The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
Habby gives a long explanation, arguing that there is some utility in allowing the authorities to detain whomsoever they please, ask them whatever they want, deny them a right to silence and all without any probable cause whatsoever.
Welcome to Habbyworld. Enjoy your trip.
The miniscule number of convictions, even arrests compared to the enormous number of people detained speak for themselves.
The polite response is that these measures are disproportionate, undermine confidence in the law and alienate large numbers of innocent people.
Then there’s the flawed narrative, but that’s another story.
One of the comments from linked RT story above.
Its been a mind game all along with Bradley methinks.
They try to say they’ll get him on Aiding they Enemy in their pretend war on terror.
Then chuck years of sentence around 130, 90, 60, then the people will regard U.S of being kinda gentle when they give him ONLY 35 years, ( but lets not forget the Bastards Tortured him first ) they sure did underestimate global support for Bradley, The
wee Brave soul
No. 3
It’s always a significant tell when habby does a runnner, and I fully expect this one to run and run from the narrative lance. So I’ll just number the occasions asked at the top of each request.
===========================================
Habby claims wrt the murderous Apache crew:
” I’m surprised that they appear not to have been subject to any sanction.”
Why are you surprised?
AA; Cui Bono?
lets remind ourselves that these two Reuters journalists and other civilians killed by the ‘crazy horse’ cowards, had names, were doing a job of reporting.
Just as Journalists today are filtered and scrutinised for the information they about to reveal, these two had aims and objectives, i.e to report from Baghdad.
They had names as well and faces and commitments. Saeed fed three other families and his own, he had 4 children and joined Reuters before the Iraq war, meaning, that he was known by the US and they had his accreditation on their books.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saeed_Chmagh
Namir was young, one of Reuterst star recruits who supplied ‘seminal images’ from Mosul, according to his colleagues and NYT journalists.
Both were killed with armour piercing 30mm high velocity rounds from an Apache helicopter, shot from great height.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namir_Noor-Eldeen
“It’s more than 17 times the next-longest sentence ever served” for turning over secret material to the media, said Elizabeth Goitein, co-director of the Liberty and National Security Program at the Brennan Center for Justice.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/08/21/us-usa-wikileaks-manning-idUSBRE97J0JI20130821
Reuters reaction today on hearing the sentence by Colonel, soon to be major general, Lind. Bitch!
I thank Bradley Manning for exposing these hideous war criminals, cowards, may they rot in hell.
Here are the two versions again and you can see that they regard this as a turkey shoot, unarmed children, civilians and cameramen, some already injured, helpless.
http://www.collateralmurder.com/
Ben, i thought Habby spelt it out as ” I’m surprised that they appear not to have been subject to any sanction.”
Thats more than most people have highlighted upstream on this thread. Rather more banging on about David Miranda’s temporary inconvenience. I’m not trying to minimise the latter and maybe i’m wrong to compare, but i see Habby’s position above showing his heart is right-on-the-button.
Lets give peace a chance old friend. (Ageism spotters please note 🙂 )
Remind me of the line from one of Simon n Garfunkel songs… I’m older than i once was, younger than i’ll be, that’s not unusual.
Two really depressing items on BBC London News tonight, in no particular order.
1` Boris Johnson has approved the building of a refuse incinerator by Viridor in the London Borough of Sutton for a SW London waste partnership. It is not for residual waste. It is for any waste. Other waste operators and councils will pile in with their plans now. My borough sends 70% of the refuse collected to landfill in spite of brown bins for garden waste, green bins for kitchen waste (which is later transported down to Dorset!), black bins for refuse, separate recycling boxes for metal and plastics and for paper and card. On recycling day, several lorries trundle round in turn emptying these containers. Fortnightly for refuse. They are spending £17m on a new fleet of lorries to take some new bins into which we put refuse AND recycling. It is a total farce and a scam to make money for the plastic containers and the waste operators. The question of why we create so much waste has never been addressed.
Local paper report
http://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/10626375.Incinerator_decision_backed_by_London_Mayor_Boris_Johnson/
2. London currently has the highest incidence of TB in any Western capital. There used to be 40 X-ray vans. There is now only one in use which has travelled 300,000 miles. Broken Britain. Yes and an epidemic coming unless Hunt takes action.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-23777685
Just for clarity that’s not my comment. I just copied it from the comments at the article on RT posted by “Jan”. You probably all worked that out.
