Ray McGovern and the Sam Adams party have presented the Sam Adams award to Edward Snowden. I am delighted. This from Ray’s account of the event:
In brief remarks from his visitors, Snowden was reassured — first and foremost — that he need no longer be worried that nothing significant would happen as a result of his decision to risk his future by revealing documentary proof that the U.S. government was playing fast and loose with the Constitutional rights of Americans.
Even amid the government shutdown, Establishment Washington and the normally docile “mainstream media” have not been able to deflect attention from the intrusive eavesdropping that makes a mockery of the Fourth Amendment. Even Congress is showing signs of awaking from its torpor.
In the somnolent Senate, a few hardy souls have gone so far as to express displeasure at having been lied to by Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and NSA Director Keith Alexander — Clapper having formally apologized for telling the Senate Intelligence Committee eavesdropping-related things that were, in his words, “clearly erroneous” and Alexander having told now-discredited whoppers about the effectiveness of NSA’s intrusive and unconstitutional methods in combating terrorism.
Coleen Rowley, the first winner of the Sam Adams Award (2002), cited some little-known history to remind Snowden that he is in good company as a whistleblower — and not only because of previous Sam Adams honorees. She noted that in 1773, Benjamin Franklin leaked confidential information by releasing letters written by then-Lt. Governor of Massachusetts Thomas Hutchinson to Thomas Whatley, an assistant to the British Prime Minister.
The letters suggested that it was impossible for the colonists to enjoy the same rights as subjects living in England and that “an abridgement of what are called English liberties” might be necessary. The content of the letters was so damaging to the British government that Benjamin Franklin was dismissed as colonial Postmaster General and had to endure an hour-long censure from British Solicitor General Alexander Wedderburn.
There has been a determined attempt by government to justify the need to intercept everybody’s communications, all the time. We have, yet again, had MI5 claim there are many thousand violent Islamic terrorists running around the UK, (yet somehow not managing to kill anybody). The cry of “paedophiles” is raised, as always. I can imagine them suggesting the entire population be shot dead, and justifying it as making sure they get the paedophiles. The tabloids would go with that.
There still had not been a single credible claim by the mainstream media that any named individual has died, despite that contingency being trotted out all the time as the reason Snowden and Manning should not have revealed state crimes and abuse of power. I am hopeful that, with the internet still largely free to the dissemination of information, out next massive whistleblower is only weeks away.
“They will even be happy just talking to each other & turing the comments section of this Blog into a Zionist supporting playground just like Harry’s Place.”
Who of your ‘trolls’ has ever expressed support for Zionism? Name, date and quote please.
“No, I prefer the whack-a-troll mole approach, just having the satisfaction of shredding their bogus attempts at debating, and watching them having to change course & tactics, is good enough for me, rather than let nonsense go unchallenged, because at least I know that they know that I know they are full of crap.”
Riiiiiiight.
Are you some kind of self-hating Jew, Anon? Making the goy read an obvious fake? Why not tell him to read the Protocols? Sometimes I despair. What we need is solidarity against the bleeding hearts who think Arabs have any right to live in Judea and Samaria. Like these good ladies have –
http://www.womeningreen.org/2ndConvention.php
We didn’t rename the place for fun. It’s ours, and no-one else’s.
Someone was wondering whether we favoured a negotiated settlement with the subhuman dross who don’t get Israeli citizenship. We do. They go and live in Jordan, we stay here. There’s your two state solution. What are you all complaining about?
“Now you switch”
No, it’s not a switch, instead you are showing your inability to follow logical argumentation; whetever the story is a hoax or not is really irrelevant in the context of this Blog attracting the probable attention of paid or voluntary Shills, aiming to negate any critics of Israel. A likelihood made feasible by numerous reports that the Israelis are encouraging, training & even paying for this sort of activity.
“There is nothing particularly sinister about that”
You really have no idea what “promoting” Israel online really involves !?
Anon, there is no record here and it does not matter what I or others think, because here we write and only a few of us have ever met each other in person, face to face.
I really appreciated meeting all those who helped in Norwich North, coming from 9 different countries, all eager to help Craig deliver leaflets and canvass support.
Chloe is already on the stumps, ready for the off with the help of St. Theresa.
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/home_secretary_theresa_may_set_to_visit_norwich_today_1_2900551
Macky, you appear to be moving the goalposts. You described the “Confessions of a Zionist paid troll” as “seemingly very plausible”, “likely to be true” and helping to confirm what you already suspected. Do you stand by these statements?
Gosh its all happening here in the east today. The incinerator in Kings Lynn Saddlebow has had their Government funding withdrawn, what great news.
