I have been trying for the last few days to discover a coherent logic towards my feelings on man’s relationship with his environment. This is proving not to be simple.
The process started when I heard on World Service radio a gentleman from the International Panel on Climate Change discussing their latest report. As you know, I tend to accept the established opinion on climate change, and rather take the view that if all our industrial activity were not affecting the atmosphere, that would be strange.
But what struck me was that the gentleman said that a pause in warming for the last fifteen years was not significant, as fifteen years was a blip in processes that last over millennia.
Well, that would certainly be very true if you are considering natural climate change. But we are not – we are considering man-made climate change. In terms of the period in which the scale of man’s industrial activity has been having a significant impact on the environment, surely fifteen years is a pretty important percentage of that period? Especially as you might naturally imagine the process to be cumulative – fifteen years at the start when nothing much happened would be more explicable.
Having tucked away that doubt, I started to try to think deeper. Man is, of course, himself a part of nature. Anything man does on this planet is natural to this planet. I do not take the view man should not change his environment – otherwise I should not be sitting in a house. The question is rather, are we inadvertently making changes to the environment to our own long term detriment?
That rejection of what you might call the Gaia principle – that the environmental status quo is an end in itself – has ramifications. It is hard to conceptualise our relationship with gases or soil, but easier in terms of animals. I am not a vegetarian – I am quite happy that we farm and eat cattle, for example – and you might argue that the cattle are pretty successful themselves, symbiotic survivors of a kind. Do I think other species have a value in themselves? Is there any harm in killing off a species of insect, other than the fact that biodiversity may be reduced in ways that remove potential future advantages to man, or there may be knock on consequences we know not of that damage man somehow? I am not quite sure, but in general I seem in practice to take the view that exploitation of other species and substantial distortion of prior ecological balance to suit men’s needs is fine, so presumably the odd extinction is fine too, unless it damages man long term.
I strongly disapprove of hurting animals for sport, and want to see them have the best quality of life possible, preferably wild. But I like to eat and wear them. I am not quite sure why it is OK to wear animal skin on our feet or carry it as a bag, but not to wear “fur”. What is the difference, other than that leather has had the hair systematically rubbed off as part of the process of making it? A trivial issue, but one that obviously relates to the deeper questions.
Yes I draw a distinction between animals which are intelligent and those which are not. I would not eat whale or dolphin. But this does not seem entirely logical – animal intelligence and sensibility is evidently a continuum. Many animals mourn, for example. The BBC World Service radio (my main contact with the outside world at present – I have just today found my very, very weak internet connection just about works if I try it at 5am) informed me a couple of days ago that orang-utans have the ability to think forward and tell others where they will be the next day. Why cattle and fish are daft enough to eat is hard to justify.
I quite appreciate the disbenefits to man of radically changing his environment, even if it could be done without long term risk to his existence – the loss of beauty, of connection to seasons and forms of behaviour with which we evolved. But I regard those as important only as losses to man, not because nature is important intrinsically. In short, if I thought higher seas, no polar bears and no glaciers would not hurt man particularly, I don’t suppose I would have much to say against it. I fear the potential repercussions are too dangerous to man. At base, I don’t actually care about a polar bear.
“Mike Hall September 30, 2013 at 11:59 pm #
Christ, you poor UK dwellers, cruelty & ignorance by economic policy is personified in Osborne’s speech today.
What a piece of warmed up Thatcherite Tory shit.
http://mikenormaneconomics.blogspot.ie/2013/09/george-osborne-promises-surplus.html
As if the Gulag treatment of the jobless wasn’t bad enough, the budget surplus plan will all but ensure that the ranks of long term unemployed will continue to swell. I expect many will simply give up & live rough on the streets.
A simple Sectoral Balance analysis (a la MMT) will show why. Government can only move into surplus by taking financial assets from the non-Government sector. It’s unlikely exports will change much, so guess who’s left? And being Tories, guess which group will be coughing up the most? Looks like the rich are set to get richer & poor poorer to a whole new level.
Are the Tories planning a whole new privatised industry of orchestrated mental & physical torture on the poor? I suppose if people turn to crime in desperation they’ll end up in the privatised prisons (like the US), so it’ll be a win-win either way.