“I don’t understand the reach of the US in these matters. How are foreigners, committing what may or may not be crimes in other countries, subject to US law?”
As far as I know, that guy was born in the U.S. and came to live in Ireland around 6 years of age. I assume this would make him a U.S. citizen. And if he was hosting the stuff, is it not debatable where the crime was committed? Jurisdictions become a little fuzzy when you’re dealing with the internet, no?
He was described in the media here as a huge purveyor of child porn.
I used to have a Blogger blog. Hosted in the U.S. If I had posted something illegal, where would I have committed the offense? I always find that subject tricky.
Channel 4 News reporting that many people hid in their basements but the gas was denser than air and that’s where they died. I take back wishing that I had a basement now.
Sorry Villager. I don’t get it. Maybe in the next life 🙂
“I would not immediately assume there being any logic or rationality in the acts of any of the western governments at the moment. To me they definitely resemble a suicide cult.”
Perhaps chaos and disorder is in their interest?
When there is chaos and disorder domestically, to whom do the peeps run for protection.
When there is chaos and disorder in foreign fields, will not those foreign fields be easier to control and prove less of a threat to the homeland.
As Chomsky shows time and time again, from the perspective of elites it’s all totally rational.
It only seems irrational if you’re informed by an incorrect narrative.
Frank Gardner writes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23777201
Actually Frank, The Russian Government says it was a false flag attack and that there is a media campaign by its enemies. That’s Fucking Russia saying that in public Frank! You lot really trying to get us all killed as fast as possible?
Ben: “Maybe in the next life ” Lol, yes, but you sure you want another one? I’m done — give me moksha!
“… wears your religion on your sleeve…” Villager.
And what religion might that be, Villager?
************
Alleged gas attack in Syria – sounds utterly horrendous. Whodunnit?
In some ways, it will be ‘useful’ as a catalyst for NATO military action, regardless of whodunnit. And that may have been precsiely the aim, to draw NATO into the fight. As (to his cerdit) Jeremy Bowen keeps saying on the BBC that there are many unasnwered questions and that there would be absolutely no reason or gain for the regime in deploying chemical weapons in this way, at that location and at this juncture; they have been doing well, militarily, in thsoe Damscene suburbs, using comventional weapons and they well know that such use would bring down a massive military rsponse and the regime would be destroyed.
For the ‘rebels’, however, having NATO ‘intervene’ en masse and overtly (as opposed to Special Forces, covertly) is exactly what they’ve been asking for, for two years.
I have no time for the Assad regime. But the Jihadists who are fighting the regime – and they form the most powerful groups – are worse. It is, of course, a proxy war b/w Saudi/UAE and Iran, or b/w the USA/NATO and Russia. Monstrous, in every way. There are, no ‘goodies’.
As US ‘old hands’ suggested, Obama telling everyone what his “red line” was unwise; better to keep people guessing, they said.
Are Special Forces (UK/USA) involved? Think of Iraq.
I would refer people back to Carla Del Ponte and the UN’s observation from a couple of months ago, that she/they had strongly suspected the rebels, and not the regime, of using chemical weapons. This observation appeared in the news for 24 hours and then seems to have faded from the reportage.
Questions were raised today on BBC radio about the rebels’ ability to deliver such a weapon. In fact, chemical weapons are easy to deploy, much easier than nuclear or biological weapons – and they have been, since at least WW1.
These are all unanswered questions.
“In fact, chemical weapons are easy to deploy, much easier than nuclear or biological weapons” — Suhayl
A so-called “expert” on Sky News said the exact opposite! He said they took a lot of expertise to deploy – “up to PhD level of expertise” he said. I was wondering was he talking through his a*se. 🙂
He also said, or at least suggested, that Assad had the necessary rockets to fire them and that the rebels “didn’t”. He then trailed off into his beard (well, not exactly but)
Obama’s red line speech was delivered on August 20th, 2012. And one year later this happens. Who’s sick sense of humour was that? Not Assad’s I’m sure.
“David Miranda’s temporary inconvenience…” Villager.
