The problem with the Geneva Communique from the first Geneva round on Syria is that the government of Syria never subscribed to it. It was jointly chaired by the League of Arab States for Syria, whatever that may mean. Another problem is that it is, as so many diplomatic documents are, highly ambiguous. It plainly advocates a power sharing executive formed by some of the current government plus the opposition to oversee a transition to democracy. But it does not state which elements of the current government, and it does not mention which elements of the opposition, nor does it make plain if President Assad himself is eligible to be part of, or to head, the power-sharing executive, and whether he is eligible to be a candidate in future democratic elections.
Doubtless the British, for example, would argue that the term transition implies that he will go. The Russians will argue there is no such implication and the text does not exclude anybody from the process. Doubtless also diplomats on all sides were fully aware of these differing interpretations and the ambiguity is quite deliberate to enable an agreed text. I would say that the text tends much more to the “western” side, and that this reflects the apparently weak military position of the Assad regime at that time and the then extant threat of western military intervention. There has been a radical shift in those factors against the western side in the interim. Expect Russian interpretations now to get more hardline.
Given the extreme ambiguity of the text, Iran has, as it frequently does, shot itself in the foot diplomatically by refusing to accept the communique as the basis of talks and thus getting excluded from Geneva. Iran should have accepted the communique, and then at Geneva issued its own interpretation of it.
But that is a minor point. The farcical thing about the Geneva conference is that it is attempting to promote into power-sharing in Syria “opposition” members who have no democratic credentials and represent a scarcely significant portion of those actually fighting the Assad regime in Syria. What the West are trying to achieve is what the CIA and Mossad have now achieved in Egypt; replacing the head of the Mubarak regime while keeping all its power structures in place. The West don’t really want democracy in Syria, they just want a less pro-Russian leader of the power structures.
The inability of the British left to understand the Middle East is pathetic. I recall arguing with commenters on this blog who supported the overthrow of the elected President of Egypt Morsi on the grounds that his overthrow was supporting secularism, judicial independence (missing the entirely obvious fact the Egyptian judiciary are almost all puppets of the military) and would lead to a left wing revolutionary outcome. Similarly the demonstrations against Erdogan in Istanbul, orchestrated by very similar pro-military forces to those now in charge in Egypt, were also hailed by commenters here. The word “secularist” seems to obviate all sins when it comes to the Middle East.
Qatar will be present at Geneva, and Qatar has just launched a pre-emptive media offensive by launching a dossier on torture and murder of detainees by the Assad regime, which is being given first headline treatment by the BBC all morning
There would be a good dossier to be issued on torture in detention in Qatar, and the lives of slave workers there, but that is another question.
I do not doubt at all that atrocities have been committed and are being committed by the Assad regime. It is a very unpleasant regime indeed. The fact that atrocities are also being committed by various rebel groups does not make Syrian government atrocities any better.
But whether 11,000 people really were murdered in a single detainee camp I am unsure. What I do know is that the BBC presentation of today’s report has been a disgrace. The report was commissioned by the government of Qatar who commissioned Carter Ruck to do it. Both those organisations are infamous suppressors of free speech. What is reprehensible is that the BBC are presenting the report as though it were produced by neutral experts, whereas the opposite is the case. It is produced not by anti torture campaigners or by human rights activists, but by lawyers who are doing it purely and simply because they are being paid to do it.
The BBC are showing enormous deference to Sir Desmond De Silva, who is introduced as a former UN war crimes prosecutor. He is indeed that, but it is not the capacity in which he is now acting. He is acting as a barrister in private practice. Before he was a UN prosecutor, he was for decades a criminal defence lawyer and has defended many murderers. He has since acted to suppress the truth being published about many celebrities, including John Terry.
If the Assad regime and not the government of Qatar had instructed him and paid him, he would now be on our screens arguing the opposite case to that he is putting. That is his job. He probably regards that as not reprehensible. What is reprehensible is that the BBC do not make it plain, but introduce him as a UN war crimes prosecutor as though he were acting in that capacity or out of concern for human rights. I can find no evidence of his having an especial love for human rights in the abstract, when he is not being paid for it. He produced an official UK government report into the murder of Pat Finucane, a murder organised by British authorities, which Pat Finucane’s widow described as a “sham”. He was also put in charge of quietly sweeping the Israeli murders on the Gaza flotilla under the carpet at the UN.
The question any decent journalist should be asking him is “Sir Desmond De Silva, how much did the government of Qatar pay you for your part in preparing this report? How much did it pay the other experts? Does your fee from the Government of Qatar include this TV interview, or are you charging separately for your time in giving this interview? In short how much are you being paid to say this?”
That is what any decent journalist would ask. Which is why you will never hear those questions on the BBC.
Incidentally, buggerlugs, since ESLO is a nominally better debater than you, and occasionally addresses the topic under discussion seriously, I think you’d be better leaving the replies to him. Because you really are beginning to look like a sycophantic crawler, as well as a boring troll….
The trolls obviously go off to regroup at a morning meeting with croissants, café au lait and the odd bacon buttie.
“Has anyone noticed there are no late nights for Hab, various Anons, Beeziebug, and Resident anthromorph? Ten pm is the witching hour, and they head to the pub after working hours.”
You’re on EST? The GMT record tells a different story.
Where do you think they hang out Beelzebub?
$82 million worth of Hellfire missiles to Iraq. Are you sure Saddam isn’t still in power hiding in a basement somewhere?