And guess which twats, as if by some evil Pavlovian manipulation, parroted the same moronic drivel that the government’s goal must be ‘balance’ or ‘surplus’ ?
Channel 4 News’ Jon (economic ignorant dickhead) Snow interviewing Labour’s shadow Treasury spokesman Chris Imacluelesswankertoo.
Sorry for the colourful language, but this crap is just getting too surreal.”
http://www.golemxiv.co.uk/2013/09/whistelblowing-and-immunity-in-ireland/#comment-140150
“privatised prisons (like the US), so it’ll be a win-win either way.”
http://www.exposingthetruth.co/inefficiency-of-privatisation/#axzz2gNjpWUQD
Hi Mary
“Is James straight out of the Cabinet Office or Conservative Central Office, 30 Millbank? The latter is owned by the Reuben brothers, donors to the Tories to the tune of £200,000. (FT) Perhaps they give the space rent free too.”
The point you’re making here – in the context of a rather interesting discussion on the government’s ‘work fare’ intentions – is a tad too subtle for me to grasp, I’m afraid. Can you explain what your point is, and its relevance?
Or are you simply making the general point that every building has an owner?
I’ll try and find the time later in the day to reply to a number of more serious points (Resident Dissident, Fred, Komodo, etc) on the subject.
Beware! Halloween approaches and the dead are risen from their graves.
A recently departed is once again amongst us, demanding we feed its unsatiable hunger for answers.
DON’T FEED THE GHOUL
Yes thought so too A Node.
~~~
Someone ‘As if the Gulag treatment of the jobless wasn’t bad enough, the budget surplus plan will all but ensure that the ranks of long term unemployed will continue to swell. I expect many will simply give up & live rough on the streets.’
Or in communes like the Portugese. On the streets like some Hungarians and rising unemployment in Germany. How much longer can they keep the balls up in the air?
30 Sep 2013
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z7PGQgGHvE
‘It’s not life, it’s survival’: Crisis-hit Portuguese forced to live in communes
The decision to resort to austerity has returned to bite the coalition government of Portugal, who’ve suffered defeat in local elections. The country is likely to see a third consecutive year of recession. And tax hikes and job cuts are forcing people to find new ways to survive, as Sara Firth reports.
Hungarian law bans sleeping rough BBC website
The Hungarian parliament passes a law which aims to clear several thousand homeless people off the streets of Budapest and other towns.
Surprise rise in German unemployment BBC website
German unemployment rose unexpectedly in September
The number of people out of work in Germany unexpectedly rose by 25,000 in September to just under three million.
The foregoing makes the climate change debate almost irrelevant at the present time.
Woooooo….innit?
I demand an answer, ‘James’.
The foregoing makes the climate change debate almost irrelevant at the present time.
Ah, but don’t you see, Mary, that if the temperature rises, the homeless won’t need houses, and they’ll be able to grow mangoes to eat, even in Germany?
This consoling thought was brought to you by the Koch Brothers in association with the Tea Party. And now the news:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24039202
@ James,
An eco-prof explained once that a 0 unemployment rate is impossible to achieve [and out off balance the moment it was achieved], so the best we could hope for was a government smart enough to create jobs, that didn’t hover just above the poverty line. One day, when I was a young kid, I sat in a restaurant in with my parents in Prague. It was summer, but also spring [as I found out later], because I’d never heard of Alexander Dubček, but made up for it in later life. Every time another person appeared at our table to bring items we could use [a spoon, a fork, a knife a napkin, the menu, water, etc.]. That’s what the face of 0 employment looks like and, quite frankly, it looked ridiculous. I’ve also often wondered how to tackle that problem without turning into a Police State. Back in the US I know quite a few people who’ve lost every last thing they once owned. These are not lazy people or irresponsible people, these were hardworking, patriotic men, but alas, they still move from town to town looking for the odd job, their family dutifully in tow and the car nearly broke. I won’t bother you with all the stories I’ve heard, but the guy making up the news should open his eyes for once. Here in Japan, I read an hear remarkably little about job opportunities & market, but now that the ‘jobs for life’ are gone, one wonders what will be next? How is the situation in the UK?
