The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
@ Vronsky
“Anyone resident in Scotland is entitled to vote in the referendum.”
_______________
Yes, that’s probably correct. But I think you’re more than right when you say that voter registration will be an issue. How about a Scot who happens to be resident (perhaps temporarily, for work reasons) in England at the time of registration/the referendum? Should, say, a Pole who might be working and resident in Scotland at that time, but whose stay may well be for a couple of years only, be eligible to vote? The issue of what you might call “Scottish by direct descent”, ie, one or both parents (not grandparents or further back) born in Scotland but their children were born “abroad” (England)?
I look forward with keen interest to the November White Paper.
If you are on the electoral roll, you can vote. It has nothing to do with ethnicity.
I may have been born in London, but i can’t vote for the mayor if i don’t live there.
Sky seem to be enjoying this. Note the words ‘thrown out’. Nice.
http://news.sky.com/story/1123466/illegal-immigration-raids-140-arrested
~~
Did you notice the image of the handcuff on the moving billboard?
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02629/Immigrant-billboar_2629522b.jpg
Promogroup – the company that trails the immigrant poster around (wasting fossil fuel the while) also have Promobikes, Promoscooters and Promovans! In fact any Promo you can think of. What Agent Cameron and his cohort would approvingly call ‘entrepreneurship’.
http://www.promobikes.co.uk/
OK to advertise American junk food though.
http://www.promobikes.co.uk/sliderimgs/12.jpg
re spot checks for illegal immigrants
Just a few comments :
1/. Can I assume that posters here agree that illegal immigration (I am talking about illegal economic immigration and not asylum seekers or refugees as defined by international conventions) is not a welcome phenomenon (for a variety of reasons, exploitation of the people concerned not being the least)?
2/. Can I assume that posters agree that the govt is entitled to do everything possible to combat the phenomenon and that this should include measures and actions to identify persons who have somehow gained entry? And that govt policy should not take the form of saying the equivalent of “we will do the utmost to stop illegal economic immigration at the point of entry but if you happen to overcome that hurdle then we will leave you in peace” (ie, pass GO and collect your £200)?
3/. Can I assume that actions and measures undertaken by the public authorities charged with upholding the law should, to the extent possible, be efficient and that this will inevitably involve, where appropriate, a measure of targeting?
(an example from a different area would be stopping motorists for a breathalyser)
4/. Do posters here agree with a couple of the comments reported above : for example, that these operations are akin to life in “Nazi Germany” or that being asked to identify oneself constitutes an erosion of individual liberties and freedoms, given that identification is required in most other areas of modern life in a complex state (driving licences, state benefits, bank accounts, taking up employment..etc)?
5/. Do posters consider that action against illegal economic immigration is an electioneering ploy, and if so, (1) does it matter (given that the matter is apparently one of some public concern, and (2) in which way it is more of an electioneering ploy than general economic policy, the NHS, public services in general…etc (also, apparently – and legitimately – matters of public concern?
6/. Finally, on a more practical level, what other measures would posters like to see the govt undertake in replacement of the measures being criticised, in order to counter illegal economic immigration wrt to illegal immigrants already inside the UK?
The above poster obviously hates the poor and immigrants and wants to abolish compassion.
“nothing like a few facts to put to rest the wilder notions cooked up by some” – dear Habbakuk, did you actually *read* the reports? Or even an extract from the reports? One was from the Telegraph, you know. Jemand: same questions. And what driving in quite different conditions – roads, weather etc – has to do with reports of how the system here works, I do not know.
Re your above post: there’s a general and visceral sense of shock which you clearly don’t share.
Very good talk by Craig in Belfast. Well attended – especially for the very first day of the festival. Interesting questions and discussion afterwards. I thought the whole thing went very well. (Craig’s sense of humour much appreciated, as ever.)
On the way back to our hotel, coming down the Falls Road, we had an egg thrown at our car. It hit the windscreen on the driver’s side, with a loud ‘Crack’. Totally unexpected. It was probably some youngsters fooling around.
Anyway, after a huge breakfast, we’re heading back south.
@Jemand; “just a discussion about the pretensions of people (in particular, lefties) who purport to feel it more than others and the superiority they think that it confers upon them”
Not a rather pointless exercise in second guessing & making rather snide assumptions ?
