, albeit vicarious, spectacle for people to sit up and take notice just how bad things are in terms of human rights in Britain.

    But then, what are they to make of it without some narrative framework. I’d suggest that without that narrative framework they’ll tend to think in terms of a one off legal issue, deal with that and we’re done, and clearly that’s no solution to the ever diminishing civil liberties problem in Britain.

    People need to understand why we’re losing those civil liberties, one by one, and to what purpose, and you can only do that through understanding it as a process across many areas in British life today. An unfolding narrative.

    On human rights and civil liberties themselves I’d suggest that rather than everyone getting round a table to work out what rights they want, they should instead challenge the diminution itself and the elite’s reason for it. That’s the most practical way forward.

    In other words you have to challenge their narrative.

    We are now, have been and probably always will be in a position where our rights and so on are negotiated with elites. That’s what you need to do. That’s how it works.

    The first task I’d suggest is to look for pressure points. And don’t worry, elites understand this game. They’re pragmatists. It’s the idealists, they distrust.

  • technicolour

    thanks Komodo – with all your useful links, wasn’t sure people would get round to reading!

  • Passerby

    Man who had sex with goat banned from every farm in the country

    The poor goats anonymity has been preserved through application of pixelation.

    Robert Newman has also been told he must stay indoors after dark until his sentencing hearing next month.

    The 23-year-old had been due to stand trial but at the last minute changed his plea to guilty at north-west Wiltshire magistrates court in Chippenham, admitting one count of an act of sexual penetration on the animal.

  • technicolour

    Herbie: People need to understand why we’re losing those civil liberties, one by one, and to what purpose, and you can only do that through understanding it as a process across many areas in British life today. An unfolding narrative.

    V well put, agree.

  • Komodo

    One more thought:

    When a government detains someone who is very clearly not a terrorist for nine hours without access to an attorney under a terrorism statute, that government has proven every point Greenwald wanted to make. The argument is over right there.

    And every “progressive” with a beef against Greenwald who attempts to defend the UK’s actions does nothing more than prove Greenwald’s point. Governments that detain civil libertarian bloggers and journalists as terrorists deserve every heaping of scorn they get, as do those who defend them.

    http://digbysblog.blogspot.co.uk/2013/08/making-greenwalds-point-for-him-by.html

  • NR

    @ Herbie 20 Aug, 2013 – 11:56 am

    ““There’s a paradox for Rusbridger and his merry band* of Blairites – in their haste to usher in the Third Way, they (The Guardian) didn’t notice the shiny creeping police state.”

    “The mass of people are no longer represented. They’re managed, and media including The Guardian are a central part of the management team. Sure, each aspect of the state management team will have its differences from time to time, but they’ll all rally round each other once again, in common purpose, faithfully managing the peeps.”

    Exactly the problem. In the US, while the Big Organs of State (or Party) Propaganda differ on some matters, when it comes to a crunch such as Snowden and national security they sound as one mighty bass pipe.

    Both sides still interview Michael Hayden, Keith Alexander and James Clapper, all acknowledged liars to Congress, as authorities on national security.

    The MSM is flummoxed, befuddled and aghast that after their best efforts to discredit Snowden, ranging from calling him nerd-faced to advocating the traitorous fiend be skinned alive, 55% still support him.

    @ Villager 20 Aug, 2013 – 2:46 pm
    “Re David Miranda, what is almost more disconcerting is that his laptop and other equipment could simply be confiscated? Is it really that simple?”

    Anyone traveling to the US (and I expect many other countries have similar laws) should be aware that Customs and Immigration has the legal right to seize all electronic devices and off-load all data. In major ports of entry they’re equipped to vacuum the data on site, so the traveler is not greatly inconvenienced. That’s been approved by the courts on the grounds it’s equivalent to a search for other contraband. Don’t know if it applies in transit areas.

    Local police have similar authority to seize and off-load data from mobile phones. Don’t know if that applies to computers and stand-alone cameras.

  • John Goss

    Mark, just seen it now sir. I’ve seen that footage from where your poster comes before, and there was a man who refused to pay his licence fee because of all the made up nonsense purporting to be news

    NR, what a world we live in! The people have got to fight back. They will start fighting back when the whole world economy collapses and it is too late to do anything about it. Now is the hour. Shelley was right. We are many, they are few.