Finally Norfolk county councillors will be allowed to debate options that provide solutions to Norfolks needs. The cabal of 9 who signed this contract with Cory Wheelabrator and who kept debate and voting on the plant away from our representatives undermining democratic discourse, should have their assets seized in lieyu for paying the 20.3 million compensation for these US envrironmental criminals they so trusted.
why should counciltaxpayers fork out for such backroom deals.
http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/government_withdraws_funding_for_west_norfolk_incinerator_1_2903516
Macky. You are doing sterling work but don’t waste your time with them. They just another go at filling up the blog.
The new one with the Hebrew name is ‘Israel’s Everywhere’ according to Google Translate and if anyone knows that, it’s Mr Sergey Brin co founder of Google and a keen supporter of the little democracy in the ME.
And of course this from yesterday was the absolute truth. 🙂
For the return of Habba and Free Speech
17 Oct, 2013 – 1:24 pm
Mary
I was previously anon – and apart from what I say that is all I shall reveal – but I’m not Habba, Villager or anyone else for that matter.
They must think we’re as green as my cabbages!
Anon: While I’m open to the possibility that that particular hasbara confession was a hoax, I have to say that having had a look around the internet, and having considered your own argument, this really doesn’t look very likely. If something posted on one dubious website is all the ammunition you can muster, then I remain unconvinced . . .
But in a sense, the authenticity of this particular story is irrelevant, since there are many reports from reputable sites that paid Zionist trolls are a fact of internet life. We know, for example, that the National Union of Israeli Students offers to pay students “to deepen and expand hasbara activities” . . . “Students will be paid a total of NIS 7,500 [$2,000] to perform the tasks of the project, at least 5 hours weekly for a total of 240 hours of activities under the project umbrella.” This is quoted from a translation of a document issues by the NUIS:
http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israeli-students-get-2000-spread-state-propaganda-facebook#NUISinternet.
Its authenticity can be easily checked by any Hebrew speaker. Here’s the original:
http://www.oranim.ac.il/sites/heb/SiteCollectionImages/aguda/documents/antishemiut.pdf
Of course, you will probably claim that this is a hoax as well, along with all the other reports. If so, I can only say that the hoaxers seem to have a truly extraordinary ability to perpetrate hoaxes across a variety of otherwise reputable websites . . .
…they just HAVE another go…..
Excellent news there Nevermind. The company with the silly name can push off.
If you think Norfolk is bad, you should read these two links, one about the county council and the others about the goings on in a neighbouring Surrey borough council. Soon GBC will be in Private Eye’s Rotten Boroughs section.
Jobs for more of the boys to help the Tory boys in Kingston
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/new-surrey-cabinet-associate-roles-6169219
Look at his smug expression and note all the secrecy
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/six-figure-exit-package-guildford-borough-6169687
The leader of that council has two convictions for drink driving but he is not resigning. A fine upstanding Tory citizen!
http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/local-news/drink-drive-councillor-should-not-leader-4807189
“Do you stand by these statements?”
Yes, but I repeat that I do not know, or have a way of knowing, if the story is actually real or not; even if not, I would be very surprised if something very close to this in reality has not actually occurred. I do know however, that you are attempting to make it a blatant diversion from the original subject.
Anyhow, I think this comment from your linked site sums up my own postion very well;
” I don’t really care whether this story is true or not, it doesn’t matter. What matters is, its highly likely there are groups of people being payed and instructed to redirect and influence people online. This is a no duh thing here. They do this every night and day in the MSM and without anonymity, the process and procedures are right there in front of everyone’s face, the agenda is obvious and the direction they want to influence people is obvious. Pro Israel…Why would this be limited to TV media?
Of course they would be utilizing the internet, the net is quickly becoming the #1 source of information for everyone…The rating drops for major news networks is evidence of this.
I say pro Israel because I don’t think I can remember a time when MSM was critical of Israel in anyway significant…according to the MSM you would think Israel is the best thing since sliced bread…The stories they choose to focus on tend to usually be very sympathetic to Israel/Jews. Israel is usually portrayed as the “victim’ in whatever news story that involves them.
I find some of the information in the story very interesting personally and pretty credible in a practical sense. The “method” they would train someone to do such a thing as “shill’ seems pretty cost-effective, doesn’t seem like a lot of resources went into it other than “finding the right type of person” and handing them a binder with talking points.
This really isn’t any different than what news anchors/talking heads do every night. Put Bill Oreily behind a computer with a neat avatar and an anonymous name and you wouldn’t know the difference between him and what a “shill” would sound like.