Well done A Node – time for the ‘blood sacrifice’ eh?
“How to Live on Practically Nothing”
http://www.wikihow.com/Live-on-Practically-Nothing
More mendacity from the Republican Right:
http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/mean-spirited-asinine-7-prime-examples-right-wing-lunacy-week?paging=off¤t_page=1#bookmark
Yes, they’re that crazy. But our lot is catching up fast.
Kompodo LOL and there won’t be any heating bills either! I jest.
~~
Less fishing planned for the Palestinians off the Gaza coast.
http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2013/09/30/israel-to-deploy-advanced-warships-off-gaza-coast/
Good diagrams showing the progressive restrictions on fishing off Gaza thus depriving children of one of the best foods. The sewage outfall adds to the misery.
and
Gaza – Monday evening [September 30, 2013] Israeli soldiers shot and killed a Palestinian man, injured and kidnapped another, near the border fence, in the northern part of the Gaza Strip.
Israeli media sources said that the soldiers opened fire at two Palestinians who approached the border fence, and attempted to cut a hole in it before the army chased them.
/..
http://occupiedpalestine.wordpress.com/2013/10/01/7th-dead-in-235th-israeli-cease-fire-violation-army-kills-a-palestinian-injures-another-in-northern-gaza/
There are many more links on this website to further Israeli atrocities.
No irony and no connection with the previous links about life and death in Gaza.
The new Chief Rabbi has a whizzy new website with this symbol.
It’s a Tree of Life for those who grasp it.
http://www.chiefrabbi.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/banner.jpg?timestamp=1380632156451
Here he is at his installation with P. Charles in a kippah bringing up the rear.
http://www.chiefrabbi.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/�-Photo-by-Yakir-Zur-2087.jpg
“Well done A Node – time for the ‘blood sacrifice’ eh?”
What does this mean?
And, Mary, do the Reubens provide the building ‘rent free’? Perhaps they do. Perhaps they do not. I’m sure you can find out, if it’s important enough to mention.
Technicolour
Read James @ 1 Oct, 2013 – 11:12 am
It’s Habbabkuk. He’s here to wind people up again.
Simple & effective solution: If he annoys you, annoy him back by not responding.
“The man who hated Britain” by the paper that adored Adolph Hitler.
Meanwhile, the Israelis have pulled off the spy coup of the decade by arresting an Iranian who was taking (very low quality) pictures of:
1. The US Embassy. Or possibly a chair.
2. Some wheely bins, or possibly the US Embassy
3. The passenger concourse at Ben Gurion Airport.
4. Himself, with a street map, or maybe some lamp standards.
http://photoblog.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/09/30/20757307-israel-releases-pictures-allegedly-taken-by-detained-iranian-spy?lite
If Iran had got hold of that material, that would have been the end of Israel, eh?
Don’t know A Node whether it is Habbabkuk but anyone who has a lengthy conversation with Resident Dissident has got to be one of the ‘team’, ‘shower’ or whatever you want to call them.
Pretty certain it is, John. Same fixation with Mary, same syntax. Can’t resist the interrogative…etc.
AA; Question. In your opinion will Earth pass through the debris field?
http://solarsystem.nasa.gov/multimedia/video-view.cfm?Vid_ID=2962
Snuff Movie activity is Unnatural – The chem Video was staged to start the war planes raining death and destruction Sickening
This caught my attention –
426 Dead Syrian Children? US 1% Heartlessly Poverty-Kill 1 Million Children/Month in Gruesome Slow Agony
Best current evidence shows that 426 dead Syrian children were murdered by the criminal US 1% and minions as a false flag attack to cause war on Syria. False flags are an aggressor nation committing a horrendous act, blaming the targeted nation, and then lying to the public for war support.
Evil bastards
426 Dead Syrian Children? US 1% Heartlessly Poverty-Kill 1 Million Children/Month in Gruesome Slow Agony
WIll SHIELD agents save us from the White Widow?
Oh dear, I’m mixing up reality and fiction again…
http://www.globalresearch.ca/kenya-false-flag-washington-had-advanced-knowledge-intelligence-agents-in-westgate-mall-prior-to-attack/5352239
A Node, thanks, but that doesn’t answer my question to Mark.