  • lysias

    With the treatment of Miranda, compare the treatment of independent U.S. journalist Leah McGrath Goodman at Heathrow in 2011, also detained at great length under an obscure provision of law:

    A week later, I went home to the States to do other work and did not return to the UK until early September. I was on my way to speak at a bank conference in Salzburg, but had meetings in London and Jersey with other journalists. This time, the border check at Heathrow Airport asked me if I would go to a waiting area to answer additional questions about my stay. This had never happened to me before, but I was not very concerned and agreed. No one asked me any questions, though. Instead, a second border official took me to an empty room beneath the airport and simply locked the door behind me. I did not at any time consent to being imprisoned. My luggage, wallet, phone, bank cards and my identification were taken from me. If I’d been turned out on the street at that moment, I would have been utterly helpless to feed myself or prove who I was. There is no way to explain what this feels like until it happens to you, but until then I never realized the razor-thin line between feeling secure and feeling endangered.

    I asked the guards what was happening and I was handed a piece of paper that said, “You have been detained under paragraph 16 of Schedule 2 to the 1971 Act or arrested under paragraph 17 of Schedule 2 of that Act.” What did this mean? Was I being arrested? No one would say. I was fingerprinted and photographed. I asked the personnel watching me if I could call my solicitor or my consulate. “That’s what people always say,” one of the staffers said. I asked: What are my rights? A second staffer answered: “This is the border. You have no rights.”

    It got worse from there. For several hours, I waited for any concrete information about how long I would be trapped in a basement. The border guards repeatedly told me they needed time to go through my luggage and papers before deciding what questions to ask me. This struck me as an attempt to reverse-engineer a case against me. I demanded to return to the States unless there were grounds to keep me there. I was told by the border officials they could make things much more painful if I did not cooperate.

    At this point, I wanted to call my family to let then know where I was, but this, too, was denied. None of the officers would provide their full names and the paperwork they signed and occasionally handed me was indecipherable. Closed-circuit TV cameras were everywhere, but none of them took audio recording (which made sense, seeing what the officers were saying to me).

    The fascist world depicted by Terry Gilliam in the film Brazil is alive and well under the Heathrow airport.

    In all, I was there from 0645 GMT to 1900 GMT, 12 hours without food or sleep on the back of a redeye flight. Ultimately, I was denied entry to the UK and sent back to the U.S., the black stamp of death I’d always heard about, but never seen, punched in my passport. The two officers who interrogated me later that day asked very personal questions — some of them about where I lived, my exact addresses in New York and the Channel Islands, and some of them about the people who were closest to me. I was deeply reluctant to discuss my personal relationships or my addresses, as I got the feeling security and safety were not high on the UK Border Force’s priority list. Once the questions had ended, there was another hours-long wait, after which I was informed that I was being ousted. By the time I received the verdict, I did not care anymore; I just wanted to sleep, shower and eat — things, by the way, you cannot do under Heathrow Airport. Flying home, I lay across the plane seats and cried.

    Goodman’s mistake was apparently having admitted to officials on the island of Jersey that she was investigating corruption there.

  • Sofia Kibo Noh

    @Dreoilin 12 24pm

    “Oh Lord help me, look at this crap …”

    Indeed!

    What a lot of grovelling BS.

    Irish dignity neatly restored by Hugh O’Connel and other commenters.

    “Great how we look past the fact this guy supported the use of torture in Guantanamo Bay . ..or that he instituted drone attacks in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia!??
    But sure he’s a mighty man a pure sound auld skin …”

  • Flaming June

    David Miranda Heathrow detention: No 10 ‘kept abreast of

    No 10 was “kept abreast” of the decision to detain David Miranda, the partner of Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald, a spokesman has said.

    /..
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-23769324

    Interesting that David Miranda is from the same chambers that Cherie Bliar occupies.

    ~~~

    Will this go anywhere in our draconian system?

    David Miranda’s lawyers threaten legal action over ‘unlawful’ detention
    Partner of Guardian journalist Glenn Greenwald seeks return of equipment seized during nine-hour interrogation at Heathrow
    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/20/david-miranda-detention-glenn-greenwald

    ~~
    Apologies if above already posted. Have been out all day.

  • nevermind

    So what will they do if one’s laptop has no hard drive inserted? what are they going to look at?

    Further to silence when arrested, they do really hate it when you do not talk to them. From my experience on two occasions, you get to see almost every officer who is on duty, as they all ‘have a go’ at persuading you to change your mind.

    After giving them my name and asking them to inform my relevant embassy of my whereabouts they usually let it rest.
    That was the 1990’s, now they disrupt your travel pattern and up your costs of travel to make you answer their questions.

