Alistair Darling has warned Scots that they will lose diplomatic influence if they leave the United Kingdom. He gives Syria as an example. Syria having been such a resounding diplomatic success for the UK, and the UK having contributed hugely to the successful resolution of the conflict – or presumably his reasoning is something like that.
An Independent Scotland would almost certainly not have invaded Iraq and would be most unlikely to have occupied Afghanistan for ten years. It would thus not have squandered vast sums of money, not contributed to the continued political disaster of both countries. An independent Scotland would not be a permanent member of the Security Council. This would impact terribly on the population, who would be benighted like the peoples of Denmark, Sweden, Germany and Australia, in all of which the lives of ordinary people are absolutely intolerable because of their non membership of the Security Council, and all of which have been repeatedly invaded and wiped out in nuclear attacks continually throughout the last six decades.
I worked in multilateral negotiations in both the UN and EU and found colleagues from countries like Ireland, the Netherlands and Canada to be professional competent and influential. The Scots certainly can be all of those. Small countries contribute to policy, to peacekeeping and to humanitarian effort. This latest bit of unionist nonsense is contemptible.
Bloody typos!
“Fred, the “Union Jack underwear” thing was surely a silly jab, but “shit for brains” is an unnecessary escalation.”
Might be just a silly jab to you mate but to me it’s Nationalist lies bullying and intimidation I see far too much of.
If you don’t want to deal with it I will.
Stop being a plonker, Fred. Your childish insults don’t bother me, but you seem to get very angry if called out on your words.
If you aren’t a British Nationalist, then simply explain why you are so opposed to Scottish independence.
How do you propose to ‘deal with it’, Fred? Send your establishment mates round to ‘have a word’? 🙂
“Stop being a plonker, Fred.”
Go fuck yourself putrid fuckwit wanker.
Fred says: “Go fuck yourself putrid fuckwit wanker.”
Well, that’s a bit of a debate stopper, no? Well said, I think I will have to give up this nasty racist nationalism and join the forces of good, as epitomised by your comment. Well done! 😉
This is my first visit to this site. I normally start with the newest comments and work back the way. So far i’ve encountered:
“Go fuck yourself putrid fuckwit wanker.”
“shit for brains”
“Go fuck yourself you heap of puke.”
If this is the level of discussion, I don’t think I’ll bother coming back.
Fred, you do give the impression of being a British nationalist. There is nothing wrong with this, yet you continue to deny it. You seem bitterly opposed to the very idea of Scottish self government. When challenged on this you become abusive. You have no positive case for the union. Instead you fall back on denigration of independence supporters.
Fred:
Why not join us the Scottish Independence (not nationalist) Rally on the 21st.
Many thousands of Scots will be there, from many different social and political backgrounds. The thing that will unite us all will simply be the desire for self determination of their country by those who live there.
Nothing too sinister about that I’d say. Why not come along and have a look. I’d be happy to meet and talk with you. It won’t matter if you don’t change your mind but you’ll find ordinary Scots and non-Scots looking to improve the future of the country they live in for their kids and grand kids. I’m bringing mine along.
Saor Alba
Alex
No need for such playground antics, Fred.
I simply wanted to understand where your anger is coming from.
Alex above mentioned the Rally on the 21st. Come along Fred, and i’ll gladly buy you a beer.
I’m confident you won’t find any ‘fascist elites’ amongst the crowd, and it may change your ideas on ordinary Scots wanting independence.
Jimbo, I agree with you regarding abusive language. We do however have some regulars who, in the face of extreme provocation, stick patiently to debate and reason. My view is that the more people who do that, the more the abusive comments will be sidelined. So – feel free to join in!
I’m with Fred on this one or two. Both his overall views against any form of Nationalism, i.e. another form of Tribalism; as also on the principle of drawing the line on making things personal. Pity people look here for soundbites. I like to look at the whole tree, including its roots, trunk, branches, flowers, fruit. Fred explained himself perfectly well on the comment relating to Union Jack briefs or whatever. Its simple, we like to complicate it.
So what country do you live in Villager, and would you hand over governance to your neighbouring country?
“This is my first visit to this site. I normally start with the newest comments and work back the way. So far i’ve encountered:”
Keep on reading back Jimbo and you’ll see the thread was perfectly civil till shit for brains stuck his oar in.
“Many thousands of Scots will be there, from many different social and political backgrounds. The thing that will unite us all will simply be the desire for self determination of their country by those who live there.”
People in Scotland already has self determination, I have pointed this out many times. It’s an easily provable point for anyone who wants to look up the definition of self determination and see that it applies to Scotland. Scotland has more representatives at Westminster per head of population than the rest of Britain and our own parliament as well.
