Alistair Darling has warned Scots that they will lose diplomatic influence if they leave the United Kingdom. He gives Syria as an example. Syria having been such a resounding diplomatic success for the UK, and the UK having contributed hugely to the successful resolution of the conflict – or presumably his reasoning is something like that.
An Independent Scotland would almost certainly not have invaded Iraq and would be most unlikely to have occupied Afghanistan for ten years. It would thus not have squandered vast sums of money, not contributed to the continued political disaster of both countries. An independent Scotland would not be a permanent member of the Security Council. This would impact terribly on the population, who would be benighted like the peoples of Denmark, Sweden, Germany and Australia, in all of which the lives of ordinary people are absolutely intolerable because of their non membership of the Security Council, and all of which have been repeatedly invaded and wiped out in nuclear attacks continually throughout the last six decades.
I worked in multilateral negotiations in both the UN and EU and found colleagues from countries like Ireland, the Netherlands and Canada to be professional competent and influential. The Scots certainly can be all of those. Small countries contribute to policy, to peacekeeping and to humanitarian effort. This latest bit of unionist nonsense is contemptible.
@Juteman
I think anyone with any sense at all knows that independence would not be all gains. There would be winners and losers, swings and roundabouts, gains and losses, advantages and disadvantages. It’s a matter of weighing the balances not fanatically screaming “scaremongering” at any possibility of negative consequences.
I’ve noticed the moderation policy regarding those posting purely to make personal attacks on other posters on this forum does not extend to Nationalists shouting down and intimidating those who think the people of Scotland deserve to be informed.
I agree with you Fred, independence won’t be all gains, though any mistakes will be our own.
Calling me a knuckledragger didn’t bother me, but you’re correct though, British Nationalists like yourself seem to be able to post anti-Scottish insults with impunity.
“Promises, Promises … Detroit, Pensions, Bondholders And Super-Priority Derivatives”
http://theautomaticearth.com/Finance/promises-promises-detroit-pensions-bondholders-and-super-priority-derivatives.html
“British Nationalists like yourself { ie, Fred }seem to be able to post anti-Scottish insults with impunity.”
________________
Fred was talking about anti-independence posters being shouted down with insults on this blog, you dimwit.
And i don’t understand this ‘information’ thing, Fred.
Does a German need any information on why he should let France run his country, or not?
The referendum question is simple. Should Scotland be an independent country? Yes or no.
“I agree with you Fred, independence won’t be all gains, though any mistakes will be our own.
Calling me a knuckledragger didn’t bother me, but you’re correct though, British Nationalists like yourself seem to be able to post anti-Scottish insults with impunity.”
First of all I am not a British Nationalist, never have been, never will be and your repeated calling me one I count as a personal attack and intimidation. Please understand that not being a rabid fanatical Scottish Nationalist is not the same thing as being a British Nationalist or a Unionist.
Secondly, I haven’t called you a knuckledragger, I made reference to Nationalist knuckledraggers, if you thought the description matched yourself that isn’t my problem.
Thirdly, remarks about Scotland or any other country are not personal remarks about another poster, it is not a personal attack any more than criticism of America or Israel or any other country. It makes me wonder what sort of place an independent Scotland would be if criticism of the country or it’s government would not be tolerated.
“And i don’t understand this ‘information’ thing, Fred.
Does a German need any information on why he should let France run his country, or not?
The referendum question is simple. Should Scotland be an independent country? Yes or no.”
I live in Scotland, we vote for MPs to go to Westminster and run Britain and we vote for MPs to go to Hollirood and run Scotland.
Ex Pat @ 7;16, and 8;47
Thank you… Exelents posts, Great links
here’s a great piece from information clearing house
Impeachment: Congress Fires Opening Shot Across Obama’s Bow.