I believe in shills or moles or paid propagandists or whatever you want to call them…so whether or not the OP’s story is true or not doesn’t matter to me…”
“The new one with the Hebrew name is ‘Israel’s Everywhere’ ”
I think you have not read his posts correctly; they are parodies & are making fun of the pro Zionists arguments.
As it has been already stated by others too, the J. Edgar syndrome blighting this blogs “adjudicator” ended up in fact suppressing freedom of expression and to further reinforce the current repression of all things concerned with the opponents of the ziofuckwits. The active oppression and suppression of dissent against ziofuckwits, could have been explained away as the attempt to maintain advertising revenues, and or the fringe benefits derived for the blog’s owner.
However in the absence of the former, and the fact that the latter could not be the case because the blog’s owner is on the “shit list” of too many pooh bah, and institutions, that despise his zeal for integrity in the discharge of his duty and his commitment to upholding the human rights and exposing the evil doers. Thus leading to the conundrum; why was there such a tolerance of the outright hostilities of the mercenary gang of ziofuckwits despatched to this blog?
In fact there was the silly notion floated that if Mary and others stopped being so anti ziofuckwit the blog would be more functional!
Having seen the ziofuckwit mercenaries in operation for the last thirty years;
1- super gluing the locks to the conference rooms
2- stealing material and literature arranged to be distributed during the meeting.
3- double booking the halls
4- stealing and preventing the delivery of the chairs and tables
5- goons hanging around the car park with cameras and phones, and walkie-talkies
6- hecklers coming into the hall and disrupting the meeting
7- goons arriving and intimidating the people and kicking around the tables and chairs.
……
Then there is the cyberspace, which has been dogged by these vermin in their attempt to suppress any kind of dissent, to maintain the bubble of unreality propagated through their proxies in the wider media. This of course is passed as “public diplomacy”.
There can be no dialogue that can be engaged in with these psychotics high on inflicting misery, death, and destruction with impunity. The “public diplomacy” is yet another angle of “doing war with deception” that is designed to garner support for the cause of the mass murdering, genocidal land stealer, all the while demonising the victims of these vile supremacists.
The peace talks only mean; piece of Palestine, piece of Lebanon, piece of Jordan, piece of Syria, piece of Egypt, …… There is no intention of stopping the murderous conduct of the entity created to carry out such atrocities, and will do so until such time that either money runs out or the weapons flow stops! There is the other alternative of arming the Palestinians and promoting a military parity which will soon result in a clamour for ceasefire and “peace talks”.
Macky, They are so tricky how can you be sure about the provenance of the newcomer? They are good at leading people up the garden path. I have seen two American websites attacked by trolls’ comments to the extent that comments were shut down.
Israel will soon control Southern Syria thanks to arch zionist David Cameron. why complain about the shills? Why not complain about the zionist shite who rule us who have done Israel’s work for the last 200 years?
@Mary
“I was previously anon – and apart from what I say that is all I shall reveal – but I’m not Habba, Villager or anyone else for that matter.
They must think we’re as green as my cabbages!”
This red cabbage just cannot stop feeding us!
“They are so tricky how can you be sure”
If it’s not a piss-take, then it’s the worse pro-Zionist advocate ever, guaranteed to turn even Islamophobes into siding with the Palestinians !!
This is really all quite comical – imteresting to see how some collapse into a state of paranoia with next no outside assistance – my advice to any genuine trolls would be to just standback and enjoy!
“why complain about the shills? Why not complain about the zionist shite who rule us”
Because it’s the shills who enable the elites to operate, they act as bodyguards, & useful idiots, to try to deflect us from exposing & holding the corrupt politicians to account.
(Not as OT as it seems)
Andy Goldsworthy’s beautiful creations are mostly outdoors and made of localy occuring materials. They are intended to disintegrate back into their environment.
http://www.morning-earth.org/ARTISTNATURALISTS/AN_Goldsworthy.html
I’m offering this as an analogy to way threads develop and decay here.
Should we worry if sometimes the infestations that are part of the process destroy a good thread? Maybe we can trust in ourselves a little, confident that another will soon be under construction.
I think most of them are informative, alive and occasionally entertaining, as well as all the other stuff.
In the process the narratives they challenge, and the enforcers who seek to maintain obedience to them lose their power. And that’s not just here on a small blog thread but increasingly out there in the world. Witness the vote recent UK vote against war and the clear signals that US Congress would do the same. Also the fact that, as it turned out nobody was surprised by Snowden’s revelations!
So yes, A Node, of course you are right not to feed the trolls, but, given that the infestation will not go away, surely Macky’s “Whack a Mole” efforts add value too by showing what’s going on and how incompetent the wreckers are.
