If a country breaches an International Convention, that in no sense makes it legal in international law for other countries to bomb it. Otherwise Britain should certainly be bombed for continual and flagrant breaches of the UN Convention against Torture in the context of extraordinary rendition, and for breaches of several international arms control treaties with regard to the planned acquisition of a new, enhanced, and ruinously expensive, Trident missile system.
Even if we accept that the Assad regime was responsible for chemical weapons attacks, that does not give a right to bomb Syria. Why the lunatic bloodlusters all over our screens – including recycled Blairites who should be in jail – think that blowing children to pieces ourselves is the correct response to horrible pictures of dead children, is something no TV journalist has had the guts to ask them.
Even the lunatic warmonger Blair felt the need to bolster the almost non-existent legal arguments for the attack on Iraq with a claim, however ridiculous, that there was imminent danger of an attack by Iraq on British sovereign territory with WMD – in that case the British military bases on Cyprus. Yet another reason, incidentally, that those colonial remnants must urgently be returned to the Cypriots. If Britain had been in genuine imminent danger of attack, that would indeed have been a justification of some validity. On Syria we have merely the claim that some civilians have been destroyed by chemicals; a terrible thing, but when hundreds of thousands have already been eviscerated by white hot metal, and horribly murdered by all side in this gruesome civil war, not the most logical of spurs to action against only one side in particular.
That the Assad regime was responsible for the chemical weapons attacks is perfectly possible but very, very far from certain. Particularly as those who claim to have the most certainty about it are precisely those who lied repeatedly about WMD. That the Assad regime should risk this action now it is winning the war seems peculiar, to say the least. But the truth is that even if it was Assad himself, nobody else has any legal right to intervene in this civil war without the express authority of the UN Security Council, and there is no possibility of that.
Many on the right are arguing that the Security Council is irrelevant, but we should not bomb anyway as we have no idea of the long term result. That is true but still short sighted. The same prudence should apply to the consequences of destroying international law and the authority of the UN. To do that might seem smart to the neo-cons when the USA is the most powerful military force on earth and we in the UK are its sidekick. But within my lifetime China will be the most powerful military force on earth.
The neo-cons may feel that destroying the idea of international restraint, in favour of might is right, is to their advantage, but that is simply further proof of their quite extraordinary short sightedness and stupidity.
Chalbi? Curveball? No, Idris.
http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/08/28/20231217-assad-assassination-attempt-may-have-prompted-chemical-weapons-strike?lite
Craig, you are the best!
Anyway, surely, if we feel we should be doing something, we should be urging a diplomatic solution. I believe Assad is happy to talk but the US is blocking.
Welcome back Craig, a rare sane voice while the media urges us into another absurd bloody confrontation.
I watched the Parliamentary debate this afternoon and was surprised that Miliband had turned. I’d heard it was a fait a complis. I felt relieved.
It’s mid week but I felt that averting war was worthy of a celebration, so I went out for a 6 pack. Came home, Not sure which channel it was, but it was Menzies Campbell, and he was pissed as a fart and rambling on smuggly about the second vote… Being a Fifer and not too enamoured with the Labour usual candidates, I used to vote for that mingin B.
There he was telling the TV audience that the UN could be pushed to the side because Tony Blair in 99 had set a precedent.
So I found out where Ming lives in Cupar, and the next time he’s hame and I see sheets hingin I’m going to set my lum aff.
“the technological lead enjoyed by the US at the moment”
Hmm, not to sure on that. F22 Raptor is suffocating it’s pilots, it’s $35 bn a pop, needs ridiculous amount of maintenance between flights, has to have approximate 3 support trucks per fighter, requires full length runway. On the other hand the Sukhoi SU38 (which outperforms F22 in all combat-critical areas) requires 1 truck and an hour maintenance between flights and can be launched from a dual carriage-way. It costs a fraction of the F22 as well.
Then there is the S300, superior to the US patriot and no NATO counter-defence. There are the anti-ship missiles like the SS-N-22 again there is no defence against them.
So, basically, there are absolutely no guarantees of a NATO victory and if Russia looked remotely threatend by the US China would undoubtedly intervene. Chinese tech is very advanced, do not be fooled the media. Look at their manned space-program, it’s bloody impressive. Their software skills are also legendary, and in an era of electronic equipment based warfare that could be very telling.
Re China overtaking the US. I base my comment on my experience , living and working in the US.
while It is no secret that the US has relinquished a lot of their productive capacity in consumer goods and outsourced many of the processes, they have conserved and indeed invested heavily in home grown industries and education-most especially in engineering (various branches).
They have also invested heavily in research and education. Their higher education system is miles ahead of anything else in the world. I know there will be much dispute about this but the scale is overwhelming.In the UK and Europe there are certainly areas of excellence but the American system is simply huge in comparison at every level; The university system is extremely efficient at cherry picking and nurturing talent and rewarding it.
china does indeed have massive human resources but so far they have not been able to remotely match the US in mass education. It appears that China has one university at the highest level. Compare that to the US with its centres of excellence in Boston, NewYork, Washington, LA, Chicago, Michigan, and LA.
