Ray McGovern and the Sam Adams party have presented the Sam Adams award to Edward Snowden. I am delighted. This from Ray’s account of the event:
In brief remarks from his visitors, Snowden was reassured — first and foremost — that he need no longer be worried that nothing significant would happen as a result of his decision to risk his future by revealing documentary proof that the U.S. government was playing fast and loose with the Constitutional rights of Americans.
Even amid the government shutdown, Establishment Washington and the normally docile “mainstream media” have not been able to deflect attention from the intrusive eavesdropping that makes a mockery of the Fourth Amendment. Even Congress is showing signs of awaking from its torpor.
In the somnolent Senate, a few hardy souls have gone so far as to express displeasure at having been lied to by Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and NSA Director Keith Alexander — Clapper having formally apologized for telling the Senate Intelligence Committee eavesdropping-related things that were, in his words, “clearly erroneous” and Alexander having told now-discredited whoppers about the effectiveness of NSA’s intrusive and unconstitutional methods in combating terrorism.
Coleen Rowley, the first winner of the Sam Adams Award (2002), cited some little-known history to remind Snowden that he is in good company as a whistleblower — and not only because of previous Sam Adams honorees. She noted that in 1773, Benjamin Franklin leaked confidential information by releasing letters written by then-Lt. Governor of Massachusetts Thomas Hutchinson to Thomas Whatley, an assistant to the British Prime Minister.
The letters suggested that it was impossible for the colonists to enjoy the same rights as subjects living in England and that “an abridgement of what are called English liberties” might be necessary. The content of the letters was so damaging to the British government that Benjamin Franklin was dismissed as colonial Postmaster General and had to endure an hour-long censure from British Solicitor General Alexander Wedderburn.
There has been a determined attempt by government to justify the need to intercept everybody’s communications, all the time. We have, yet again, had MI5 claim there are many thousand violent Islamic terrorists running around the UK, (yet somehow not managing to kill anybody). The cry of “paedophiles” is raised, as always. I can imagine them suggesting the entire population be shot dead, and justifying it as making sure they get the paedophiles. The tabloids would go with that.
There still had not been a single credible claim by the mainstream media that any named individual has died, despite that contingency being trotted out all the time as the reason Snowden and Manning should not have revealed state crimes and abuse of power. I am hopeful that, with the internet still largely free to the dissemination of information, out next massive whistleblower is only weeks away.
whatever. I object to your bullying, indiscriminate and disproportionate attacks on another poster, Fedup..
FALSE…In the insinuated sense…that Fedup picks on posters in the same way Mary was targeted.
And you want the Poison Back….It never Left Did it… You. And. Village Child… Jemand Kicks in..All in a Row..Dreoilin, All in a row… a few bits of Politics… to tame the Mod… TO TAME THE MOD….Sorry Jon, but thats whats going down here.
Ecactly Daniel
Well said…
lets meet humans….
I really did think that H could be persuaded to discourse with civility – he/she clearly has the intelligence for it. Thus, in some sense, I count banning him/her as something of a failure….
Now then… Ju Know what… the ONLY people who see problems with this shit Are Paid Trolls.. otherwise i would use the TRUTH …PAID ZioFuckwits
Daniel Rich, thanks. In amongst that flurry of words there appears to be a partial explanation. Maybe it wasn’t the S-word afterall, but the implication of r@pe in juxtaposition to the word ‘child’.
Rude imagery, to be sure, but no less rude than a similar comment by me directed at the indefatiguably stupid Fedup-Passerby. My comment stood (maybe still does), so I’m guessing that the offending passage was not sufficiently offensive by itself to have justified Habbabkuk’s banning. Which then suggests that our comments can individually pass moderation but, in aggregate, still result in our unceremonious banning.
What irks me is that there are rules at play that the mods won’t formalise for the purpose of clarification and self-regulation. That runs counter to conventional wisdom and popular notions of fair play. But we’ve had this conversation before, all to no avail.