“anyone who has a lengthy conversation with Resident Dissident has got to be one of the ‘team’, ‘shower’ or whatever you want to call them”
Resident Dissident is disagreeing with the commentator you are calling Habbakuk. And, moreover, disagreeing at length, sensibly and substantially.
World’s largest dirty bomb.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/10/01-4
FAO those interested in actualities, here is a link worth reading.
Walid Almoualem, Syrian Deputy Prime Minister speech
Just for warm-up.
Further the fiery and informative speech of Evo Morales that is surprisingly not available in the pdf format but can be listened to here
John Goss 1 Oct, 2013 – 4:27 pm
I’d put money on it. Amusingly, Res Dis didn’t recognise ‘James’ and criticised the sentiment behind his provocative opening comment. ‘James’ was forced to awkwardly defend his position without alienating Res Dis, who no doubt he hopes to re-enlist as an ally.
Res Dis, you’ve shown you have a social conscience after all. Don’t let the ghoul lure you back to the dark side.
technicolour 1 Oct, 2013 – 4:36 pm
I was comparing Habbabkuk’s re-appearance to the return of the living dead. Mark was responding in similar humourous vein.
Cyril Smith late LD MP Rochdale 1928-2010
30 September 2013
Continued cover-up and denial about Smith in Rochdale
More sanctimonious piffle pours out of Rochdale, and self-denials abound, following the excellent Dispatches programme: “Paedophile MP: How Cyril Smith got away with it”, a couple of weeks ago.
The town’s establishment and local newspaper, the Rochdale Observer, continue to avoid uncomfortable truths, or face their complicity in his prolonged sexual abuse of children.
/..
http://northernvoicesmag.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/continued-cover-up-and-denial-about.html
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/4od#3576904
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Smith Horrible details.
I too am keen to understand what this talk of “blood sacrifice” is all about. Oh, sorry it was supposed to be funnneee. What passes for humour here! 😉
James, you can just ignore the cuckoos in this nest — the prophetic Habbabkuk told them they were the Eminences of the blog and they started believing it!
Time for tea and cucumber sandwiches…
Medialens editors – New graphic on climate change and the corporate media
Earlier this year, designer Melanie Patrick produced a graphic illustrating a UK opinion poll revealing that 59% think that fewer than 10,000 Iraqis have died since the 2003 invasion.
Melanie has just completed this new graphic on climate change and the corporate media that is hindering the steps necessary to combat climate chaos.
http://www.medialens.org/images/stories/climate_change_graphic.jpg
Please share this as widely as possible.
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1380642864.html
Regarding Cyril Smith, whilst not condoning his behaviour, it seems to have been at the milder end of the spectrum. I can’t help wondering if he’s been posthumously thrown to the wolves as part of a strategy to defuse the paedophilia-in-high-places furore. A token MP to joing the hi-vis celebs. I suspect the strategy is something like this:
OK, too many of those kids we abused have grown up and started naming names. If we don’t put a lid on it, it will become clear that paedophilia was and still is a common tool to blackmail, assure loyalty, and reward the elite. Here’s what we’ll do:
First we focus the blame on showbusiness rather than politics or industry. Saville’s no use to us now he’s dead, he’ll do. Then we have a long drawn out ‘investigation’ in which we drip feed juicy celebrity names to the public. Some of them will be genuine abusers to satisfy the demand for justice. Some of them will be cases which are intended to collapse to create a ‘is this becoming a witch hunt’ mentality. We’ll add a few borderline showbiz groupie situations to muddy the waters.
Now, all we need is a way to warn off the few journalists that haven’t yet sold there souls and clamp down on the internet rumours. OK, got it. We’ll set up an elaborate sting to encourage the naming of a top VIP, then demonstrate that he’s been libelled/slandered, then sue enough journos, bloggers and twitterers to ensure that everybody gets the message. As a bonus, that’ll also defuse the entire Kincora Boy’s Home ticking bomb.
Right, that’s about it, let’s just throw in a politician to make the point that no stone has been left unturned. An outsider with no connection to our network …. in you go, Cyril.
Job done.