Ray McGovern and the Sam Adams party have presented the Sam Adams award to Edward Snowden. I am delighted. This from Ray’s account of the event:
In brief remarks from his visitors, Snowden was reassured — first and foremost — that he need no longer be worried that nothing significant would happen as a result of his decision to risk his future by revealing documentary proof that the U.S. government was playing fast and loose with the Constitutional rights of Americans.
Even amid the government shutdown, Establishment Washington and the normally docile “mainstream media” have not been able to deflect attention from the intrusive eavesdropping that makes a mockery of the Fourth Amendment. Even Congress is showing signs of awaking from its torpor.
In the somnolent Senate, a few hardy souls have gone so far as to express displeasure at having been lied to by Director of National Intelligence James Clapper and NSA Director Keith Alexander — Clapper having formally apologized for telling the Senate Intelligence Committee eavesdropping-related things that were, in his words, “clearly erroneous” and Alexander having told now-discredited whoppers about the effectiveness of NSA’s intrusive and unconstitutional methods in combating terrorism.
Coleen Rowley, the first winner of the Sam Adams Award (2002), cited some little-known history to remind Snowden that he is in good company as a whistleblower — and not only because of previous Sam Adams honorees. She noted that in 1773, Benjamin Franklin leaked confidential information by releasing letters written by then-Lt. Governor of Massachusetts Thomas Hutchinson to Thomas Whatley, an assistant to the British Prime Minister.
The letters suggested that it was impossible for the colonists to enjoy the same rights as subjects living in England and that “an abridgement of what are called English liberties” might be necessary. The content of the letters was so damaging to the British government that Benjamin Franklin was dismissed as colonial Postmaster General and had to endure an hour-long censure from British Solicitor General Alexander Wedderburn.
There has been a determined attempt by government to justify the need to intercept everybody’s communications, all the time. We have, yet again, had MI5 claim there are many thousand violent Islamic terrorists running around the UK, (yet somehow not managing to kill anybody). The cry of “paedophiles” is raised, as always. I can imagine them suggesting the entire population be shot dead, and justifying it as making sure they get the paedophiles. The tabloids would go with that.
There still had not been a single credible claim by the mainstream media that any named individual has died, despite that contingency being trotted out all the time as the reason Snowden and Manning should not have revealed state crimes and abuse of power. I am hopeful that, with the internet still largely free to the dissemination of information, out next massive whistleblower is only weeks away.
@ Ben Franklin
“Racism is attractive and hate is sexy. It’s easier to get everyone’s attention with cheap commodities, so why even bother with virtues?”
“Delusion is a poor instructor.”
Etc, etc, etc…..
I’m sure there must be a published collection of your aphorisms (or should I say Christmas cracker mottoes) out there somewhere. Where can I buy it?
*******************
Always look on the bright side of life!
Alzo; Have you considered the effect of racism in Israel, habbakuk?
http://dissidentvoice.org/2013/10/israels-elections-bring-racism-to-the-fore/
‘christmas cracker mottoes’
Sorry. That’s too much culture clash. But you could answer some of my questions as a diversion from your habit.
Now about the thread……
Jives: “When trolls/shills/tag team cyber-boot boys proclaim a liking for Orwell then that’s quite possibly the best definition of irony i’ve ever encountered.”
You can actually view this definition of irony, as the knuckle draggers who run Harry’s Place use Orwell’s “liberty if it means anything…” quote as their Site motto !
Hi Guys.
Sorry for disappearing from the fracking conversation earlier. I had stuff to do in the world.
It was great to have a discussion without all the usual unpleasantness. Thanks.
I was going to lighten up since it’s late and post from Wathafekia, but after seeing that powerful clip from Canada (Thanks Brian. 5 34pm http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmH4irplxqw ) the impulse has fled.
So just a few quick comments.
Jemand.
“Aboriginal people did not all have a happy existence prior to European arrival…”
Surely their lives were as varied in their happiness as our own. Is there any evidence that the lives of Europeans were any happier prior to the conquest of the Americas or Australia? Certainly, post European “Arrival” the lives of most the inhabitants of these places became pretty miserable and short. Have you read “Guns, Germs and Steel” by Jared Diamond?
But that’s not the sort of life you want to live, is it?