“Mr. President, in the case of military operations in Libya you stated that authorization from Congress was not required because our military was not engaged in “hostilities.” In addition, an April 1, 2011, memorandum to you from your Office of Legal Counsel concluded:…”President Obama could rely on his constitutional power to safeguard the national interest by directing the anticipated military operations in Libya—which were limited in their nature, scope, and duration—without prior congressional authorization.’”
“We view the precedent this opinion sets, where “national interest” is enough to engage in hostilities without congressional authorization, as unconstitutional.”
Text from letter of Rep. Scott Regall (R, VA) to Pres. Obama
Signed by 140 Reps, including 21 Democrats
The letter of Scott Regall (1) to Barak Obama has exploded on the scene with its opening words:
“We strongly urge you to consult and receive authorization from Congress before ordering the use of U.S. military force in Syria. Your responsibility to do so is prescribed in the Constitution and the War Powers Resolution of 1973.
“While the Founders wisely gave the Office of the President the authority to act in emergencies, they foresaw the need to ensure public debate – and the active engagement of Congress – prior to committing U.S. military assets. Engaging our military in Syria when no direct threat to the United States exists and without prior congressional authorization would violate the separation of powers that is clearly delineated in the Constitution.”
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article36055.htm
Adriana, not sure how spammers got hold of your email address. If other people report a problem too, we’ll look into it. For extra security, you don’t have to use your real address if you prefer not to.
In the meantime, my apologies that Mark Golding was abusive towards you – this is out of character for him, in my experience. He may not know that you’ve posted quite a few times, but that would be no excuse anyway.
(Aside: there is some disagreement here as to whether outright abuse ought to be removed, or left standing as a record of what was said. At present, it is left unless there is suspicion of bullying, or a thread is being derailed).
Adriana
To be Fair Jon is Correct, that one was a wee bit out of character for mark, i was very surprised by that comment.
Anyhooo Stick around please
Will rUK have an independent defence force? Not as if the City the banks will cream off as much wealth as possible. When it’s all gone, they will move on so just how will rUK ever manage as a tiny like remnant of Empire to pay for soldiers and their kit?
You say you live in Scotland, Fred. So do I.
You want ultimate power to reside in London, I want it to be in Edinburgh. Until this is finally settled, I would say that makes you a British nationalist, and I a Scottish nationalist, although i’m a member of no political party.
Nothing wrong with being a British nationalist Fred, but at least be honest about it.
After 2014, I hope to not be a nationalist, but an internationalist.
@Juteman
I have already stated I am not a British Nationalist, which part didn’t you understand?
I have not said I want ultimate power to reside in London, you made that up.
There is everything wrong with being a British Nationalist or any other Nationalist, Nationalism is a racist elitist doctrine.
I have had enough of being diverted from the subject of debate to defend myself against Nationalist bullying and lies. Next time you make personal comments about me I will be making personal comments about you.
You just called me a racist. Is everyone in Canada, Australia etc also racist? They voted for independence from London rule?
@Juteman
You really are incredibly stupid.
Answer the question.
At least explain to me why the Scots independence movement is racist, unlike the other ex countries of the British Empire.
Yeah, go on then Fred, answer the question! Having read several of your comments over the last wee while you certainly do talk the usual pish associated with British Nationalism. Are you sure you live in Scotland? You seem to lack even a basic understanding of how things work here.
“Answer the question.”
Didn’t I make myself clear?
Go fuck yourself you heap of puke.
Is that an anagram?
Jon; “At present, it is left unless there is suspicion of bullying, or a thread is being derailed).”
Living up to stated ideals is indeed difficult, as this would apply to 99% of the comments posted by the Habbu-Clown.
(Incidentally Jon, interesting choice for your new Avatar on the Troodos thread at 9.28, or it that a different “Jon” ?)