So how come you keep on claiming people in Scotland don’t have self determination when it is obvious they do? How is it possible to have a rational discussion with people who just keep on repeating blatant untruths?
BTW there are a few selves in these parts who have determined they don’t want biscuit tin Scottishness imposed on them, don’t they count?
http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/News/Bullet-shots-found-on-Bilingual-sign-03092013.htm
People aren’t campaigning for Scotland’s independence in order to achieve influence in the World. The purpose of Gaining that independence is to avoid the austerity being administered from Westminister (which ever party is in power).
The purpose of Gaining that independence is to give Scots living in poverty a better life. to create a more equal society than is possible nder Westminister rule.
If people living in the “Rest of the UK” want to continue voting for austerity, endless war, mal-nourished British Kids and Trident, then that’s their choice.
@Fred
‘Keep on reading back Jimbo and you’ll see the thread was perfectly civil till shit for brains stuck his oar in.’
You are being abusive once again. You obviously cannot see the irony in your own comments.
@Fred
‘People in Scotland already has self determination, I have pointed this out many times. It’s an easily provable point for anyone who wants to look up the definition of self determination and see that it applies to Scotland. Scotland has more representatives at Westminster per head of population than the rest of Britain and our own parliament as well.’
Scotland does not have self determination already. That is patently false. If Scotland did we would be represented in the UN, and other international orgainsations.
@Clydebuilt 11.53
Pearls before swine…
Fred says Scotland already has self determination.
Remind me why we are having a referendum?
“Scotland does not have self determination already. That is patently false. If Scotland did we would be represented in the UN, and other international orgainsations.”
Scotland is represented at the UN, by the UK representative, just like everyone else in Britain is.
Just last week the MPs from Scotland determined Britain would not at this time be attacking Syria.
“Remind me why we are having a referendum?”
The fact we are having a referendum proves without any shadow of a doubt we have self determination.
“Scotland is represented at the UN, by the UK representative, just like everyone else in Britain is.”
Thanks for confirming you’re a British nationalist, Fred.
Not that there was any doubt. 🙂
“The fact we are having a referendum proves without any shadow of a doubt we have self determination”
Correct. Up until September 2014, the future government of Scotland rests with the citizens of Scotland. A YES vote guarantees that will continue, a NO gives control back to Westminster. London could abolish the Scottish parliament in the event of a NO. Some Unionists are already saying this should happen.
“Just last week the MPs from Scotland determined Britain would not at this time be attacking Syria.”
My emphasis, but what a revealing choice of words.
@Fred
‘Scotland is represented at the UN, by the UK representative, just like everyone else in Britain is.’
Scotland is represented by the UK at the UN. However, as Scotland is clearly a nation (only British nationalists deny this), then we clearly do not have self determination yet. Only a Yes vote in next years’ referendum will see Scotland achieving self determination.
“BTW there are a few selves in these parts who have determined they don’t want biscuit tin Scottishness imposed on them, don’t they count?”
http://www.johnogroat-journal.co.uk/News/Bullet-shots-found-on-Bilingual-sign-03092013.htm
Lol (and long).
Shooting at road signs is a traditional rural entertainment. Those look like an air rifle, but might just be pellets from the edge of a shotgun pattern – lousy shooting if so. (estimating the angles from a moving vehicle is tricky) Some better examples here:
http://www.gunfire-graffiti.co.uk/
The Hootsmon naturally jumped on this story:
http://www.scotsman.com/news/scotland/top-stories/anti-gaelic-gunmen-shoot-road-sign-in-caithness-1-3075913
“Blasted by gunfire” no less. I think we need to take this to the UN.
Two other points:
1.Anyone living near Wick has to entertain himself as best he can. It’s no hotbed of culture or fun.
2. In neither article is there any evidence whatever that the perpetrator was anti-Gaelic, anti-independence or anything more than slightly antisocial. The evidence conclusively shows only that he/she had some kind of projectile weapon.
“Thanks for confirming you’re a British nationalist, Fred.”
I have not confirmed I am British Nationalist shit for brains.
I have tried to engage in rational debate but as usual all I get in return is personal attacks and insults so if you can’t discus the issues not me it’s back to the flamewar fuckwit.
“Scotland is represented by the UK at the UN. However, as Scotland is clearly a nation (only British nationalists deny this), then we clearly do not have self determination yet. Only a Yes vote in next years’ referendum will see Scotland achieving self determination.”
First can you provide evidence that only British Nationalists consider Scotland a nation?
Secondly Texas is obviously a state but they don’t have their own representative at the UN either.
Your argument is total rubbish, laughable.