I have been trying for the last few days to discover a coherent logic towards my feelings on man’s relationship with his environment. This is proving not to be simple.
The process started when I heard on World Service radio a gentleman from the International Panel on Climate Change discussing their latest report. As you know, I tend to accept the established opinion on climate change, and rather take the view that if all our industrial activity were not affecting the atmosphere, that would be strange.
But what struck me was that the gentleman said that a pause in warming for the last fifteen years was not significant, as fifteen years was a blip in processes that last over millennia.
Well, that would certainly be very true if you are considering natural climate change. But we are not – we are considering man-made climate change. In terms of the period in which the scale of man’s industrial activity has been having a significant impact on the environment, surely fifteen years is a pretty important percentage of that period? Especially as you might naturally imagine the process to be cumulative – fifteen years at the start when nothing much happened would be more explicable.
Having tucked away that doubt, I started to try to think deeper. Man is, of course, himself a part of nature. Anything man does on this planet is natural to this planet. I do not take the view man should not change his environment – otherwise I should not be sitting in a house. The question is rather, are we inadvertently making changes to the environment to our own long term detriment?
That rejection of what you might call the Gaia principle – that the environmental status quo is an end in itself – has ramifications. It is hard to conceptualise our relationship with gases or soil, but easier in terms of animals. I am not a vegetarian – I am quite happy that we farm and eat cattle, for example – and you might argue that the cattle are pretty successful themselves, symbiotic survivors of a kind. Do I think other species have a value in themselves? Is there any harm in killing off a species of insect, other than the fact that biodiversity may be reduced in ways that remove potential future advantages to man, or there may be knock on consequences we know not of that damage man somehow? I am not quite sure, but in general I seem in practice to take the view that exploitation of other species and substantial distortion of prior ecological balance to suit men’s needs is fine, so presumably the odd extinction is fine too, unless it damages man long term.
I strongly disapprove of hurting animals for sport, and want to see them have the best quality of life possible, preferably wild. But I like to eat and wear them. I am not quite sure why it is OK to wear animal skin on our feet or carry it as a bag, but not to wear “fur”. What is the difference, other than that leather has had the hair systematically rubbed off as part of the process of making it? A trivial issue, but one that obviously relates to the deeper questions.
Yes I draw a distinction between animals which are intelligent and those which are not. I would not eat whale or dolphin. But this does not seem entirely logical – animal intelligence and sensibility is evidently a continuum. Many animals mourn, for example. The BBC World Service radio (my main contact with the outside world at present – I have just today found my very, very weak internet connection just about works if I try it at 5am) informed me a couple of days ago that orang-utans have the ability to think forward and tell others where they will be the next day. Why cattle and fish are daft enough to eat is hard to justify.
I quite appreciate the disbenefits to man of radically changing his environment, even if it could be done without long term risk to his existence – the loss of beauty, of connection to seasons and forms of behaviour with which we evolved. But I regard those as important only as losses to man, not because nature is important intrinsically. In short, if I thought higher seas, no polar bears and no glaciers would not hurt man particularly, I don’t suppose I would have much to say against it. I fear the potential repercussions are too dangerous to man. At base, I don’t actually care about a polar bear.
My favourite Washington poodle pops up again:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10354017/Tony-Blair-signed-up-to-help-Albania-to-join-EU.html
Carefully note:
A spokesman for Mr Blair said: “Mr Blair and his team will provide advice at no cost to the Albanian government
Wot? No money?
Er…no.
Fuga said the Albanian government would not be paying for a team of Blair’s assistants, who will be stationed in Tirana, and funding for them will be sought from international institutions.
(AP), emphasis mine.
Good to know he won’t be out of pocket.
Worth repeating:
“Even the comment asking to show where you are pro-Zionist is pro-Zionist.”
— John ‘Bonehead’ Dross
[This jewel of the day at the record time of 07h57!]
Not worth repeating:
Dross, go and have a shower, its sticking on you.
Village Idiot, exhibiting its debating skills.
If you’re going to flame, my babu friend, at least do it amusingly.
We are told that there is a meeting of the Privy Council next week to discuss the next moves on press freedom following the Leveson inquiry.
Are all 600 attending? 🙂
The Sovereign may appoint anyone a Privy Counsellor, but in practice appointments are made only on the advice of the Government, and generally consist only of senior members of parliament, the church and judiciary. There is no limit to the numbers sworn in as members. As of January 2012 there are about 600 members. Wikipedia.
Villager, when I asked for evidence that the Kenyan mall attack was a Zionist false-flag op, I was told there was no need for evidence and that I was behaving like a police officer. Facts are not needed, things just are . So, merely by challenging the asserion, I became a Zionist, or at the very best a Zionist apologist/shill. I increasingly think we are dealing with a belief system here.