I am not particularly a sympathiser of the US, but it has to be acknowledged that it is extremely attractive from the point of view of gaining material rewards and acts as a great incentive to immigration of the talented individuals. I guess that Americans are paid on average-twice or three times the equivalent in this country.These kinds of rewards are extremely attractive to immigrants.
I also have to say that despite reservations about the US and its leading role in the world, as a place to live it is extremely attractive to vast swathes of humanity.
It was reported that Edward Snowden was on $120,000 a year as a relatively junior contractor in the NSA. 80.000 quid? Not fantastic money, but seems good for that level of work.
I also suspect that the US has very carefully protected its human and education resources, despite appearances to the contrary, and has been very careful to identify areas of critical technical importance. Their domination of key technologies stifles competing development in other places.I cannot see the US not being aware of the issues related to maintaining their military superiority.
Furthermore you mention the ascent of Japan and S. korea, but both these places fall within western influence. Their markets are mainly in the west and these countries are highly influenced by Western thinking and interests.
I’ve heard talk that people believe that the Syrian chemical weapons attack was an inside job. People who believe that seem to also believe that 911 was an inside job – just the stupidest conspiracy.
“It was reported that Edward Snowden was on $120,000 a year as a relatively junior contractor in the NSA.”
All the more reason to doubt his ridiculous claims of having the names of every overseas US agent.
—
Both Russia and China realised in the 90s that they were never going to compete with the US on military spending so they gave up the numbers game, instead choosing to put all their R+D efforts into advanced defensive ‘game changers’, like the Yukhont for example, which has made the carrier battle fleet obsolote overnight.
I could site a large number of examples, but what I will say is that Putin is not bluffing when he warns the West about ‘serious consequences’ of miltary adventurism in the region.
Deep Green Puddock: If you’d posted that 5 years ago I would have agreed with you. I’m just back from the US. It has changed alot. For starters just getting in is a chore. The security started in frankfurt.. everything very thorough. Thought it was going to cavity, but they changed their minds. The paranoia is amazing. And then I arrive in my destination in Maryland to find out that someone had stolen things from my case. You have all of this security and if they can remove things ,then they can also place items into your luggage. It’s a joke.
All I witnessed was ignorance being supervised by the ignorant. Every 2nd person you meet is employed in defence or the communictaion industry… if not they are waiting tables. They know what they are doing but not why.Education ? Scholarships ? Is that education or just an easy way to get a diploma ? I am not saying the Americans are stupid, but as production has gone east, so has alot of know how. Look at their airports for gods sake. Attaturk is streets ahead.
The US is sinking, but I still love the people there. They are completely uninformed.
BBC News at 10 is showing LOTS of very graphic images of dead people – talk about conditioning public opinion. It’s like a form of torture “Let us kill them properly or we’ll do it slowly, and show you every night”.
I’m sure the politicians secretly blame the public for this lack of action. If public opinion against this war had not been so overwhelming Labour would have accepted it without a blink.
Craig,
“That the Assad regime was responsible for the chemical weapons attacks is perfectly possible but very, very far from certain. Particularly as those who claim to have the most certainty about it are precisely those who lied repeatedly about WMD. That the Assad regime should risk this action now it is winning the war seems peculiar, to say the least.”
*****************
Without doubt the most intelligent and truthful sentences i’ve read anywhere since this all began.
Thank you-and great to have you posting again.
Most of the Snowden naysayers have doubted the extent of his access, until the revelations come out. Much of the discussion shows the fookin massiveness of the data burden. Getting as many on the security clearance fasttrack is the goal because it is frankly, almost unmanageable for humans.
Too much is made of Snowden…hero or traitor? I don’t care. The light of day is essential,
http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/08/29/the-black-budget/
Hence the biggest miseducation campaign in the world. An educated public will be informed, and aware. Training and education ought not be confused, further levels of income, or “prestige” have little to do with “competency” and “proficiency” of the individual engineers, doctors, etc.
For high levels of dedication there is a need high for levels of wisdom and knowledge and not glitzy buildings, and massive marketing apparatus.
Thanks for first hand account.
“Their higher education system is miles ahead of anything else in the world.”
A personal anecdote from a few months ago. Pub in Covent Garden, two Americans at the bar order 5 pints of Guiness. One asks how much is a pint the answer is £4.35, they then start getting their money ready but can’t work out 5 x 4.35, slightly amused I ask one of them if he knows what 5 x 4 is, which he does so I say ‘remeber that’s £20’, then I say “whats 5 x 35”, I am not kidding they could not do it, ok they had had a couple of beers, but they definately were not drunk. After we had a little giggle one of them pulled out his id, it was for Harvard Univeristy. True story.
Ah “giving succour to Assad”, sez Dave. Where have we heard that before? For me, it’s more about not wanting to kill lots of people without proof, and even then, given the reactions from various other players e.g Iran firing on Israel, not exactly advisable.
I dunno about the black budget, Ben, but the Pentagon soaks up almost 25 per cent of the Federal spend now. The war machine is, as Ike feared, an out-of-control state within a state. Obama is powerless to rein that in. I think it’s beyond that now, unless the whole political class pulls together on this. And I wouldn’t bet on that happening any time soon.
