The Respectability of Torture
St Mary’s University College, Thurs 1st August, 7.30pm
Craig Murray, former British ambassador to Uzbekistan, was a whistleblower who was removed from his ambassadorial post by Tony Blair for exposing the Tashkent regime‟s use of rape and systematic torture, including the boiling to death of political opponents. He has also spoken out against Central Asia‟s appalling dictatorships, regimes which are allies of the West, involved in torture and rendition, and was accused of threatening MI6‟s relationship with the CIA. Now a human rights activist, author and broadcaster, he outlines the dynamics of torture and the hypocrisy of incriminated Western governments.
My first public appearance for a while will be in Belfast on 1 August where I shall be giving a talk. Long term readers of this blog will recall that, while my focus is largely on international affairs, the domestic political achievements I most hope to see are a united Ireland and an independent Scotland.
@ nevermind 21 Aug, 2013 – 6:09 pm
“Thanks for that FEDEX link, Someone, so we do not have to use the service of Obummers foot soldiers anymore and rather use go betweens and private mail servers in future.”
Maybe not. “That leaves FedEx and UPS with the task of stopping illegal shipments from sources the government will not divulge.
The comparison that we’ve made is a no-fly list. It’s as if the government were to go to major commercial airlines and accuse them of some level of criminal activity if they were to allow somebody on the no-fly list onto one of their planes without providing them a no-fly list,” Fitzgerald said. “What we want here is the no-fly list for online pharmacies. If they are aware of some level of illegal activity by some number of pharmacies, simply provide us that list and we will stop providing service. It’s a very simple solution.”
http://www.wnd.com/2013/03/now-big-brother-targets-your-fedex-ups-packages/
@Dreoilin 21 Aug, 2013 – 7:03 pm
“NR: “I don’t understand the reach of the US in these matters. How are foreigners, committing what may or may not be crimes in other countries, subject to US law?””
“As far as I know, that guy was born in the U.S. and came to live in Ireland around 6 years of age. I assume this would make him a U.S. citizen. And if he was hosting the stuff, is it not debatable where the crime was committed? Jurisdictions become a little fuzzy when you’re dealing with the internet, no? He was described in the media here as a huge purveyor of child porn.”
He would be a US citizen, but I don’t think that is what determines jurisdiction. I presume his activities are illegal under local law, so the logical thing would be for the FBI to inform Irish police and have him arrested and tried there?
Wasn’t their a recent case where the US tried to extradite a UK teen hacker, and the UK govt. finally refused extradition?
@ AlcAnon 21 Aug, 2013 – 8:41 pm
“Any chance we can get the Queen and Charles to abdicate overnight so that we can get William on the throne tomorrow so he can get the treason trials started once he finds out more “stuff” and before he has a chance to calm down?”
I envision Her Majesty, Philip and Charles all hauled off to the Tower in the golden coach amidst all the pageantry and pomp for which the British are famous. Great tourist attraction. Billions watch world-wide. Commemorative plates and souvenirs.
100s of millions in revenue.
Good to see Daniel Ellsberg politely skewering Charles Crawford as ‘ignorant’ of the facts and ‘offensive’ in his characterisation of Bradley Manning in their Newsnight debate tonight.
Crawford came across as an ill-briefed toady way out if his depth in the head to head.
Heh, thanks Fedup, and relax Villager. There’s no need for you to be angry, or whatever it is. Chill, as Krishnamurti may once have said!
Small (Swedish) whisky, to allow me to lose the plot in a good way, then bed. Anyone in similar timezone, sleep well.
Fedup, at 10:23pm and after, yes, I think your analysis wrt Syria is likely to be accurate, thanks. This is more-or-less what I too am hearing from some Syrian people.
“However you are right not all prisoners in Saudi are low life scum in fact many revolutionary heroes are caught up in the clutches of the al Saud torturers and henchmen, and are detained indefinitely based on trumped up charges and at times even sentenced in show trials.” Fedup
This also is true. Reformists as well, in and out of gaol, sometimes more in than out. It’s a police state. So is Syria, of course. So is every Arab country, to varying degrees. They are all ‘Mukhabarat’ (secret police) states. But accepting that they are all police states, Syria, like Libya, had many good things about it, too, for its people, Christians and Muslims. All that has been destroyed.
TC the senior posters comment was unprovoked — do you understand that? And if dry up is not an attack so is you”re dried out (ie shriveld) not an attack. You might be confused but my mirror is clear. If you don’t want stuff don’t dish it out. Simple enough?
“Jon you poor bastard, you must have the patience of Job.” Fedup
Jon is indeed a reincarnation of Hazrat Ayub (but with Swedish whisky).
On which note, goodnight, all.
“Crawford came across as an ill-briefed toady way out if his depth in the head to head.”
Hot Damn, Jives. Don’t you think anyone else wants to see?
Villager: I have found that the term ‘ziofuckwits’ is actually rather too affectionate and -what is the word – habituating? for the policies of the current minority supported governments. I think it implies an easy familiarity with the policies of murder and repression which actually work against the person using the term and trying to oppose such policies. However, having friends in Gaza, if not family, I can fully understand the desire to use one of the worst words in the UK language possible to describe the people who institute such policies. Can you not?
I think one of the most powerful things about To Shoot an Elephant (have you seen it?) is that the people in the Gazan ambulance crews do not bother with invective: they are simply trying to save lives. And I would go with their example any day. But to not understand how it must feel to see your family and friends half starved and bombed – how can you not?
Tech,
Here’s another of my sources on the Geneva Conventions
If you scroll down the page you will see liks Fro
The First, Second, Third, and Fourth Geneva Conventions
http://www.ppu.org.uk/learn/texts/doc_geneva_con.html
Never mind about freedom of speech. Now we’re losing the freedom to choose what we listen to.