“compassion is of little or no value if it is absent of action. It is only an emotion, after all, and not an expression of commitment or effort to perform a moral duty”
Compassion is the natural empathy that we feel towards others when they are suffering, and there is no choice about it, you either feel it automatically or you are emotionally impaired; for some people who are sensitive enough to the plight of others, it is almost like a curse, as it is not a nice feeling to feel the suffering of others. Unlike the chicken & egg analogy, compassion is the root cause of any action and/or moral duty, and it is definately not something that somebody purposely feels in order to get high on an ego superiority trip (!), so instead of making assumptions about others who you only believe “purport” to care about the plight of others, you would be making much better sense if you could provide argumentation as to why you believe they are being insincere.
The “general and visceral sense of shock” probably extends no further than the Twitter mob of middle-class lefties that can always be relied upon to kick up a storm over such things. The mob can’t wait for something like the “racist van” to come along so they can take to Twitter, brimming with self-righteousness, and chant their “Racist Tory scum” / “Fuck off back to Eton” slogans whilst patting each other on the back for their latest efforts with Photoshop. The reality is that the “racist van” is just a gimmick and a sop to the voters; most illegal immigrants probably couldn’t even read it anyway, and would likely not give a toss even if they could.
Nevermind: I was absolutely NOT claiming the royals and the “stale establishment” were necessary or desirable. If bad people don’t make wars, how do you rate GW Bush vis-a-vis Iraq? Good person? Good advisors? It wasn’t an apathetic America that allowed that to happen. It was a gung-ho America which encouraged it to happen. An America (arguably) misinformed by bad people. Sorry, but I don’t buy your thesis.
Necessary for whom? Ask rather necessary for what. For some protection of our national interest and claim to autonomy against other national interests and claims. Granted, this is overhyped by our “leaders”, but it is still a valid requirement.
Yes, the Gibraltar killings were shameful. I’m no fan of Rumsfeld, but stuff happens. The IRA weren’t exactly models of restraint either.
Sorry, H. I wasn’t a practitioner, it would be dishonest of me to let that go. I managed five years without being within 100 miles of a shot fired in anger, and I’m very happy about that. (I did some fairly arduous stuff though.)
Anon: Fuck off back to Eton.
Good on you, K. For Queen and Country!
‘“general and visceral sense of shock” probably extends no further than the Twitter mob of middle-class lefties’
this has to have been said by one of the middle class bitterati. ‘probably’. i mean, cleaners and careworkers don’t give two hoots about fairness, decency, humanity, politeness, or their slightly tanned neighbours, the oiks*
*sarcasm
For Queen and Country!
No. To get away from my bloody awful parents…Mail readers.
More on the necessity to pursue British war criminals.
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/news/content/view/full/136051
Racist Australia. I see we used the services of the visa issuing company VFS until it was discovered that the confidentiality of applicants was breached.
Australian Immigration – the Snowden Link?
by Murray Hunter / August 1st, 2013
With the Australian Department of Immigration and Citizenship already under siege over the treatment of refugees in detention camps, deaths in custody, and the abandonment of the principals of the UN Convention on refugees in regards to boat people, another disturbing aspect of the department’s handling of its portfolio is emerging with the recent appointment of VFS Global as the sole processing partner of visa applications for entry into Australia.
This appointment process of VFS appears to have been undertaken very quietly without the usual press releases accompanying a major policy decision. The lack of transparency in this agreement is dubious at best, where the department selected a single company as a service delivery partner to handle visa applications and the taking of biometric data from applicants on its behalf, which has effectively created a monopoly for VFS Global
[..]
The VFS-Snowden Link?
The London based VFS Global is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Kuoni Group, a public-listed company headquartered in Zurich, Switzerland. What makes VFS interesting is that the chairman of the parent company, Henning Boysen was closely involved with Booz, Allan & Hamilton in the area of predictive intelligence, the same company that Edward Snowden worked for. Like Booz, Allan & Hamilton, WFS Global almost solely acts as a contractor for Government in data collection services. Two other directors were previously involved with Boston Consulting Group which has long been suspected of having close links with the US intelligence community.
[..]
/..
http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/08/australian-immigration-the-snowden-link/
Nice stuff.
K – I’d still have loved my parents had they been Morning Star readers.
Technicolour – if you have dropped the capitals and punctuation to try and give the impression that you are down with the plebs, then it’s not working!