Brian, are you a member of the VIP clique here who enjoy the privilege of protection from criticism while flinging mud at others?
Wreckers here last night and overnight en masse to such an extent that people are deterred from visiting or commenting. That is the intention presumably and Craig’s blog, once a civilized meeting place for decent minded people, goes down.
Wreckers in the US Congress too. America might well go down, along with the dollar, taking all of us in its wake. China is waiting in the wings. Beware Tea Partygoers and Repuglicans. Take care of your $13 trillion debt, stop your war machine in its tracks and behave like human beings.
Wreckers here too in the fascist leaning government. No beds for mental patients. No decent care for the frail and elderly. No homes for the homeless and no food for the hungry unless there is a food bank nearby. Meanwhile we have just seen that display of pure greed enacted on the stock exchange and a big farrago being built up by the pocket pols on Plebgate which is yet another distraction.
I see all of this from the perspective of learning last night from a friend of 30 years’ standing, whose husband received a diagnosis of Parkinson’s Disease earlier in the year, that she has been diagnosed with Motor Neurone Disease. She is already lame on one leg and is using a stick. She is having difficulty in speaking, eating and swallowing and there has been a rapid onset of these symptoms. Surrey community health services, now privatised, are looking into her case to see what help can be provided in the home! Don’t hold your breath my dear friend. Your friends will come to the rescue.
Might make you think on dear trolls.
Off out for the day to breathe some clean air.
I am taking a holiday from commenting on this blog. Principally because the comments now consist largely of bickering, substantive comment is rare, and there is absolutely no bloody point.
I think the comments section has lost any point it may once have had, and the co-ordinated attempts by those with a very different agenda to Craig’s, to urge a Daily Mail mindset on the rest of us, have resulted in the chaos we now see. Well done them. I find them an incentive to more direct action, and others may agree that expressing your thoughts on a blog may not be the best way to get things done and pissants removed from power. Whatever: nice guys*, it’s been great knowing you, and Dacre’s shills, or whatever you are, take a flying fuck.
*even Fred
Bye.
What we have here is a forum disappearing up it’s own arsehole.
The reason is plain, the focus of attention has been turned inwards at each other instead of outwards at the events of the world, the usual tactic of trolls and control freaks, this is why I have a zero tolerance when it comes to personal attacks.
While the blog has a policy of supporting those who only ever post here to snipe at others, in the name of freedom of speech, yet penalises those who stand up to the bullies it hasn’t much chance.
Thank you for suppressing and banning the persistent, disruptive, juvenile trolls.
Gaia.
“Thank you for suppressing and banning the persistent, disruptive, juvenile trolls.”
I second that request.
This blog has been ruined (by pro-zionist “trolls”) which has prevented me engaging.
Some may consider this a success…
Jon I don’t envy you but thought I would throw in my 2 pennies worth.
Mary. 8 34am
I’m sorry to her about your friends’ troubles. Multiply it by hundreds of thousands and you’ll get the extent of the havoc being caused by the misery machine and its servants.
Enjoy your day under the sky and return to refreshed and more persistent than ever..
As for the army of incompetents patrolling the blogosphere. Yes maybe they put some people off visiting but I have the feeling now they only convince themselves and I’m not even sure about that. On the positive side, they do flag the crucial issues and clearly show that they have few rational reasons to offer for the obscenities they seek to shield.
I’ll miss your tireless digging.
…
Komodo. 8 41am
“…there is absolutely no bloody point…”
When I burst into her tree-house in floods of disconsolate tears Wassamadda the healer-woman told me your problem is you’re just tired and hungry……nothing a good leg of tricyclist and a lazy day in the sun wont cure. And she says your comments are a good part of the point ‘cos they all chip away at the fairytales and she enjoys them anyway.
…
I’m off too for a while ‘cos I’ve got a life to live in the forest but I’ll rest assured that the conversations Craig Murray sparks off here are leaking into the world and going feral. It’ll take more than an army of trolls to put them back in the bottle.