Even Dad and his colleagues perform a valuable, if rather clumsily executed, service in flagging up key issues and being either unwilling or unable convincingly to defend the warmongers and occupiers.
Like a trail of dog poos in the street we can skip around them, or occasionally, point one out and enjoy its uncanny resemblance to Grandma. Or whatever.
So each to his/her own style. Even Dad, bless him.
…
The sun has just set and the plaintive kaws of the jabbacrows are now joined by the deep resonance of the Notalambeg calling us to sup on roast kupi and woraworu fruit. And who knows what we’ll wash that down with! Must go.
Vive la Diversité
Parody?
The language may be a little explicit, but I do assure you my attitude is completely shared by my fellow settlers. Yerushaleim is in Hebrew, so many of you can’t read it, but the subhumans at IMEMC can (maybe one of them slipped through the net and stole a wonderful Israeli education), and this article will help you to see that we’re not too bothered about peace talks.
Sorry – http://www.imemc.org/article/66246
The ‘true vibrations’ I commented in an earlier post are, as witnessed here, delivering the ‘money lenders’ who will crawl ‘out of the woodwork’ to protect, preserve and cover all bases of the existing fiscal conditions in this global ‘temple’ or status quo of a turned upsidedown or bottom up pyramid system where blood, sweat and banknotes flow up to the elite corporate banksters and their puppets.
Soon I warn without question a UK ‘Bail-In’ will happen, attempting to prevent another systemic collapse of the banking system. Without economic growth in this system of finite resources, even with pegged interest rates, we will experience threats of another 2008 crash unless the government makes off with 10%, 20% or more of your virtual savings in the banksters vault.
The rich are getting filthy fat while the comfortable middle are being sucked dry. The poor have no further use to the elite and soulless corporates and are now consigned to working in Pound-land, TKMaxx, McD or Tesco for nothing or working for minimum wage, many with a good qualification or degree.
The women who cared for my mother 2hrs a day no longer, my sister starting to do the job the carer was doing. NHS – peoples lives are hanging by a thread.
We cannot modify this system anymore for our benefit.
Human kind has evolved enough to be able to create a new system. The means to connect us has grown from local gossip to telegrams to mobile phones to WWW and blogs, email, Skype and more
Those who believe me, and I have been very lucky to have experience and knowledge, please spread the message, dawn-to-dark, sunrise to sunset far and wide.
“to try to deflect us from exposing & holding the corrupt politicians to account.”
Like anything is stopping you from typing and pressing the submit comment button.
New book:
Anarchists Against the Wall: Direct Action and Solidarity with the Palestinian Popular Struggle (Anarchist Interventions)
“Part of a small but growing phenomenon in Israel since 2003, Anarchists Against the Wall have been boldly challenging the Segregation Barrier and generalized violence against occupied Palestine. The reflections herein offer a window into some of the most dynamic direct action activism today.”
http://www.amazon.com/Anarchists-Against-Wall-Palestinian-Interventions/dp/1849351147
“Who of your ‘trolls’ has ever expressed support for Zionism? Name, date and quote please.”
Good question.
And to those who are going to tell me I’m ‘naive’ and that trolls are far too ‘subtle’ to do that …
What they don’t do is admit to Israeli human rights abuses. Or used words like “heinous” in relation to Israel’s activities. I have seen plenty of “hasbara trolls” in operation across the net. I don’t believe there is a bunch of them here. Maybe one person, maybe not.
Other people here are paranoid. And some of them are talking about “putting down mad dogs” when they talk about Israelis.
They are no better than the Tea Party, whose preferred method for dealing with all young black offenders is lynching. The hatred comes off the pages of their blogs like waves of filth. And meanwhile they clutch their Bibles and their guns …
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/america-unmasked-the-images-that-reveal-the-ku-klux-klan-is-alive-and-kicking-in-2009-1625732.html
“Like anything is stopping you from typing and pressing the submit comment button2
I think Ben provided a good response;
“the goal of such free speech is a discussion leading to understanding of one another’s position, and thereby leading to a conclusion. When the only intent is to disrupt such discussion, it becomes a game of one-upmanship and name-calling. That’s not the mission statement for this forum.”
“That’s not the mission statement for this forum.”
There is no mission statement for this forum. Nor are there guidelines for comments. Both should be written.
Macky
More than happy to engage in a dialectical discussion when there is one to engage in – I thought that was what I was trying to initiate yesterday regarding the need for such a discussion on the Palestine/Israel conflict. Might I suggest you look at who was seeking to disrupt that discussion if you wish to identify the real trolls.
Some of us would also see free speech as an ends in itself rather than just a means to another end. Your definition of the process also discriminates in favour of sequential and against lateral thinkers.