“British war criminals.”
“Racist Australia.”
Obviously you have to have a certain few characteristcs to be deemed a war criminal or racist by the Murrayistas!
Wow. A humanist speaks.
‘In a television interview later, Kerry said of the drone strikes, “I think the program will end as we have eliminated most of the threat and continue to eliminate it.”
“I think the president has a very real timeline and we hope it’s going to be very, very soon,” he told Pakistan Television, when asked whether the U.S. had a timetable for ending drone strikes aimed at militants in Pakistan.’
Kerry hopes Pakistan drone strikes to end ‘very soon’
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/01/us-usa-pakistan-kerry-idUSBRE97015B20130801
curses, anon, you have seen through my cunning disguise but I can dissemble no longer. No more will the Duc de Richelieu hide in the shadows. Doff, peasants, doff, to your master!
(the laziness of RSI, actually, but good try, Anon, as we all kno the plebs cant spel, innit)
What we always knew. We are the poodle of the US.
Snowden Leak: GCHQ ‘Paid £100m’ By US
Fears about the relationship between US and UK spy agencies are raised in the latest documents from whistleblower Edward Snowden.
http://news.sky.com/story/1123562/snowden-leak-gchq-paid-100m-by-us
“If you are on the electoral roll you can vote”
Actually, that that is *not* so was my point. My American wife (for example) is a US citizen and although a long term resident is not eligible to vote in British elections. However she expects to be able to vote in the referendum. She is a very active campaigner for a ‘Yes’ vote – in general I notice that non-Scots find it easier to recognise the referendum question as a simple one with an obvious answer.
Many people eligible to vote in 2014 will never have been on the electoral roll before – non-EU citizens and 16 year olds (EU citizens already have the UK franchise, I am told). It remains to be seen if British citizens who avoided electoral registration in order to evade the poll tax will allow their existence to be recorded now. I very much doubt it – having done a lot of door-to-door canvassing I notice that some people value their invisibility.
K – I’d still have loved my parents had they been Morning Star readers.
Maybe they were lovable. Pity they didn’t pass it on.
“No more will the Duc de Richelieu hide in the shadows”
More like just another self-hating, middle-class loser with an axe to grind!
K – Hang on a minute – wasn’t it you describing your parents as bloody awful because of their choice of newspaper?
And do tell, was it something that happened in the military or a lack of love from your parents that led you to become the most dangerous thorn in the side of the British Establishment?
30 years minimum in jail for each of Daniel Pelka’s murderers.
“More like just another self-hating, middle-class loser with an axe to grind!” – don’t be too hard on yourself, please. I think this obsession with class is peculiar: where does it come from?
Two mentions constitutes an obsession?
From the Daily Mail, Technicolour. Along with all the rest of it.
Lovably – K
Harrible
You remember surely back in the days of the Captivity, and you were taking in food to Daniel in his lions’ den and we were a bedraggled crowd of oppressed slaves? And some people said we should get out of this mess through practising our religion and some people said through lying, spying and political manipulation? And the political people got on fine and became freemen, selling their kinsmen to the authorities and the proper Muslims got targeted, droned/ fed to lions?
yeh? The political people got military contracts for delivering essentials and so-called law-keeping. The ordinary people who saw through the politics became refugees. It doesn’t matter whether it is escape from a totally corrupt post-soviet Eastern European country or from a Zionist progrom to un-pick Islam in Pakistan, the people who come to safety are not leaving because of economic reasons. They come because they have been stitched up by the political opportunists from their own community who have played the Empire’s political game against their own people. (In Afghanistan, using the good name of the Taliban).
In Syria or any other Zio-torn country, (Zio including the ravages of Communism as well as the ravages of the War on Islam,) it is only a tiny segment of the society that is supported by Empire to subdue the rest. There are many resistance groups emerging in Syria who protect their communities from Zio-political Islam and ordinary criminality. The Great Game of oppressing Islam and removing Muslim assets has been transformed by the internet into a miserable game of conkers played by thieves and brigands. And trolls.
Why do you resent the instinct for survival and freedom amongst refugees and why do you support our own UK state/NWO/Zio oppression who are starting a new civil war in Egypt in order to gain the water resources that feed the Nile for Israel? You are a truly Harrible specimin of hasbara trollery. Harrible harrible harrible.