I think Cheney, Perle et al succeeded, like Reagan before them, in shifting the whole spectrum to the right. Their legacy will be with us for years to come, just like Thatcher/Blair in this country. It’s a grim thought, but not intractable. Keep hope alive, I guess.
“A personal anecdote from a few months ago. Pub in Covent Garden, two Americans at the bar order 5 pints of Guiness. One asks how much is a pint the answer is £4.35, they then start getting their money ready but can’t work out 5 x 4.35, slightly amused I ask one of them if he knows what 5 x 4 is, which he does so I say ‘remeber that’s £20′, then I say “whats 5 x 35″, I am not kidding they could not do it, ok they had had a couple of beers, but they definately were not drunk. After we had a little giggle one of them pulled out his id, it was for Harvard Univeristy. True story.”
What’s your point?
Mike; It actually started in 1947 through the National Security Act. Listen, we can see the Pentagon Budget. We can’t see CIA/NSA. It’s time this blank check is written in disappearing ink.
Transparency is a wonderful thing.
Parliament votes against syrian intervention in principal. Within one minute newsnight has three bcc journalists talking amongst themselves declaring “this debate is not over”.
Oh I know Ben, the black budget hides lots of nasties, many of themthe wet dreams of the Darpa boys (and gals?). But it’s the scale of the US economy’s (official) retooling as a war economy that speaks for itself.
Anyway, a soupcon of sanity has crept into British politics, I see. At least the vote proves (for a while anyway) that Miliband is not Jesus Blair.
Oh, they haven’t given up, Phil. Mike Rogers (House Intel) was just on saying the same thing. Rogers is the same marionette who was talking about going in to get Snowden, like he was on Seal Team 6. These phuckers don’t change.
I can’t actually watch the BBC on Syria anymore – it’s bad for my blood pressure. Perhaps they should follow up the Telegraph (of all places!) article from Tuesday and tell us why the Saudis have threatened to attack the Sochi Olympic games.
I eat my fuckin socks of Mark Urban or Ian Pannell told us about that.
The Snowdon affair is likely just the effects of some little clique trying their utmost to get Obama out of office. Snowdown could have easily got the data from a third party, hence he get’s hooked up with a temporary position in a junior role just long enough to give him the ‘NSA whistle-blower’ tag.
I beleive The Benghazi Consular affair was another such incident, what was supposed to be a limited attack by some little country’s proxy jihadists, so the US rescue mission would give a boost to Obama’s re-election campaing, ended up in the deliberate murder of Ambassador Stevens. Obama got his revenge after he won the election by sacking Hilary Clinton, for it was her idea (i.e. she set the trap and Obama walked into it, presumably they offered her their support to be first female POTUS, which is all she and Bill ever think about).
Obama is walking along a tightrope, regardless of the right or wrongs of the US and him personally I think he has shown awsome political nouce in not only getting re-elected in spite of the tremendous efforts by the lobby but also keeping well clear of the trap being created for the US in Syria by their ‘eternal’ ally and the enemies he has within.
Interesting take on the man, Donald. It deserves some serious thought.
Heh; Obama went to Harvard Law and like myself is a product of the US educational failure, but I’m sure he needs help getting across the street. I know i do.
Cameron vote fails. 282 say NO to Syria.
“What’s your point?”
I know you’re American and I presume that is ironic (I certainly hope so). If not, first I apologise, second… oh, what’s the point? OK, here: “Their higher education system is miles ahead of anything else in the world.” as confirmed by my own experience with two members of the US of A’s finest business school – $50,000 pa – where they can not do elementary math[s].
The package on Newsnight from Syria with a lot of song and dance “distressing”, etc, … use of napalm, …… wait for it…… wait….
Then there is the clip a newly painted room (in a war zone remember) with a few characters strewed around the room and ham acting, without any lacerations or limbs torn off but a lot of ohhing and awwwing and ohhing some more, apparently in pain. (the chaps in Newsnight have not seen the naked girl image in Vietnam, with her skin hanging off).
Recollecting the Iraqi soldiers bayoneting the Kuwaiti infants out of their incubators to take the incubators back to Baghdad!
Recollecting the Iraqi woman who was raped by 150 Saddam men who turned out she is an actress and was invited to perform in the Labour conference.
This fucking armature performance for youtube is just one con too far!
Now there will be oh well; stuff this shit for a game of soldiers and all that crap!
Interesting isn’t it?
What is a fucking warmonger to do?
Just what will it take for the fucking great unwashed to be conned into another war?
Oh why o why o why?
“Cameron vote fails. 282 say NO to Syria.”
I can almost hear them putting together their next outrage, “We need to see more children… more screaming… more pain… more death…., that should convince the sceptics and naysayers”.
When asked what possible reason Assad would have for such illogical actions all Cameron can say is that he is ‘testing the resolve of the international community’. Utterly utterly utterly pathetic. I know who the psycopaths really are.
“Oh why o why o why? ”
Oy vay oy vay oy vay?
Newsnight = “Wag The Dog”