I have been trying for the last few days to discover a coherent logic towards my feelings on man’s relationship with his environment. This is proving not to be simple.
The process started when I heard on World Service radio a gentleman from the International Panel on Climate Change discussing their latest report. As you know, I tend to accept the established opinion on climate change, and rather take the view that if all our industrial activity were not affecting the atmosphere, that would be strange.
But what struck me was that the gentleman said that a pause in warming for the last fifteen years was not significant, as fifteen years was a blip in processes that last over millennia.
Well, that would certainly be very true if you are considering natural climate change. But we are not – we are considering man-made climate change. In terms of the period in which the scale of man’s industrial activity has been having a significant impact on the environment, surely fifteen years is a pretty important percentage of that period? Especially as you might naturally imagine the process to be cumulative – fifteen years at the start when nothing much happened would be more explicable.
Having tucked away that doubt, I started to try to think deeper. Man is, of course, himself a part of nature. Anything man does on this planet is natural to this planet. I do not take the view man should not change his environment – otherwise I should not be sitting in a house. The question is rather, are we inadvertently making changes to the environment to our own long term detriment?
That rejection of what you might call the Gaia principle – that the environmental status quo is an end in itself – has ramifications. It is hard to conceptualise our relationship with gases or soil, but easier in terms of animals. I am not a vegetarian – I am quite happy that we farm and eat cattle, for example – and you might argue that the cattle are pretty successful themselves, symbiotic survivors of a kind. Do I think other species have a value in themselves? Is there any harm in killing off a species of insect, other than the fact that biodiversity may be reduced in ways that remove potential future advantages to man, or there may be knock on consequences we know not of that damage man somehow? I am not quite sure, but in general I seem in practice to take the view that exploitation of other species and substantial distortion of prior ecological balance to suit men’s needs is fine, so presumably the odd extinction is fine too, unless it damages man long term.
I strongly disapprove of hurting animals for sport, and want to see them have the best quality of life possible, preferably wild. But I like to eat and wear them. I am not quite sure why it is OK to wear animal skin on our feet or carry it as a bag, but not to wear “fur”. What is the difference, other than that leather has had the hair systematically rubbed off as part of the process of making it? A trivial issue, but one that obviously relates to the deeper questions.
Yes I draw a distinction between animals which are intelligent and those which are not. I would not eat whale or dolphin. But this does not seem entirely logical – animal intelligence and sensibility is evidently a continuum. Many animals mourn, for example. The BBC World Service radio (my main contact with the outside world at present – I have just today found my very, very weak internet connection just about works if I try it at 5am) informed me a couple of days ago that orang-utans have the ability to think forward and tell others where they will be the next day. Why cattle and fish are daft enough to eat is hard to justify.
I quite appreciate the disbenefits to man of radically changing his environment, even if it could be done without long term risk to his existence – the loss of beauty, of connection to seasons and forms of behaviour with which we evolved. But I regard those as important only as losses to man, not because nature is important intrinsically. In short, if I thought higher seas, no polar bears and no glaciers would not hurt man particularly, I don’t suppose I would have much to say against it. I fear the potential repercussions are too dangerous to man. At base, I don’t actually care about a polar bear.
Just watching Obama finally make a passionate speech again. Sad it took a government shutdown to do it.
OK, Wannsee. What’s next?
The move follows decades of appeals by Jewish groups, who say the current plaques do not fully reflect the suffering of Jews there and focus too heavily on the camp’s non-Jewish victims.
Ya, that tempest Polish nun I interviewed was very anti-Israeli, anti-Jewish for having the guts to claim she was in the same bunk rooms as other women.
Too bad if you can’t read this.
How about:
“Only one copy of the Wansee Conference protocol, found in 1947, survived the war, others having been deliberately destroyed by the Nazis in an effort to conceal evidence. This protocol is the only authentic documentation as to what happened in Wannsee and one of the few that made explicit use of the term “final solution”. However, Haaretz concedes that, like any historical document, the Wannsee document should be read carefully. The words “death” or “murder” do not appear in the conference protocol. Instead, it refers to “natural diminution”, “appropriate treatment”, “other solution options” and “different forms of solutions.” In fact, the only explicit references in the document deal with deportation rather than extermination. Even the famous table attached to the protocol that counts the Jews in each occupied country, does not state that those Jews are destined to be destroyed.” – LINK
So, what’s the next movie gonna be about?