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora-barrows-friedman/students-forced-attend-re-education-program-designed-israel-lobby-group
I’m surprised that there is anyone unaware of Bronson, he was the subject of a 2009 film and has published numerous books.
Since being first locked up in 1974 he’s been released several times and on each occasion proved unable to stay out of trouble. Whilst in prison he’s shown himself to be unstable, something he himself acknowledges, staging one man riots, attacking prison staff and other inmates without provocation and taking hostages on several occasions.
For reasons that escape me he’s become some sort of a cause celebre amongst a section of the chattering classes who wouldn’t want him living anywhere near them if he ever was released.
Brian, thanks very much.
Fuck THIS TIME tech, that was the wrong Link Useful info though,
meant Give you this Link
I think it’s likely the Fourth Geneva Convention you are most interested in
http://www.icrc.org/ihl.nsf/INTRO/380?OpenDocument
“Fuck THIS TIME tech”, Brian
… as Zeus said to Kronos.
[Mod: removed another attack on FJ – FJs response, as you know, was provoked. Criticism of mod left standing]
Show me the original provocation please…
TC: “Can you not?”
No i don’t lower my standards in times of pressure.
Obviously, a partisan site, but (and) worth a read, for the other view to that in the UK’s MSM:
“He added that Syria has clear-cut evidence on the use of chemical weapons by the armed terrorist groups through eyewitnesses and soil and air samples, stressing that the Syrian state did not and will not use these weapons –in case they exist- under any circumstances.” [quoted from the article]
Much else of interest wrt the number of places the paramiliatries have come from, the states facilitauing them and so on.
http://sana.sy/eng/21/2013/08/21/498503.htm
Suhayl …Lol…OOOPs
Jon: “Chill, as Krishnamurti may once have said!”
And you ascribe it to Krishnamurti? Shows your class then, aligned with tea-towels LOL
I’m very chilled to read that so i can know how wrong you are and you prove my hunch 🙂
Oh, Villager, I started trying to search for the many many examples of you being beastly, in between the ones of you being ‘spiritual’ and gave up because it honestly made me feel ill. If you have family or friends currently being tortured, killed, imprisoned, starved, then please let us know, because otherwise this – well, it is all just abstract nonsense, isn’t it.
Thanks for your time: off to bed. It was good to have this, anyway.
technicolour : “I have found that the term ‘ziofuckwits’ is actually rather too affectionate…”
WOW! No wonder you guys can’t get along with Habbabkuk because apart from his intellect, you guys can’t stand the fact that he consistently uses distinguished language and never let one of you, who threw an *extraordinary* amount of shit his way, get the better of him. The strongest C word he’s used here is Chump, which many of the Eminences are amply pre-qualified for, with the shallow level that passes for debate here.
And TC don’t patronise me, i don’t need your approval on how i’m doing with sharing love and compassion in this world and accordingly refuse your invitation to submit to your judgment.
And if he knows he can’t win, he goes away.
Villager, as with everyone on this board, we are not a million miles away from each other. I think, with my last post, you should read the whole thing, and will ask you, as I asked Habbakuk:
have you seen To Shoot An Elephant?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXHB2dnd42Q&list=PLx8pbmU7TME96LSeM0-60fm2Ys1ftOAsc
now really, good night!
No i haven’t TC and if i’m not inclined to will you be judging me or are you implying its a prequalification to either access this ite or standby the Palestinian peoples? Does the documentary explain why the Arabs are such a divided bunch and that Saudi Arabia for all its clout has delivered zilch to Palestine?
And Jon please don’t let this request be buried in the back and forth of conversation here:
“Villager
21 Aug, 2013 – 11:38 pm
[Mod: removed another attack on FJ – FJs response, as you know, was provoked. Criticism of mod left standing]
Show me the original provocation please…”
I might be wrong — prove me or prove yourself wrong, in which case your moderation is either biased or whimsical or both.
NR,
I’m thinking the Queen and Charles are more victims than anything else. Still she could have acted at any time but instead let the “dark forces” run over the top of her. But then I drink far too much. Especially these days.
You are right about the royal Family, AA. They are raised as cattle with a pedigree, not reared as human beings. But I am weary with empathy at times. Whatever became of personal responsibility?
Yes, that’s right! Definitive proof of Mister H’s sagacity, I’d say. If one of us, in an excess of enthusiasm, should importune him with an impossible task such as exculpating the Zionist genocidaires of Israel, he will not be drawn! No indeed. He tactfully sidesteps the issue, hinting that his swarthy friends at Narus and Verint know who’s who (And ever-so-frighteningly, too! How we quake under their Argus eyes!) then, not another peep about it.
Oh, it’s a dirty job and someone has to do it, no doubt, in Kuala Lumpur now and, one of these days, in the Hague, but Mister H is not about to take on such a hopeless task. Eminently sensible, I’d say. Leave Bibi to his outcast fate. Piling onto convicts, that his strong suit.
Here you are again Jon for your ready reference:
“Flaming June
21 Aug, 2013 – 5:01 pm
Would it be on topic if I gave Habbabkuk an IRISH linen teatowel (made in Co Down of course) and asked him to dry up!
Plenty of choice. Even one commemorating the royal birth. A snip at £8.15”
http://www.ulsterweavers.com/tea_towels_11/
Btw, what is about all the men folk going on about their alcohol at night etc, in one recent case of a relatively unknown writer about his drugs? Is it a macho thing or do you just like to advertise the fact that you are escapists, and unaware escapists at that!