I have been trying for the last few days to discover a coherent logic towards my feelings on man’s relationship with his environment. This is proving not to be simple.
The process started when I heard on World Service radio a gentleman from the International Panel on Climate Change discussing their latest report. As you know, I tend to accept the established opinion on climate change, and rather take the view that if all our industrial activity were not affecting the atmosphere, that would be strange.
But what struck me was that the gentleman said that a pause in warming for the last fifteen years was not significant, as fifteen years was a blip in processes that last over millennia.
Well, that would certainly be very true if you are considering natural climate change. But we are not – we are considering man-made climate change. In terms of the period in which the scale of man’s industrial activity has been having a significant impact on the environment, surely fifteen years is a pretty important percentage of that period? Especially as you might naturally imagine the process to be cumulative – fifteen years at the start when nothing much happened would be more explicable.
Having tucked away that doubt, I started to try to think deeper. Man is, of course, himself a part of nature. Anything man does on this planet is natural to this planet. I do not take the view man should not change his environment – otherwise I should not be sitting in a house. The question is rather, are we inadvertently making changes to the environment to our own long term detriment?
That rejection of what you might call the Gaia principle – that the environmental status quo is an end in itself – has ramifications. It is hard to conceptualise our relationship with gases or soil, but easier in terms of animals. I am not a vegetarian – I am quite happy that we farm and eat cattle, for example – and you might argue that the cattle are pretty successful themselves, symbiotic survivors of a kind. Do I think other species have a value in themselves? Is there any harm in killing off a species of insect, other than the fact that biodiversity may be reduced in ways that remove potential future advantages to man, or there may be knock on consequences we know not of that damage man somehow? I am not quite sure, but in general I seem in practice to take the view that exploitation of other species and substantial distortion of prior ecological balance to suit men’s needs is fine, so presumably the odd extinction is fine too, unless it damages man long term.
I strongly disapprove of hurting animals for sport, and want to see them have the best quality of life possible, preferably wild. But I like to eat and wear them. I am not quite sure why it is OK to wear animal skin on our feet or carry it as a bag, but not to wear “fur”. What is the difference, other than that leather has had the hair systematically rubbed off as part of the process of making it? A trivial issue, but one that obviously relates to the deeper questions.
Yes I draw a distinction between animals which are intelligent and those which are not. I would not eat whale or dolphin. But this does not seem entirely logical – animal intelligence and sensibility is evidently a continuum. Many animals mourn, for example. The BBC World Service radio (my main contact with the outside world at present – I have just today found my very, very weak internet connection just about works if I try it at 5am) informed me a couple of days ago that orang-utans have the ability to think forward and tell others where they will be the next day. Why cattle and fish are daft enough to eat is hard to justify.
I quite appreciate the disbenefits to man of radically changing his environment, even if it could be done without long term risk to his existence – the loss of beauty, of connection to seasons and forms of behaviour with which we evolved. But I regard those as important only as losses to man, not because nature is important intrinsically. In short, if I thought higher seas, no polar bears and no glaciers would not hurt man particularly, I don’t suppose I would have much to say against it. I fear the potential repercussions are too dangerous to man. At base, I don’t actually care about a polar bear.
With stupid comments like that RedRobbokuk you are likely to get banned again. I meant exactly what I wrote and you know it. But thanks for the publicity. Perhaps some brighter brains might read the article due to your publicity and I thank you for that.
“I have not got a monopoly on the truth but the media you are applauding is the media that will not allow the names of the women who set up Julian Assange, Sofia Wilen and Anna Ardin, to appear in any outlet.”
Clark,
It should have been very visible early this morning with clear skies. Widely seen across the US last night.
“I have not got a monopoly on the truth but the media you are applauding is the media that will not allow the names of the women who set up Julian Assange, Sofia Wilen and Anna Ardin, to appear in any outlet.”
Do they print the names of other alleged victims of sexual crimes or are they making an exception?
Tell me where to find you, Fred, and I’ll come and try to cheer you up.
Or if there’s anyone in Scotland who can cheer me up…
AlcAnon, thanks. I’ll keep a look-out…
“Tell me where to find you, Fred, and I’ll come and try to cheer you up.”
If you need a place to doss I can put you in touch with someone has a futon whatever one of them is.
You can email me at “fred {at} fredc.me.uk”
[Mod/Jon: obfuscated email to avoid spam harvesting]
Fred: “If someone tells you they don’t see the reflection of the moon on the water where you see it they aren’t telling lies, they’re just standing in a different place. Everyone has the right to stand where they choose.”
I like this analogy a lot – and agree, as a first principle. But then there is also the possibility that someone has erected a large billboard between them and the water, or even that they are deliberately keeping their eyes shut?
ps hey Clark!
Poison Gove enters the Mail/Miliband row. Whose side is he on? Why the Mail’s of course. His wife Sarah Vine, late of the Times, now ‘writes’ for the Mail.