…
Experience the sweetness of the only democracy in the Middle East here,
http://electronicintifada.net/content/video-israeli-crowd-cheers-africans-called-slaves/12833
I think my favourite poster here is Mary. Her wisdom, humour and intelligence puts all the other contributions in the shade. Keep posting Mary, and ignore all the trolls! Some of us appreciate your presence. Thanks.
@Komodo ‘I am taking a holiday from commenting on this blog. Principally because the comments now consist largely of bickering, substantive comment is rare…’
Yes, I took a holiday a while ago for largely the same reasons. But I put some of the blame on Craig’s shoulders. Maybe I’m saying the unsayable here but I have felt for a while now that he doesn’t care about the comments section. I remember him saying once that the viewing stats show hardly any of the visitors to the blog read the comments, and I suspect he acts accordingly. There is (or was) a dedicated and loyal following here but I don’t think that loyalty has been appreciated or supported. People are always on Jon’s case but it seems evident from his comments that he is not being fairly treated by Craig. Jon says he has made repeated attempts to get a response from Craig on moderation issues wihtout success. Huh? Craig has a blog with an active and loyal following, and a guy who works hard, without remuneration, to handle the technical side of things, and Craig won’t answer his emails? I think this is basic blog courtesy we are talking about here. If it’s too much trouble, then turn the comments off.
My ten cents.
Very interesting comment, KingofWelshNoir. The very same view has been expressed by a member of my own family.
KOWN
well said mate.
Craig would do well to remember his “The Al-Hilli Conundrum” post:
My post on the shootings in France has brought tens of thousands of people to this site – but not to read my dull contribution. People are coming to read the comments from other readers.
Daniel Rich
And there is an additional problem now — morale of the workers who are supposed to be doing ‘clean-up’
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/oct/15/fukushima-nuclear-power-plant-cleanup
“decommissioning operation that is expected to last 40 years”
Ben Franklin -Machine Gun Preacher (Unleaded Version)
16 Oct, 2013 – 1:13 am
Who was it said, “May you live in interesting times”? Must have been an asshole.
Ben, it is said that “May you live in interesting times” is a Chinese curse. (Though its origins are disputed.)
I had bookmarked a site that I thought you would find interesting, and was waiting for a suitable discourse in which to post it, but we seem to have come a long way from music, so I’ll post it now. Villager would also find this stuff interesting, I’m sure.
http://www.truthcontest.com/entries/the-present-universal-truth/beatles.html
Mary
16 Oct, 2013 – 8:34 am
“I see all of this from the perspective of learning last night from a friend of 30 years’ standing, whose husband received a diagnosis of Parkinson’s Disease earlier in the year, that she has been diagnosed with Motor Neurone Disease.”
I’m interested in herbalism and have lately been looking at some amazing findings on the benefits of cannabis in disease.
Rick Simpson has been working with cannabis oil. Though this requires a pound of flower buds to make a course of treatment, so would be expensive and difficult to buy.
http://www.simpson-oil.com/
But, perhaps even more surprising has been the findings of those working with raw cannabis juice, which is made from the fan leaves of the plant rather than the flower buds and has no psychoactivity. These fan leaves are thrown away by the bagfull by those growing for recreational purposes.
The Power of RAW Cannabis –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qgEP9FdIzT8
also –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DchOfBeDypg
Though it is probably illegal to encourage cultivation, I should tell you that a google search on Attitude Seedbank will provide details of pretty well every seed available; and that for growing indoors, you only have to visit one of the hydroponics shops in most districts, and ask the staff, to find out all you need to know.
It is ludicrous that in the US many states allow medical marijuana to benefit people with the problems suffered by your friends, whilst here in the UK… same old, same old.