FT Headline:
“Driver dies following car chase near White House”
Translation:
“Unarmed mother executed by police in front of her child”
But the problem is Fred it has probably taken 30 years for the Guardian to cover this when the protest should have been ongoing until their release was secured. I actually, unlike Craig, think that Alan Rusbridger tries to present a balanced view as much as he is allowed. Not many newspapers would let Glenn Greenwald write for them. But look how Greenwald, and his partner, are being vilified for revealing that the NSA is spying on us all, which many of us knew anyway. Some journalists, you can almost name them, Robert Fisk in the Independent, Miles Goslett in the Daily Mail, Peter Oborne in the Telegraph and a few others are honest reporters doing the job they should be doing. They just make the papers appear balanced. In fact they are heavily biased in presenting a one-sided view overall.
No, John, what you want of the media is blanket conformity with your views, as you have already stated.
On the topical subject of zionism, who gassed the 426 alawite children recently at Ghouta to start war in Syria. Cui Bono. We had the sunni Chemical Bandar firmly in the fray. But we also had our resident Lithuanian Rifkind thundering for war on the floor of the Commons based on YouTube videos of these gassed alawite children. We had the “lying” crypto Kerry asking for Congressional support over the 1,426 deaths. And finally we had Israels satanyahu fire a missile at Damascus to start the war as the false flag wavered. So was it the zionists or the syrian alawites as fingered by the 8200 mavi marmara type “auschwitz” audio “intercepts”?
I’m taking bets on the next ban
Fred (not-right said) 2-1
Villager (ommmmmmmmmmmm) 1-1
The vulgar language and the insults do not fit very well with the preachy faux religious stuff and various advices to meditate etc. A contradiction.
Captain Komode, what’s happened, is your flush not working?
“Unarmed mother executed by police in front of her child”
Exactly.
The Independent refers to an “exchange of shots” for some obscure reason in this piece here
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/capitol-hill-lockdown-female-driver-who-refused-to-stop-close-to-white-house-shot-and-killed-by-police-8857285.html
but there is no further reference to such an exchange in their piece.
I was following the event on Sky and Twitter yesterday, and have read numerous accounts of it, on both American and UK sites. Nowhere do they say that the woman was armed, or that she attempted to fire on the police.
And at one stage on Sky News, they made a reference to a “woman who was thought to have mental problems”.
Anon, spot-on seriously ingrained one’s at that. Its so obvious!
What is a “Zionist”? The term used to have a very specific meaning but now it’s accepted to mean any right-wing group of fascists with their hands on the levers – G.W. Bush & Tony Blair are not Zionists in the original sense of the word, but they are fascists.
I prefer to use the more correct term for people such as these, which is “Nazis”.
“Zionists” are an intolerant politco-religious group much like the people who run Iran, Saudi Arabia and other totalitarian theocracies. The fact is that they are also Nazis – be definition and by action.
From Keep Our National Health Service Public
2013/95 (Item 8) Possible boycott of Virgin
The Leeds local group has suggested a boycott of Virgin.
AGREED This will be discussed fully at the next meeting. To be added to the agenda.
~~~~~~~ has been asked to sit on the People’s Inquiry into the NHS with Frank Wood, Polly Toynbee, Roy Lilley etc. Apparently Virgin keep going back to the Department of Health asking for more money because they are not making enough on their NHS contracts and would rather not have them, so an extra push against Virgin may be well timed.
~~~~~~~~ urged involving UK Uncut in a boycott of Virgin.
The 5th November will be a national day of action organised through the People’s Assembly. ~~~~~~~ and the Lambeth group would like to do a KONP/UK Uncut action in front of the Virgin shop in Brixton as part of the national day of action
(Members’ names redacted for privacy)
~~
Is there a crack developing in the NHS privatisation plan?
Mary, what about Fedup’s “vulgar language and insults”?
Doesn’t bother you?
And you think it’s fine if Fred is labelled a Zionist, or if myself or Technicolour are labelled “ziofuckwits”?
Do you?
Fred (5:32am):
Fred, haven’t you understood the mindset of the Stalinists and extreme lefties yet? If they can’t control you (ban you, drown you out, etc…) they’ll resort to slander and lies.
I wonder what Orwell would have said to this one:
“You might not think you are pro-Zionist but you are.” (John Goss at 7:57 this morning)? BIG BROTHER knows best, his piercing gaze penetrates into the deepest recesses of your soul!
~~~~~~~~~~
Nice one from Komodo sahib as well (9:15am):
“If you’re going to flame, my babu friend, at least do it amusingly.”
My “babu friend” ???
“Why cattle and fish are daft enough to eat is hard to justify.”
In a study it was shown that crabs are averse to pain and remember what causes pain – amazing! Yet we still boil them alive. Squid, which are members of the Cephalopod family, are also highly intelligent and social. They possess some of the most advanced vision in nature, which requires huge brain processing.
We are mostly ignorant and arrogant about the creatures we share our brief existence with. The mammalian brain has only been evolving for a fraction of the time some of these creatures have been around.
Dreoilin. I was talking about the hypocrisy of a certain commenter in saying one thing and doing another.
Yes I despise all playground name calling and ad hominems. I note that the trolls are changing John’s name to Gross. It is as pathetic as it is infantile.