Gove defends newspapers’ ‘right to offend’ in Miliband row
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24363765
Gove of course is such a champion of free speech that he had to be ‘persuaded to calm down’ after the Syria debate. He was raving at those who dared to dissent from the partei line as outlined by its leader, Agent Cameron the warmonger.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/syria-michael-gove-shouts-youre-2237533
~~~~~
A recent sample of Mrs Gove’s froth.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2432805/Sarah-Vine-Beauty-Sleuth-I-froze-away-mummy-tummy.html
~~~~~
Good to see you back Clark. Hope you have your safety helmet on! A few low flying objects appearing again on this blog under new names.
Clark,
You can keep an eye of the magnetometers at http://solarham.net/magnetogram.htm
It seems clear that Kp index 8 was reached but without an official space weather warning (NOAA/NASA only issued a level 6 reached alert). That’s the most severe magnetic storm we have had in a decade although it was only at the severe level briefly. The CME was associated with a spectacular filament eruption.
Fred, thanks, but never publish your e-mail address unless you like drowning in spam! Yes, I publish mine on my web space, but if you check you’ll find it’s an image rather than text, and spam harvesting software can’t actually read.
Jon, do the decent thing and sanitise Fred’s comment.
Hello Technicolour, hello Mary. Good to see you both.
“Fred, thanks, but never publish your e-mail address unless you like drowning in spam! Yes, I publish mine on my web space, but if you check you’ll find it’s an image rather than text, and spam harvesting software can’t actually read.”
Don’t worry I know what I’m doing and I know how to handle spam. I’ve now got several billion in Nigerian bank accounts and my penis is 3ft long to prove it.
The day after Netanyahu rejected outright peace overtures from Rouhani at the UN (calling Rouhani ‘a wolf in sheep’s clothing’), he holds a chemical weapons attack drill. See the video on the Sky home page. Lots of coloured smoke etc. He is pathetic. http://news.sky.com/
Israel PM calls Iran leader ‘wolf in sheep’s clothing’
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-24354160
Also a YCNMIU. ZBC Pannell and Wood get an ‘Emmy’ for their coverage of Syria! ie embedded with the rabble rebels.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24362435
Q. Should we call Bibi ‘a wolf in wolf’s clothing’?
“But thanks for the publicity. Perhaps some brighter brains might read the article”
My pleasure, John. As I said, it’s a pleasure to demonstrate that you are as dismissive and intolerant of dissenting views on other blogs as you are on this one.
BTW, I forgot to mention that I – ie, Red Robbo – was not only a self-confessed Communist and member of the CPGB but also a CPGB candidate in three UK general elections (got 1% of the vote in one of them!). And I stand by every word, John Dross.
Hello Clark,
Was in Ardnamurchan last week, and Ft William on Monday.
Glad to see you’re alive n kickin.
You don’t have to travel north to see the Aurora, but its well worth the visit anyway.
Sandwood bay is a must.
No polar bears tho’
DoNNyDarKo, thanks for the recommendation.
If anyone would like to meet up, we could arrange it here. And if anyone wishes to join me on my crazed meanderings, there’s room in the car, leather seats, loud, weird music… Click on my name to get my e-mail address.
I’m off out for a pint. See you all later.
Hi Clark, how is tricks guy? How the projects panned out?
Clark, but the human beings are being farmed! Just look at any council estate, the hopelessly disadvantaged and poor are being raised to do the dirty jobs all around. Who joins the armed forces? Who does the fighting, killing, setting alight, and getting blown to bits?
The human beings are farmed too, Clark. The only difference is we cannot see the fucking the wood for the trees mate.
====
Red Robbo, what is the difficulty you are having with John Goss? Can you expand a bit more? John Goss has tried to superimpose the savageries of the past, that have come to be the gold standard in evil, to the current situation in which the Muslims are caught up. Do you disagree and if so why? It would serve the argument well if you don’t get too technical and get lost in the minutia, though. This is not about technicalities, but about evolution of the standard of Evil to encompass the current attitudes of the only superpower on the block.
“I have not got a monopoly on the truth but the media you are applauding is the media that will not allow the names of the women who set up Julian Assange to appear in any outlet.”
That might be because it’s an offence under the 1992 Sexual Offences Act to publish the names of the alleged victims of rape. The act makes no distinction between foreign and British cases; nor should it.
Fedup
“Red Robbo, what is the difficulty you are having with John Goss?”
~~~~~~
In a nutshell, his deplorably Stalinist and intolerant attitude to views that do not accord with his own and his readiness to impugn the motivations of those who dare to contradict or otherwise disagree with his views (as amply evidenced by the above exchange of views with Fred and others).