NSA “harvesting” electronic address books and contact lists
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/10/16/surv-o16.html
“I think my favourite poster here is Mary. Her wisdom, humour and intelligence puts all the other contributions in the shade. Keep posting Mary, and ignore all the trolls! Some of us appreciate your presence. Thanks.”
Cut and paste is wisdom?
Sarcastic sneering at establishment figures is humour?
Zero political analysis is intelligence?
Hilarious! Mary, you really have to stop posting fan mail under other names.
Mary: sorry to hear about your friend. I know nothing about MND, but I do know quite a lot about Parkinsons.
One thing your friend’s husband could try is to get tested for the presence of Helicobacter pylori; a common stomach infection. It has been associated with Parkinsons. My relative tested positive; took the antibiotic treatment to eradicate it and saw a significant improvement in symptoms?
Don’t worry I (and others) shall be back when there are some arguments to engage with – in the meantime the lovers of censorship and worse can just indulge in their usual games.
This is passed as “contribution”
The above, along with a gang of certain other “contributors” who pile in on Fedup, and then end up espousing complaints about “bullying”! ?This conduct is an ll too telling traits of the the psychological make up of the bully that cannot tolerate/entertain/envisage anyone standing up to them. That is the underlying dysfunction that this blog has come to suffer from.
The notions of “free speech” and “liberal values” applied without the contextualisation of the human rights of others is an illiberal act in suppression of the freedom of expression of the other contributors whom are taking flight one after another. What is any value of the above “contribution” and the cohorts of the ilk of the ziofuckwits that have been blighting the comments section?
BrianFujisan I agree with your analysis, the operation is to tame the Moderator, and it has succeeded in allowing the comment section to fall victim to the orchestrated campaign of disinformation and suppression of facts and truths. Fact that Fedup is ganged up on by at least seven “contributors”, as the constant torrents of abuse/snarling/derision directed at him in evidence and clear for all to see, which is then whitewashed/projected as charges of “bullying” is a patently obvious ploy and tried and tested method of the bullying and nastiness towards him.
Sadly this is reflective of our democracy too, this is how UK has been conquered and sent down the tubes, through the not so different tactics of the same operatives with a more direct access to the levers of power.
The above “contribution” if it were to be directed at a “Jew” the cries of anti this and that would have been deafening, as it stands it is an accepted and tolerated part of being in the present day UK to heap derision and humiliation upon Muslims.
This comment section is only too reflective of our current arrangements in the wider society, truly shocking and singular failure of inclusiveness and tolerance. The fact is our politics have been hijacked, and our values debased and these sacrifices have been to accommodate and appease the crazed ziofuckwits, in their declared war on the quarter of the inhabitants of this planet.
It is Sad to see most of the contributors are taking flight while the comment sections is saddled with the culprits who came here to disrupt and suppress, as the evidence clearly proves.
At least 9 trolls,in tag team mode,for nearly a year to attempt to disrupt this blog.
Pathetic.
Hasbara boot boys clear for all to see.Cant imagine they’re winning hearts and minds with their mission,more likely revealing themselves as the sinister bullies that they are.Their methods of gang-stalking and goon squad dynamics wholly in keeping with the fake War On Terror’s culture of intimidation,not so subtle psychological attacks and idiotic posturing.
Today the blogs,tomorrow our front doors at 4am probably.
With boots on,no doubt.
Anyone who has learned from others here and there and holds it lovingly in their heart will value their nights when people are asleep, their days when people are given to excess, their grief when people are joyful, their weeping when people laugh, their silence when people chatter and their humility when people are arrogant.
In other words every moment of life will be precious to them, and they may therefore be ‘gentle’, never harsh nor quarrelsome, nor one who makes a clamour in the market nor one who is quick to anger’.
Anon.
Heh, so here we are, in another discussion about moderation, freedom of speech, and so forth. I appreciate why it is necessary – our lack of policy means that the few who don’t care for ordinary social etiquette (insults, swearing, sneering, spite directed at others present) don’t know what they are permitted to “get away” with. Lines are frequently tested that would, in ordinary life, end quickly with a bloody nose and a call to the police.