This question seems based on assumptions of the “primitiveness” of non European cultures that I don’t understand. What’s primitive about the myriad ways we have evolved to be human and meet our needs around the globe. What’s “primitive” about non-industrial artifacts like the Inuit’s Kayak or the Authentic Austrailian’s oral traditions? The Inuit were in Greenland before Europeans and they witnessed European culture come and go. Do you think it will be any different in Australia?
“Romanticising our primitive ancestory is an indulgence of the modern age.”
Isn’t there a danger that we’re romanticising our technical culture and assuming that it is inevitably the pinnacle of human progress?
“Let’s not kid ourselves about primitive people.” Yes, people of all cultures have trashed their environment and behaved brutishly. But we’ve also lived harmoniously and co-operatively. I don’t believe the multifaceted human species can be reduced to simplistic categories of “primitive” and “advanced.”
As Ben pointed out regarding the First Nations that we Europeans all but wiped out in North America (5 06pm), their attitudes have “…more than respect, there is a reverence for the Earth and it’s systems.” These kind of attitudes could be our salvation but instead, as I write, they are being pepper-sprayed out of the path of our “progress” in Canada.
“… you would have no time for science and philosophy…” WTF? Since when were people unable to learn to a new skill or ask questions?
I’ll finish on a crucial point where we agree, “I want to leave a planet that has its house in order and with the wherwithal for our decendents to explore every explorable avenue of nature and human conciousness.”
Yes so do I, along with people in loin-cloths, skirts, jeans and whatever.
As for the megalomanic creations of our totalitarian industrial era, I reckon it won’t take very long for them to get like
this, Bluffdale too. Thanks Fedup. 11 39pm
Last word to Shelly.
“…Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away”.
I’m off to bed. Goodnight all.
Thanks Sofia for as good a response of one of the most foolsih,shallow and judgemental posts i’ve ever read on t’internet.
Spot on.
Good night ;.)
@ Ben Franklin
“and the source has been cited.”
I don’t think so. You refer to a film by Oliver Stone (not in itself a reliable source) and then say “and one of the facts he uncovered”.
It would be helpful if you would indicate the source of that ‘uncovered fact’.
Another aphorism will not be accepted as a serious reply 🙂
********************
Always look on the bright side of life!
Hab; Just an aside from the snide. You seem to ask a lot of questions but don’t hold yourself accountable for answering questions yourself. Why is this?
OK, this is the best Google could come up with….http://www.gizoogle.net/textilizer.php
Since you may be suttin’ of a literary gent n’ takin tha fuck into account what tha fuck appears ta be yo’ preferred hoopty of discourse on dis Snoop Bloggy-Blogg : dat shiznit was once holla’d by one of mah thugs dat dat shiznit was spittin some lyrics ta of tha difference between Europeans n’ Gangstas dat while tha forma had jokes, tha latter had wisecracks. Would you smoke or disagree wit tha nuff muthafuckin elementz of tha above?
“Have you considered the effect of racism in Israel, habbakuk?”
I’m afraid I’ve been devoting more time to considering the effect of too much weed smoking on the quality of Christmas cracker mottoes, actually.
PS – don’t forget to provide the source (give Oliver a ring if necessary) but no hurry – going out now
“Another aphorism will not be accepted as a serious reply”
Just answer questions with the same passion as you ask of us. Is that too much to ask. you know, reasonable exchange between respectful adults?
@ Ben Franklin
“You seem to ask a lot of questions”
When they arise directly out of people’s comments, certainly. I’m sorry that seems to puzzle and/or upset you.
*********************
Always look on the bright side of life!
“I’m afraid I’ve been devoting more time to considering the effect of too much weed smoking on the quality of Christmas cracker mottoes, actually”
Really. Your disrespect for honest brokers of free speech like Villager is beyond the pale. Don’t you FEEL anything at all? Are you without self-respect? Are you devoid of principles, other than currying favor with those who keep you in shekels? Your usury is typical of bankers who never found a tragedy they couldn’t make hay out of. You are the pig’s head in Goodman’s toilet, replete with the lipstick of dystopia, and the grey-eyed deadness of porcine intellectual retreat.
You are an island to yourself, Habbakuk.
That you cannot compete linguistically with toddlers is the puzzle. Consider smoking weed as a counterpoint.
You have nothing to lose…
BTW; What about your commitment to the subject of the thread?