Orwellian phrase. Do you care so little for the freedom of the 4th Estate in Britain? Tomorrow, they may come to ‘inconvenience’ you or I. And then, because the ‘Mirandas’ and ‘Greenwalds’ have been ‘inconvenienced’ into silence, there will be no Miranda/Greenwald to protest our ‘inconvenience’.
Presumably, the people locked up forever in the American Gulag are experiencing ‘a permanent inconvenience’?
Suhayl Saadi
21 Aug, 2013 – 7:27 pm
“… wears your religion on your sleeve…” Villager.
And what religion might that be, Villager?’
How can i politely tell you to go find your way, Suhayl. Find someone else to go play your little games.
Dreoilin, at 7:35pm, today.
Exactly. Soldiers in WW1 trenches delivered chemical weapons by hand. The wind often blew the wrong way and… But they are dead easy to deliver. Controlling them once delivered is more difficult. But Jihadists wouldn’t care about that, they’re happy to die, as long as they as many other people with them as they can. And if Special Forces delivered it, well, the sky’s the limit.
“How can i politely tell you to go find your way, Suhayl. Find someone else to go play your little games.” Villager.
Oh, no need to be polite – we’re all ‘grown-ups’ here. Is it not you who is playing the games? Tell me, to what “religion” were you referring? What religion do I supposedly “wear on [my] sleeve”?
So if we believe Russia how do we all feel to be part of an “Alliance” which has just killed hundreds with chemical weapons and is perhaps now on the brink of taking us into a nuclear war?
And, far from commenting on Heathrow’s torture methods, or the calcified diplomacy around the Rock of Gibraltar, sovereign squables, for decades, and reason enough, so cites NATO, to refuse countries membership, well, when its Scotland that is!
our bat boy billiard head Hague squawks mouthy tirades at this so called chemical weapons use. There was evidence of Al Nusra and the Muslim Brotherhood and some of the EU jihadis purchasing chems and using them, now that they have routed a few arsenals, they have more of the stuff.
Further, they have been pictured and videoed as being ultra hardline, even on their own men, so RT might have a point. Batty squawking, plus the worst excesses, I use anything to get on TV, Nut jobs could have easily shot at their own, delioberately forcing an inflated situation,
so called ‘forcing the Wests hand’, as if they weren’t ready, ‘waiting in the wings were…..’ headline written, clutching their nuts whilst saying good bye to loved one’s through ABC masks. All that in baking heat.
The stories started with Iraq opening its border after previous running a tight ship. They have been told to by make my day Boom bama, to fire up the jets engines and load the 500 pound laser guided bunker busting arse grinding bombs.
So they do as they like until the time approaches for the planet to die.
all legs up!
Villager
I must say you’ve sent my eyebrows up through my hair today.
‘deliberately’ pardone.
Here is one of the pieces which appeared in May 2013 wrt Carla del Ponte/the UN, but there are many from that specific time. then, little more. So, Carla Del Ponte and the UN at that time did not see any problem with delivery by paramilitary forces of chemical weapons. It does not require a PhD. It just requires a hand, a working index finger, even.
http://www.france24.com/en/20130506-syria-un-del-ponte-chemical-weapons-gas-rebels-assad
(sigh) in the interests of fairness, wld point out that name-calling like ‘havenosack’ is pretty sad too. and compared to what Manning is facing I can see why you’d call Miranda’s experience a ‘temporary inconvenience’ – if you ignored the naked machinations of power and the vicious implications behind it, that is.
“So, Carla Del Ponte and the UN at that time did not see any problem with delivery by paramilitary forces of chemical weapons. It does not require a PhD. It just requires a hand, a working index finger, even.”
I can well believe it. But sure, haven’t they had special forces there teaching them how to “safeguard and store chemical weapons”?
I read that somewhere in the mainstream, and frankly, I sneered.
(I should be off reading a book. But for the first time, the Whispernet wi-fi for Kindle has let me down, and I have no reception. So my two books have not downloaded. Anyone else had a problem?)
Villager muses, “Would Obama have the courage to issue a presidential pardon, even on his last day in office? Yes we can, but that is not who we are.”
I seriously doubt that O’Bomber, after spending his time in office persecuting more whistleblowers (truth-tellers) than every other US president _combined_, would suddenly turn around and pardon any of his victims on the way out. Particularly not such a high profile example.