Those with a ‘fair warning‘ are advised to move extremely cautious when addressing any of the above [again a ‘fair warning’].
How come hardly anyone or any of you knows about this?
https://twitter.com/NASAVoyager2/status/384887422477430784
http://www.nasa.gov/
Did I mention “STUPID FUCKING CUNTS”?
@ AlcAnon]
Q: Americans are now “OFFICIALLY STUPID FUCKING CUNTS”
R: I thought a son couldn’t be blamed for his father’s ineptness and that collective punishment for the fault/s of a few was a big No-No.
I do take offense at what you say, but you move within legally acceptable boundaries, so, have your field day.
Piss on these men, if it makes you feel any better; ‘WWII Vets Knock Over Shutdown Barrier to Visit Memorial’.
Daniel,
I’m in a very, very, very bad mood and sadly sober.
I haven’t even started on what I really want to say.
So I will stick with
“STUPID FUCKING CUNTS”
Oh and if you can get these Vets to re-open critical NASA databases I’d appreciate it.
Daniel,
NASA employees have been told they risk being arrested and thrown in jail if they turn up for work unpaid, That was in writing.
“STUPID FUCKING CUNTS” is all I can think of.
Ben,
Re: debris field
Earth orbit intersection with Ison is a miss by about 2 million miles. So we don’t pass directly through the main debris field. Someone intentionally fiddled with “Stellarium” and modified the orbit data to make it look like we go through the centre and that gets repeated on youtube and various forums.
Oh and I suppose I don’t really mean you are s “STUPID FUCKING CUNT” just in case I’ve offended you…
As expected.
Don’t Buy Rouhani’s Charm Offensive, Israel’s Netanyahu Tells U.N.
October 01, 2013 1:36 PM
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/10/01/228163576/dont-buy-rouhanis-charm-offensive-israels-netanyahu-tells-u-n
Iranian response.
http://webtv.un.org/watch/iran-first-right-of-reply-general-debate-68th-session/2710523548001/
In other news today obvious trolls are…. obvious.
AA; SFC was understood as generic praise for our legislative branch, with a minor nod to NASA.
By the way Ben,
Ison could have readied the momentum capacitors, switched on the sub-light drive and made a fast turn towards Earth. NASA can’t tell us now. Ison imagery from Mars has now been cancelled and I am about to explode.
Have a try.
http://toys.usvsth3m.com/iain-duncan-smiths-realistic-unemployment-simulator/
Recent attempted Ison observations
Deep-Impact – Self destructed
BRRISON – Didn’t work.
Observations from Mars – Shut down. Data already received today appears to have been destroyed because it was “illegal”.
AA; Halley’s 1910 was 0.15 AU (over 22 million km) at it’s closest to earth and we passed through the tail.
Let me see…how did life originate on earth? Oh, yeah, star stuff drifting down to the surface, and the first life was bacterial/viral.
How will Mars affect ISON’s trajectory? They are rather unpredictable.
ISON is green indicating cynogen gas, such as was found in Halley’s tail (1910)
The American government has SHUT-DOWN – but not the Federal Reserve yet…
We may witness the demise of America if world intention triumphs.
And it should. The chemical attacks which took place in East Ghouta on August 21, 2013 could be the most horrific false flag operation in history and the United States of America and her black-mailer, Israel, are complicit, strategic in this massacre.
Recently available evidence indicates that a number of children were killed by Saudi/American/Israeli “opposition rebels”, their bodies manipulated and filmed with a view to blaming the Syrian government for the attacks, thus sparking outrage and galvanizing worldwide public opinion in favor of another bloody, imperial US-led war.
The intention is China will NOT sit back in revulsion and do nothing. China has the power to teach America a lesson.
Foreign investors including China have already dumped $100 billion in US treasury bonds and stocks.
Now is the time to sell, sell sell US and I call for a further, final dump of U.S. treasury bonds by China.
A U.S. default, would immediately result in a global chain reaction ending in the destruction of the dollar as the world reserve currency. This is mathematical fact.
This is atonement.
Ben,
Yes’ we’ll see a bit of the tail. However in May we pass directly through the debris stream from 209P/LINEAR. That looks more spectacular based on public info.