You really haven’t a clue abut yourself, do you. Ask me. I’ll tell you,
{growing whiskers waiting}
Villager and anyone else who feels the urge to apply some sympathetic tincture to the oppressed Habbakuks of this blog;
Is this asshole worth reaming without some K-Y?
@ Sofia Kibo Noh,
That what is far, might be near, if one cares to look at it closely.
If one doesn’t embrace, one must defend and when confronted, divert, if one cannot bend over backward any further.
Ben: “Just answer questions with the same passion as you ask of us. Is that too much to ask. you know, reasonable exchange between respectful adults?”
You do realise that you are asking the Habbu-Clown to break sacred commandment no.15 of Trollanity;
“15. Avoid answering direct questions. Avoid answering a direct questions that you fear by claiming to not have seen the question then refuse to address it for other reasons. Keep it up along with other tactics until your opponent is distracted from the question”
Our Troll-Clown is also particularly fond of commandments 26 & 34 from the Holy Troll Bible;
26. Attack typos and ignore the content of the message. Point out your opponent’s grammatical flaws and spelling errors. By doing this you can concentrate on form while ignoring substance. This is a very handy method to discredit your opponent and by extension his position, without once again exposing your ignorance of the issues begin discussed in the thread.
34. Use of false identities. Create throw away identities to enter the newsgroup to spread discord and after a few days or weeks, stop using that identity. If you are losing an argument create a new identity to support the position of your main identity. If things are getting slow, create a few identities counter to your primary identity. Start a n-on-1 argument with your primary identity being outnumbered. Then have each of your new identities be convinced by your primary identity to the error of their ways.
Apologies to all of sensitive nature, for the nature of my recent comments. I regret the lack of context wrt my comments as they appear in vitro, but regret more that I was agitated enough to forget my protocols. You see, I am a racist. I admit to the stereotype, which is superficial, but still extant. I put people into cubicles, or categories, for easier filing and retrieval. Based on the zeitgeist, I recognize that this is unacceptable, and for this I apologize; but not for any fucking thing else.
Ben, you have as much change of getting an answer out of the Habbu-Clown Troll as Clark has from the Res Des;
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/10/edward-snowden-gets-sam-adams-award/comment-page-6/#comment-434291
Now, see? It has accomplished the nazgul’s intent, which in retrospect is not different from Sun-Tzu or George Patton, but the disarray within enemy ranks is like gold dust to miners, they love that shit.
There’s the ‘intention’.
To all of good heart and convention; be wise as to your allies.
@ Ben,
Q: Some fishermen have also been hired to help at the nuclear plant by its owner, Tokyo Electric Power Co., or Tepco.
R: Incorrect.
The ‘owner‘ of the Fukushima plant is now Japan’s population. The costs of the whole enchilada are [conservatively] estimated to run into the $$ hundreds of billions. Profits are privatized and costs socialized. The Japanese government took 10% out of everyone’s paycheck to ‘help’ in ‘covering’ the 2011 devastation caused by an earthquake en really horrendous tsunami.
When asked how many people had perished that day, PM Abe advised to look forward, not backward…
Oh, yeah, and we want some more of ‘m F-35s.
@ Sofia Kibo Noh
Et tu, Brute?”
How to Prick right through the Pomposity of Flatulent Hot Air Balloons.
Herr Nevermind blustered at me :
“About as much clue of the ecosytem as your fascist PM, zilch.”
I don’t know what our PM has to do in all of this – I put the Liberals 2nd last on my ballot.
I also think I got your dubious character right some time ago when you first tried that deflective fascist slur on me. Which is funny because sometimes we see you peddle a discredited Stormfront myth about Americans having murdered half a million German POWs. You and StF.Mary are a handsome couple, indeed.
Sofia KN,
I didn’t differentiate non-European and European primitive peoples – you inferred that incorrectly. Your objection to the word “primitive” is an example of political correctness. Our primitive ancestors were in fact “primitive” in the same way that brick-style mobile phones are primitive to todays hand-held supercomputers that, amazingly, have a phone built into them. Primitive – modern – futuristic. What was modern then is primitive now; what is futuristic now will be modern some day. I’m not glorifying technology, simply observing the arrow of culture.
Let me end my side of the discussion on this point – if you admire, respect and envy the lives of our primitive ancestors so much then throw away your clothes, eschew modern appliances, reject modern medical attention and go live in the forest. It’s cold out there, so you’d better be prepared for a hard life. And don’t blame modern, industrial society from preventing you from adopting this lifestyle – you are free to live that way with perhaps a few modern interferences although nothing insurmountable. You are free to choose – what’s your choice?