Personally – and I am sure I’ve said it before – I don’t find this a great way to engage with any internet board. There are several posters here who have plenty of productive input to offer, and are able to absorb mild offence whilst giving none in return. I salute those people as the bedrock of good discussion, and wish them all the best. There are too many of them to name.
The minority who spoil it for everyone seem to be unable to conduct themselves in a reasonable and mature fashion, and every bout of negativity they cause seems to persist like a cloud for a few days, preventing any sustained and interesting exchange. If we could nip it in the bud, I am confident that we would bounce back to productive conversations in short order, but without guidelines to make this possible, it’s not going to happen.
I am certainly intrigued as to why there are people actively wishing to inflict emotional hurt upon others, and witnessing it all has made for a fascinating study of the human condition. Psychology – of a very amateur form – is one of my side interests. But I do not subscribe, in the main, to the idea that we have much in the way of paid disruption here; I think the people who have been engaging in this behaviour persistently are quite willing to do it for free. This is sad (both for themselves and for the group) but how much people can be blamed for the shaping of their own character is a complex and fascinating discussion that veers greatly from the points I am making.
As I have said in the past, I’ve had a greater visibility here as a moderator than I would have wished, but given the circumstances I think it has been unavoidable. Moderation needs to tread a line between accountability and invisibility, and we don’t really have the tools to do it, never mind directions from the boss to make it all happen.
So, on Monday I let Craig know that I will be stepping away from moderation for the time being. This means that it is not feasible for any remaining bans to stay in place, so I hope that if Habbabkuk and Krishamurky resume posting, old emnities can be forgotten about, or at least reduce in intensity. Craig and I did start an email conversation about Habbabkuk’s ban, but I am left without an answer to my last one, again.
I understand that my time as moderator will have delighted some people and enraged others. I make peace with all in the latter category – even Villager hitting me over the head with various placards! – as life is too short. Hopefully any lingering frustrations can now be laid to rest, and we’ll see if the comments section can resume a new life of sorts without moderation. I have asked Craig to appoint a new person, which I think might be expedited if we get the malicious free-for-all that I am resignedly expecting.
For those of a sensitive disposition, I am inclined to recommend that you check how you feel periodically, if you continue to post. Step away from the blog frequently, and do not ever regard it as important to keep on contributing. We are all in need of the feeling of social inclusion, and moving away from a community – even an electronic one – can be jarring. I’ve seen all manner of great upsets here, spilling out into ordinary life – and wish it upon no-one.
Anyway, peace and good wishes to all. I expect I’ll continue to write in an Ordinary Joe capacity. Meantime, I’ll be setting up an eBay business selling virtual Kevlar jackets – half price introductory offer!
Still going to come here for the links, as this is a unique group. Hardly notice the statist meta nyah-nyah-nyah anymore, it’s white noise. In return, when next I get some nice SCI I’ll put it up here (come on, when did Snowden ever say he acted alone?), keep the Foreign-Service pederasts on their twinkle-toes.
Rouge; Thanks for the link on Fabfour lyrics.
Ever heard of Green Dragon? Easiest extraction is with alcohol. Take a one quart Mason Jar, fill with flake and stems from harvest (use buds if you want but grind it) and fill with Bacardi 151. Let sit for two-three weeks, shaking occasionally. Enjoy.
Jon; Don’t become a stranger.
I will once again support Jon’s remedy for anarchy cooks. Ignore the knee-jerk impulse to respond.
Sorry to see you go, Jon, but I don’t blame you – you’ve been in an impossible situation. Thanks for all you’ve done, and I’m glad we’ll still hear from you in ‘Ordinary Joe’ mode.
To those of you who haven’t got the self-restraint or sense to stop engaging with the deliberately disruptive posters, nothing I can say will stop you, so carry on but don’t kid yourselves that you’re not part of the problem.