My analysis of Fred’s somewhat confused views is that:
a. He doesn’t want to see any countries/borders/sovereign states (exept an EU one)
or
b. He believes in the European state so therefore is an European nationalist
or
c. His views are technically about republicanism as opposed to nationalism
or
d. He is a contradictory/hypocrytical kinda guy that cannot comprehend countries becoming independent whilst still getting on great with other countries (the antithesis of the British empire model and the EU if they get their ultimate way of a fully operational central bank)
Fred, if you’re going to be that abusive, I’ll assume that you’re here to discredit support for the union! I’d guess that most people here will be in favour of full independence, so if you continue to post strong criticism of that position – and of course you are welcome to – let us hear your response to the above critiques. I don’t think they are setting out to trap you, fwiw.
I’ve followed a number of your posts on the subject, and my understanding is that you are primarily motivated by an opposition to what you regard as dangerous nationalism. Is that the primary basis of your perspective, or is your main motivation that separation would hurt Scotland economically? I understand you may have posted about that before, and if so please just link to it – I should be most interested to read, if you’ve time.
@Fred
“Just wondering if it will be the Campbells or the McDonalds in charge of the army.”
You poor fool. It will be the Wee Malkies.
The British Labour Party in Scotland have a deep hatred of the SNP. As their own party turned into red Tories to catch the SE England vote, the SNP captured left leaning, ex Labour voters.
As British Labour drift ever rightward, thd SNP vote increases.
This causes some pretty weird mental gymnastics amongst Labour Loyalists. Imagine trying to defend Alastair Darling getting a standing ovation at the Tory Party conference!
@Jon
I would rather you didn’t focus attention on myself, you should discuss the issues not the people.
If you look back you will see I was attempting to hold a rational discussion about the banking crisis when the thread was disrupted with personal abuse directed at myself.
I have tried being civil, it didn’t work so now I will just answer abuse with abuse.
@Jon.
I hope you leave the thread without any changes.
Folk can look for themselves to see where the abuse is.
Any chance you might answer any questions asked of you Fred?
The forum is starting to make sense to me.
Any probing questions against the State of Israel, Habbabkuk jumps in and disrupts the thread without answering questions.
Any probing questions against the British State regarding Scottish independence, Fred jumps in and disrupte the thread without answering questions.
Agents of the state.
“I hope you leave the thread without any changes.
Folk can look for themselves to see where the abuse is.”
Yes, here.
“I wonder if Freds Union Jack underwear is getting a bit sweaty?”
A post made without any connection to the discussion and made purely to insult and attempt to discredit with lies another poster.
Understand yet shit for brains? If you post personal insults and lies about me and the moderator decides to look the other way then I will just be coming back with abuse myself and I can assure you you are just a fucking amateur.
Fred/Juteman (and whoever else) – I’ve little interest in seeing “who started it” months or years ago. These things are fiendishly complex to work out even when one is monitoring a discussion in real-time, and I’ve only a limited amount of time to check in as it is.
So, can one of you be the first to broker a ceasefire? Declarations of winning an argument because one has pushed the other into abuse are surely hollow, and are not how to conduct discourse decently.
Juteman, I do not share your confidence that any particular individuals are agents of the state. They may be, of course, but since it cannot be proven, there’s little worth in speculating.
Fred, the “Union Jack underwear” thing was surely a silly jab, but “shit for brains” is an unnecessary escalation. Just ignore people if you think they are not interested in a discussion, and turn to someone else. There are plenty of people here who would be interested in your thoughts on the union (and, not everyone is pro-independence).
As I mentioned earlier, I for one – having not taken part substantially in discussions on independence here before – would be interested in a link to a summary of your position. I’m English and think that independence would be good for Scotland, since the locus of decision making would be much closer to the people it affects. I’m in favour of their kicking out Trident too, though I don’t know the likelihood of that if full independence was won.
Folk turn to insults and abuse when they have no answers. I’ve asked Fred to explain his anti-Scottish independence position over many threads, but have yet to receive an answer. As he doesn’t give any reasons, i can only assume it is for partisan, Nationalist reasons, the very thing he says he dislikes.
The SNP has may English members Jon, and a couple of English MSP’s, so being English diesn’t mean you can’t have a serious view on the subject.