    If you have the time, decline, instead ask them whether they have been snooping on you and why you are being held up by them under the 2000 act.

    I hope that this will teach us all how to handle electronic information in future, or write letters. Silence will still be an option for me, what are they going to do? detain you without information at 1500,-/week? rip your arms off? or will they start threatening your nearest relatives? as we have seen just now.

    @all, thanks for the many appropriate links, and not so appropriate goatie stories.

  • Sofia Kibo Noh

    Herbie. 3 57pm

    ”Over arching narratives are essential and very important if people are to understand what’s going on. It seems to be one of the few mechanisms, beyond personal experience, through which people can assimilate new information…

    …In other words you have to challenge their narrative.

    Exactly. Thanks for bringing it up.

  • Flaming June

    The KL War Crimes Tribunal continues its work.

    ‘WHY is it that the murder of one man is considered a criminal act whereas the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocent people committed in wars, is not considered so? -Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad, former Prime Minister of Malaysia

    KUALA LUMPUR, 19 August 2013 – The Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Tribunal (KLWCT) will be hearing war crimes and genocide charges against Amos Yaron, a retired Israeli army general and the State of Israel from 21 to 24 August in Kuala Lumpur.

    This is the first time that war crimes charges will be heard against the retired general and the State of Israel in compliance with due legal process. The Kuala Lumpur War Crimes Commission (KLWCC), having received complaints from victims from Palestine (Gaza and West Bank) and the Sabra – Shatila refugee camps in Lebanon, in 2012, investigated these complaints resulting in the institution of formal charges on war crimes against the accused.

    The suffering of the Palestinian people have been well documented over the decades without any legal recourse being open to these people. Legal obstacles are placed in their path denying them the right to be heard. The international community too has failed to recognise their fundamental human right to be heard. The KLWCC founded in 2008 was established to fill this void and act as a peoples’ initiative to provide an avenue for such victims to file their complaints and let them have their day in a court of law.

    /..
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/state-of-israel-charged-for-crime-of-genocide-and-war-crimes-kuala-lumpur-tribunal/5346375

  • fedup

    First they came for Muslims, you said nothing, and now the bastards are coming for the rest of you!!!!! Well what do you know, oh the humanity of it all.

    Shutting the fucking barn door after, and all that shit. Suddenly rusbridger is getting interviewed whilst keeping stummed: “I cannot speculate on that” for sure you cannot , they have you by the balls mate, enjoy the squeeze! You deserve it mate.

    =====

    Fedup: along with Craig (huzzah for Craig) I do not subscribe to the view that ‘Zionists’ rule the world.

    Huzzah for flannelling and soft soaping over with, you can subscribe to anything you wish, it is a consumer society after all, but you cannot use the fucking slight of hand and shove in; ‘Zionists’ rule the world. That is a trick that you are not going to get away with this time!

    Try answering the question instead of using the opportunity to interject and do a Jon shoving what you want and projecting it, and then lecturing.

    The ziofuckwit are at the vanguard making the; unacceptable and intolerable notions such as land theft, murder, apartheid all to be common place and inverted arse about tit as necessary “evil”. This then aids and abets the rest of the plutocrats to pile in and get their dastardly plans implemented, after having acclimatised their wider audiences to the gorefest and injustices as a routine.

    I am inclined to think that the corporations, in which the military-industrial complex features largely but not solely, now increasingly set the agenda

    No shit, are you writing a paper on this too?

    I realise that this does not rise to generalised levels of fury, and apologise – I am quite capable of generalised levels of fury, I assure you.

    Yeah I have noticed it, having go at Mary, and targeting the undesirables around here.

  • Flaming June

    Well done Maduro. I don’t suppose there have been any similar actions from the West? I cannot find any that have done so.

    Venezuela Withdraws Its Ambassador from Egypt

    http://venezuelanalysis.com/news/9946

    Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro announced today that he would withdraw the country’s ambassador from Egypt because of the conflict there and confrontations between supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood and the defacto government, which has seen over 700 people killed.

    “We have witnessed a blood bath in Egypt…We warned that the coup against Morsi was unconstitutional. Morsi was kidnapped and the responsible party for what is occuring in Egypt is the empire, which has its hands in it,” said the head of state.

    He assured that, “The United States doesn’t have friends, it has interests, and what it wants is to control the planet”.

    Maduro reiterated that, “We are against a blood bath in Egypt, it is a set-back that is going to cost a lot to our brothers, the Arabic people”.

    He called on the Venezuelan people to be alert. “We can’t allow the hands of imperialism to enter Venezuela, we have to be the guarantee of independence,” he stressed.