Re US deployment of nuclear weapons on Japan
Very clearly the reasons for using nuclear weapons were multi-factorial and the Japanese surrender was driven by several imperatives, not least being an avoidance of capitulating to advancing Soviet forces.
One factor for a nuclear strike was the US political agenda to replace the UK as the dominant global superpower. Being the first to use a devastating new weapon gave it a PR advantage – as awful as that seems today. Another, to send a warning to the USSR about their geopolitical ambitions.
But for all the moaning about the terrible loss of life, does it make any difference whether hundreds of thousands of people are incinerated in 10 seconds from a nuclear blast rather than in weeks of incendiary firebombing? Not many talk about the US firebombing missions. Former Defense Sec. Robert McNamara had things to say about that in Errol Morris’ “The Fog of War” doco. And for those Japanese who squawk indignantly of war crimes against their civilian populations, do they have anything to say about what those victims’ fathers, brothers and sons were doing in Nanking a few years earlier?
It’s impossible to say with any certainty how events would have unfolded if nuclear weapons never existed or were never deployed in Japan. But I think it is fair to speculate that the world might have experienced even more devastation from conventional warfare.
Traditional American-style BBQ –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Tokyo
The honorable Japanese race tour of Nanking –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanking_Massacre
From a readers’ comment on a Washington Post blog discussing the fiasco that is the Affordable Care Act’s web site. (AKA Obamacare or the US version of NHS.) Snowden’s real threat is that he reveals the NSA doesn’t have any clothes.
Another gem from Rabbi Ovadia, an errant jew troll working hard to get a waiver on next months rent on his subsidised West Bank apartment, may be tamed with anorexia or a BBC up his kosher !
Hi Grown-ups,
Jives. 12 22am
WoW! Thanks.
Daniel. 12 53am
divert, if one cannot bend over backward any further.
But to where? Seems to me that those who think they own everything just want the rest of us simply to disappear.
Macky. 12 57am
Thanks for giving us a peak into the sacred “Book of Trollanity”
Spot on. More please.
Ben 1 09am
“It has accomplished the nazgul’s intent, which in retrospect is not different from Sun-Tzu or George Patton, but the disarray within enemy ranks is like gold dust to miners, they love that shit.”
Yes, but as every wave of shite passes don’t we all just pop back up?
Jemand. 6 06 am
“ Your objection to the word “primitive” is an example of political correctness.
…Our primitive ancestors were in fact “primitive” in the same way that brick-style mobile phones are primitive to todays hand-held supercomputers…
…I’m not glorifying technology, simply observing the arrow of culture.
Seems more like the dirty-bomb of barbarity tome.
Do you really think having advanced technologies is the opposite of “primitive”?
…then throw away your clothes, eschew modern appliances, reject modern medical attention and go live in the forest.
If only! Haven’t you noticed what happens to the worlds forest dwellers? They are left in peace only so long as some “civilised” thief doesn’t see a way of turning the forest or what lies beneath it into dosh in their Cayman Island accounts. As soon as that happens they are hunted, deliberately infected, buldozed or pepper-sprayedout of the way, along with all their accumulated knowledge, languages and cultural treasure. Any survivors are required to adopt the belief systems and currencies of their abusers.
Might be of interest to some:
‘Wrestling in the Daylight‘ – by Rabbi Brant Rosen
In 2006, Rabbi Brant Rosen, a congregational rabbi from Evanston, Illinois, launched a blog called Shalom Rav, in which he explored a broad range of social-justice issues. The focus of his writing—and his activism—changed dramatically in December 2008, when Israel launched a wide, 23-day military attack against Gaza, causing him to deeply question his lifelong liberal Zionism. Over the two years that followed, Shalom Rav became a public and always highly readable record of his journey from liberal Zionist to active and visionary Palestinian solidarity activist. Wrestling in the Daylight: A Rabbi’s Path to Palestinian Solidarity is Rosen’s self-curated compilation of these blog posts between 2008 and 2010.
@ Jemand,
Have you stood at ground zero of Hiroshima or Nagasaki? A very odd and eerie feeling indeed.
The fire bombing of both Tokyo and Dresden must have been on the minds of those who had to concoct the Nuremberg protocols…