Mary (10:17am)
So it’s just the ‘hypocrisy’ you object to, and insults and name-calling if unaccompanied by ‘hypocrisy’ are fine by you?
That sounds a bit troll-like, in my opinion.
John Lanchester in today’s Guardian offers an excellent analysis of the threat to freedom posed by the military-surveillance superstate. If only he hadn’t spent the first 200 words apologising for it by talking up the AQ threat.
Unless the mainstream media accept that most of the threat posed by AQ is influenced, if not manufactured, by Western/Saudi intelligence agencies (al Nusra is a perfect example of that) then they will be fighting against Big Brother with one arm tied behind their backs. There’s no point pleading with a disease not to spread — you gotta tackle the root cause to stop it. You have to cauterise the infection by exposing it to the light.
The War on Terror is based on lies. Al Qaida is a list of intelligence assets.
Once these basic truths are accepted, the reason for all this surveillance collapses — just as quickly as Building 7 !
Mary,
I asked you in particular if Fedup’s vulgarity bothered you.
You haven’t answered me.
And I’d like to know what you mean by “the trolls”?
What is a “troll” according to you?
“I note that the trolls are changing John’s name to Gross. It is as pathetic as it is infantile.”
Haven’t you changed Obama’s name and Jeremy Hunt’s name here? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I seem to recall you referring to Obomber and Jeremy *unt?
What kind of a blog is this place turning into?
The ziofuckwits have indeed managed to derail and discount this blog into a fishwives corner.
the investigations into those Soca list begin
“The ziofuckwits have indeed managed to derail and discount this blog into a fishwives corner.”
————-
fish·wife (fshwf)
n. pl. fish·wives (-wvz)
1. A woman who sells fish.
2. A woman regarded as coarse and shrewishly abusive.
————–
And this is coming out of the mouth of Passerby aka Fedup!! LOL!
Red Robbobkuk, I detest being called a Stalinist and ask you to withdraw. It is not the first time either. Stalin was, like most world leaders, quite evil and funded by Zionist money. The gulags were disgusting places where decent people, poets and intellectuals, were worked to death, and you have absolutely no reason for any assumption that I would support a monster like that. Other people who know me and have read my comments before you even arrived on the blog have told you before that I am anything but a Stalinist. Withdraw.
“What is a “Zionist”?”
A Jewish Nationalist.
Dreoilin sputtered:
I have no intentions of engaging you, here is nothing of any value in any engagement. Thus, based on the dog poo on the side walk principle, I side step.
====
The unfolding tragedy that seems to get no traction;
Fred 4 Oct, 2013 – 5:45 am
That kinda proves my point.
Back then, the Guardian did a long article about the privacy implications of ANPR data from a voluntary theft-prevention scheme being fed to a police database that was supposedly deleting it after 24 hours.
9 years later, the scheme is to be made compulsory, it’s stated purpose is for national law enforcement rather than local theft prevention, and even worse, it is a de facto position-logging system of every vehicle in the country, yet the Guardian hasn’t mentioned it.
Loss of privacy and increasing surveilance methods have become so routine it isn’t newsworthy any more.
Komodo: “Macky, thanks. I had thought about Galloway, but I tried a couple of MSM rags* first. Neither followed up, so that’s still an option. (I’m not too keen on Galloway, personally, and I’d rather it wasn’t, but needs must where the Blair flies)”
At least you know with Galloway that here will be no holding back at all I getting at Blair !!
Ex-Pat: “I’m taking bets on the next ban”
Fred (not-right said) 2-1
Villager (ommmmmmmmmmmm) 1-1″
A close call; At one time or another, almost all the regulars here have been on the receiving end of Fred’s foul abuse, which indicates where exactly the problem lies; Fred declared red-line of not getting personal is both unrealistic as it is absurd, because people opinions are personal by definition, so if somebody is putting forward foolish arguments, they should not be surprised if they get called foolish, it’s just normal human reaction, especially in arguing & debating. Fred’s second problem is his hysterical over-reactions, his so-called “flaming”, which is my own case consisted of being sworn at consistently over several weeks, & over two or three threads, and all because I had referred to him as “a bit irrational” !! This is not normal RATIONAL behavior Fred !
Villager contributes nothing of value here; mostly trouble stirring here, often with insulting & venomous language; even on the rare occasion he tries to appear as engaging, it is frankly embarrassing, as he offers nothing but the most inane commentary, normally repeating what’s already be stated, behavior you would expect from a juvenile wanting to be taken seriously. All of which makes it ludicrously surreal when he get all preachy, and tries to push K on all of us.
Villager would not be a loss, but Fred would be, but only if he manages to curb his hang-up so that every debate doesn’t end in the same swearing sewage.
Dreoilin: “Haven’t you changed Obama’s name and Jeremy Hunt’s name here? Correct me if I’m wrong, but I seem to recall you referring to Obomber and Jeremy *unt?”
Are you really saying that you can’t see the difference between a Public figure & somebody who posts here !?