    The original article has been abridged. Translation by Tamara Pearson for Venezuelanalysis.com

  • Flaming June

    Correction to mine at 5.18pm.

    Interesting that David Miranda’s BARRISTER is from the same chambers that Cherie Bliar occupies.

  • Dreoilin

    The ranting and over-reaction by Fedup/Passerby/Macky has become further unhinged.

    Meanwhile, I’m not sure what this fuss is about

    “The Munich-based Suddeutsche Zeitung has apologized for using a photo of the tracks at Auschwitz-Birkenau to illustrate a letter to the editor on the problems of Germany’s railway system.”

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-news/.premium-1.542564

    “Because of an editorial error on Monday, the photograph on the Letters to the Editor page that was intended to illustrate a letter about the problems at the Mainz Central Station has been replaced,” the paper’s correction read. “A photograph of the railway tracks to Auschwitz-Birkenau was published instead of the photograph that was chosen. We regret the error and ask for your forgiveness.”

    This is Suddeutsche’s second such apology in as many months. In July it ran a caricature that depicted Israel as a ravenous monster feeding on German weapons. In that case the newspaper said the cartoon had been mistakenly chosen from a stock library.

    Both the railway tracks and the cartoon that offended, have been reproduced in Haaretz.

  • BrianFujisan

    Herbie @ 3;57

    Well said, NR too,

    You can’t Beat the Peoples of the First nations ( America’s ) For wisdom

    “A man’s heart away from nature becomes hard; lack of respect for growing, living things soon leads to a lack of respect for humans too”.

    Luther Standing Bear

    Here’s an excerpt from a interesting New book Stickin’ it to the Matrix, by Dean Henderson
    with Some tips on how to possibly escape the rat race

    It starts with expensive property. You can’t afford it. Nor do you want it. Many who bought into the suburban housing boom now find themselves living in ghost neighborhoods, unable to sell the house that is now worth half what they paid for it. Do you think that was just another coincidence?
    Then there are the corporate factories and office towers, which city dwellers subsidize in all manner of underhanded ways while also being enslaved by one these welfare piggy facilities.
    When they are released each day from their daily milking shift, they are not so subtly nudged by the nightly TV programmers towards a matrix-owned shopping mall, amusement park or restaurant where they are taught to be relieved of their grubstake under the guise of “rewarding yourself”.
    Then there is the crime, the traffic, the noise, the nasty recycled sewage you call city water and the air pollution. Worst of all is the mean-spirited attitude you will get from most all of the other imprisoned wage slaves.
    Soon you will internalize this attitude yourself, becoming hardened, cynical and bitter. What Pink Floyd called, “alcohol soft middle age” is sure to follow. You will learn to hate the people and love the system. This in turn reinforces the matrix.
    What you need, man, and you need it bad, is a return to living in the natural world.

  • NR

    @ Komodo 20 Aug, 2013 – 4:17 pm
    “And every “progressive” with a beef against Greenwald who attempts to defend the UK’s actions does nothing more than prove Greenwald’s point. Governments that detain civil libertarian bloggers and journalists as terrorists deserve every heaping of scorn they get, as do those who defend them.”

    Some progressives take delight in the state apparatus targeting their enemies. They should consider that they may not always be in control, and even if they are politically, the people running the security machinery, whether military, government employees, contractors and sub-contractors, are seldom progressives themselves.

    The lists of Enemies of the State can now be resorted at a screen touch, perhaps into traditional Jews, Gypsies (Roma to be PC), defectives and gays. With gays, tradition calls that cute ones are diverted from the camps to serve their masters. Greenwald’s partner would get a pass. 🙂

    There’s also a level of the security state below govt. employees and contractor/mercenaries. There are a number of so-called cyber-security, citizen-vigilante, volunteer organizations, composed of retired military/police and housewives with way too much time on their hands, who monitor the Internet for miscreants (as defined by them) and harass or report them to the real police.

    Allegedly they have access to some Internet traffic, either provided by the govt. or telcoms, something not mentioned in the current debate. With the Boston bombing, the govt. provided some of them real-time feeds in an attempt to crowd-source the identification of the suspects from pics. Which quickly resulted in persons misidentified and falsely accused. No explanation of why the govt’s. own facial recognition software didn’t do the job, since passport/visa photos were on file.

    Many of these volunteer groups are located in the US north-west, Idaho, etc., an area long associated with old-time white supremacist organizations, and it’s safe to assume their sympathies are not with progressives.

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