But it doesn’t matter,this is only a blog. His hero – ie, myself, Red Robbo – only got 1% of the vote when standing as a candidate for the CPGB in a general election, ie, in the real world, 40 years or so ago. ‘Nuff said.
Fedup. Agree with what you say there. Imagine a political party referring to a group of citizens, in this case those out of work, not in education or training and under 25, by an acronym, NEETS.
That expression has just been taken up by the one of the pols’ mouthpieces, Nick Robinson, saying that nothing will happen for now, referring to the promised withdrawal of benefit, but that the Cons have them, the NEETS, ‘in their sights’. How kind. What humanity.
Why is this so important to you; to affirm the current fucked up fascist state, whit celebrating the 1 percent of the vote won (ie 99 percent defeat)? Further as you would know a haul mark of any democracy is the measure of how it treats the minorities within the said fucking democracy.
Other than the caricature of Stalin, what else do you think Stalin did? Would you discount the fact that if it were not for Stalin’s efforts, Germany could not have been so easily defeated?
On the other hand there is always the best way forward, prevaricate, obfuscate, and denounce people for having an opinion?
“Imagine a political party referring to a group of citizens, in this case those out of work, not in education or training and under 25, by an acronym, NEETS.”
Presumably, therefore, you would also object to politicians using the acronyms NIMBYs or DINKYs (to take just two examples)?
“Cons have them, the NEETS, ‘in their sights’. How kind. What humanity.”
If, by “having them on their sights”, you mean that more attention should be paid to education (eg, in basic work skills) and training and the idea that today’s unemployed school leavers might well turn into tomorrow’s long-term unemployed, then I agree that the Cons’ approach is indeed far-sighted and even humane.
“Further as you would know a haul mark of any democracy is the measure of how it treats the minorities within the said fucking democracy.”
Yes indeed, Fedup. Which is why the 1% who voted for me – and me as well- were free to lead a normal life after that election. Unlike, I would suggest, what would have happened to me if I had stood as a Restore Capitalism candidate in any of the “peoples’ democracies” in Eastern Europe after WW2.
And please stop peppering your comments with “fucking”.
Mar, fact that we spend huge amounts of money in this country to miseducate the NEETS only then to find that their scant skill sets, to be yet more reason for these to be further disenfranchised through the dog and pony show of the “small government”.
The notion of small government is in fact a sales pitch for the none delivery of the services for the majority poor and destitute. As well as the displacement of the taxation burden on the shoulders of the same discounted majority.
When Marie Antoinette genuinely enquired; “can they not eat cake, instead?” it only showed her degrees of disconnect from actualities. The disconnect of the plutocrats charge hands ie our “elected government” whom fully aware and knowing that there aren’t enough jobs, yet they are busy pushing the line of; lazy lay about, who sleep in the mornings cocking a snook at those who are going to work by keeping their curtains shut!
The degrees of misrepresentation and lies fed to the corporate media that in turn pumps out the bilge and super strength bullshit. To convince the masses they are being avenged, and the lay about are being punished.
The truth however means; Wages should be slashed, instead of redundancies and laying off workers. The stable of the hopeless and penniless jobless is to bring pressure on the current working poor to rely on the food banks and not to entertain any ideas above their station.
==
Come again?
Evidently the notion of being in liberty to cross a fucking (stop fucking suppressing my freedom of expression) box on a piece of toilet paper is a huge bonus, that we the people should be grateful for? Wkae the fuck up, the Iron Curtain fell in the fucking last century, stop pushing the redundant shit to get more mileage out of the “freedom” brand!
Further, clearly you are not a “communist”, and are only here for pushing the moniker to interlope among the “socialists” and push the fucking fascist agenda. What is it, the corporate media is not cutting the mustard, so we the people need be “educated” ie to learn to be fucked over in our own time too without a reach around?
Kempe, since when did consensual sex amount to rape?
[Mod/Jon: abusive towards Fedup, removed]
Laugh of the day:
“Don’t worry I know what I’m doing and I know how to handle spam. I’ve now got several billion in Nigerian bank accounts and my penis is 3ft long to prove it.”
Btw, not fair Fred. Can you share some of your booty(s) with Fedup? 🙂
Riposte of the day:
“Fred
2 Oct, 2013 – 6:33 pm
“Fred you live in a make-believe world. People are indoctrinated…”
Just as you have been.”
[Mod/Jon: abusive towards Villager, removed]
“Kempe, since when did consensual sex amount to rape?”
Please stop being anal. We know they are allegations though even Assange would acknowledge with hindsight, he should’ve taken precautions. Those fucks were simply not worth it — poor judgment. You live and learn.
Villager seems to me you agree that he was set up. We live and learn. But that being so why should the tag ‘rape’ be applied to Julian Assange? He did not rape anyone, though a previous comment states that his ‘victims’ are being protected because they were raped. Are you the same Villager that writes on the ‘Anna Ardin’ liar blog?