Mars interaction effects are already modelled by the NASA Horizons system. You can download Orsa software and check yourself if you want. Loads of amateur astronomers rely on it to find where to point their telescopes. If Ison moves away from its NASA projected position then thousands of amateur astronomers will notice very quickly.
Btw,
Today’s NASA/NOAA Solar report wasn’t published as normal. That’s the one that will tell us if a solar “kill-shot” is on the way. It finally appeared in a truncated form many hours late.
“The consequence of this should have been thousands of indictments, prosecutions and imprisonments — of banking executives, of members of Congress, of various executive branch officers in various agencies and more.”
http://www.market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=224712
“US shutdown targets workers and poor people”
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/10/01/shut-o01.html
Ben,
Interestingly an Arecibo asteroid hunter staff member has commented on twitter about the rumours going around the island about an imminent asteroid strike/tsunami. Said they are not aware of any immediate threat. Then another staff member suggested that someone had heard of 209P/LINEAR and maybe confused it with an upcoming hit. In any case, they have now been sent home.
Dunno Mark, I’m not sure we should be cheering for China. There is a motivation amongst the liberal/left – a grouping that I consider myself a part of – to believe America is somehow intrinsically bad. Thus, anyone who stands up to them (Russia recently, and as per your example China) is good. I think there’s a danger of over-simplification here; partly because the US does have its progressive parts, and partly because China as a world power has not suddenly become progressive.
Earlier we were assured by AlcAnon that Americans – all 300 million of them, I imagine – are “stupid fucking cunts”. In my view, that is rather emblematic of this way of thinking, and I think we need to be more detailed as to what the left is against.
For example, if China “teaches America a lesson” by “dumping $100 billion in US treasury bonds and stocks”, what will be the effect? Well, perhaps the US will go bust, and perhaps we’ll see the “destruction of the dollar as the world reserve currency” as you say. Now, I’m all for a more equitable arrangement of economic power throughout the world, and certainly US hegemony has been preserved as a result of that power. I’m not in favour of the US holding a world reserve currency.
But making the US go bust may have knock-on consequences that don’t just hurt the men in suits. I’m not a capitalist, as I’ve said here before, but whilst we live in a capitalist society, we need to be careful we do not wish a severe recession on ordinary working people. The current US government shutdown may cause some people who do not have savings to default on debts or, possibly, even to lose their houses. “Foreclosure” is a real problem for the poor working classes in the US especially (and if interest rates spiral out of control, that would get worse).
In any case, is it right that China even gets to wield such disproportionate power? I think it is not. It has been predicted that the sun will set on the present “American Empire” (and some day it surely must). Progressives at that point must be willing to criticise any new power if it emerges as an undemocratic bully (as seems likely).
Snowden and the Sakharov prize.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/10/01/203815/nsa-leaker-snowden-among-finalists.html
Strange Jon,
Ben didn’t seem to have a problem with my cry of pain. Tell you what. Next time Craig calls someone a cunt could you have a word with him and let him know he has a problem with his way of thinking?
Thanks.
Jon; China is Capitalistic, and that’s why they won’t dump those debt instruments. Their financial future, as most Nations, are tied to the US. BRICS is still in gestation, and until they go live, the Petrodollar is needed for the transition.
AlcAnon is angry with the c***s in Washington DC because NASA is dark due to the shutdown.
Imagine the coincidence. Picture the synchronicity; First DEEP IMPACT, then BRRISON fails, and the Mars Observer has no observers, all culminating on the propitious date of 10/1/13.
AlcAnon, I wasn’t objecting to the language, just the sweeping generalisation. But, as I’m sure I’ve mentioned in the past, I’m as angry about the damage wrought by neoliberalism as you appear to be.
Maybe I’m reading the NASA tweet wrongly, but I think it’s a rather splendid statement of exasperation with the mainstream political process. Rather brave from what is essentially a government account!
Ben,
As of now I’m not even sure that the European Space Agency’s Mars Express can return its images as the Deep Space Network dishes are shared with NASA. That data also may be over-written before it is retrieved.
Hopefully they can schedule a down-link bypassing normal channels – they have the ability to do so if the will is there.
“The last word in ignorance is the man who says of an animal or plant: ‘What good is it?”
― Aldo Leopold
Sorry, but I just have to ask; ‘what good is a mosquito?’