Methinks Agent Cameron speaks with forked tongue. Yesterday it was ‘money no object’ for recovery from the storms and floods.
Today –
The transport secretary said the PM’s pledge that money was “no object” in the relief effort did not amount to a “blank cheque” for tackling floods.
Another YCNMIU.
Hoping that the people living in these areas stay safe. This warning has just been issued.
BREAKING NEWS:Red warning of wind gusts of up to 100 mph for west Wales and north-west England issued by UK Met Office
So much for the Met Office’s long term forecasting. Before Christmas can you remember hearing anything about this prolonged period of storms and floods?
So much too for this hype in 2010.
The Met Office’s £33 million supercomputer that keeps Britain – and the world – turning… Now try complaining about the forecast
7,500,000,000,000,000. That’s the amount of floating-point operations (or calculations) the Met O ffice’s supercomputer makes every minute in its quest to forecast the weather. And what thanks does it get? Live reports on the electronic legacy of empire that keeps Britain – and the world – turning
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1249957/The-Met-Offices-33-million-supercomputer-keeps-Britain–world–turning–Now-try-complaining-forecast.html
They hang out in watercolour holes in the banks of the River Thames in a Beatrix Potter neverworld far from reality.
Beelzebub
“…but Inönü led the delegation at Lausanne….”
_____________________
Acting completely independently of Kemal, if course 🙂 Now who’s the nitpicker?
Re ESLO – don’t worry your derivative little head about him, I’m sure that he’ll let us know if he objects to me intervening . Until then, just keep raving!
Cameron taking PMQ now if anyone is interested.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26150495
21 Pictures Of Politicians In Wellies Staring At Floods
There’s not much that Britain’s politicians can do about the floods. That isn’t stopping them having a look. posted on February 11, 2014
1. Britain is in crisis as floods spread across the nation, bringing the lesser-spotted “Politician In Wellington Boots” out of hibernation.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/pictures-of-politicians-in-wellies-and-staring-at-floods
I disagree that there is nothing they can do about the floods. They talk incessantly.
Where do you think they hang out Beelzebub? (Mary)
Under an e-rock. Or maybe a decaying carcass somewhere. IOW, Israel.
Mary. Great images.
But Bertie Ahern got in there long ago with the deffinitive “great leader sharing the peoples’ woes” flood photo opportunity.
http://www.ppai.ie/photographer/Colin-Keegan/86/
If only he’d stuck to paddling instead of engineering the debt-enslavement of Irish people yet unborn!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2nA2szz8dY
Beelzebub
Incidentally, I don’t know why you call ESLO a “nominally” better debater. He’s an excellent debater and has seen off many an Excellence and useful idiot. You will be no exception.
You don’t debate, buggerlugs. ESLO is nominally better in that he does. Occasionally I can bring myself to agree with him. Though in the exchange into which you have oozed, I don’t. Back under your Negev rock, please.
Sofia Loving the YT Irish Wanking Bankers – An Irishman Abroad – Denis Ryan Shot in Limerick where my father was born. His father brought the family back to England at the time of the Black and Tans whose activities against the Irish people were quite appalling.
Denis Ryan is worthy of Chunky Mark the Taxi Driver.
http://www.youtube.com/user/chunkymark
Re. Irish Butter’s little list (above), it’s perhaps worth amplifying it for non-US readers. This piece examines the curious issue of US-Israeli dual citizenship being freely available to the right people, while dual Mexican-American citizenship is deprecated. Exploring further, the author supplies potted bios of the many in the former class who have achieved influential positions in or around Washington. It’s a little out-of-date, but recommended for reference.
http://www.facebook.com/notes/we-are-all-vittorio-arrigoni/list-of-politicians-with-israeli-dual-citizenship-/175479365845092?_fb_noscript=1
More Chunky Mark, on the floods. Addressing the politicians who are flannelling and evading on his radio. Classic Mark. “YOU DONT FUCKING LISTEN TO FUCKING NO-ONE!!!!”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ba_VACNfHI
Beelzebub
I am not taking a position on whether or not there has been a breach of international law/treaties by the Israeli state in acquiring land from Palestinians for the simple reason that I haven’t seen the legal arguments on either side. If you and Habba wish to provide the details then I have no problem with that. You might also wish to consider whether the Prussians who lost their property in Kaliningrad might also have a valid claim.
I prefer to form my judgements on these matters based on the facts rather than starting with my prejudice and assuming that the facts are bound by definition to fit that prejudice – aka as the John Goss approach.
John
You have still not met my challenge to come up with a legal case put forward by a respected lawyer as to why the Americans should leave Guantanamo – pointing to all the other iniquities which you perceive the USA has carried out is really just avoiding the question. You cannot convict someone just because they have a criminal look on their face.
Mary
The piece you quote (I am presuming in agreement) from Alison Weir really is one of the worst justifications for terrorism I have seen in a long time. Just a pathetic justification for the unjustifiable – don’t you realise that such behaviour is just the excuse others need for continuing the circle of violence. I note that none of the muppets made even the slightest whisper in response to your posting.
ESLO:
I was simply picking you up on a rash statement you made, whose clear implication, if valid, was that Israel had no business changing the pre-existing laws of the land to the detriment of a target community. As it has incontrovertibly done.
I have yet to see a legal case put forward by a respected lawyer justifying, under international law, the expropriation of legally held Palestinian private property by the Israeli state, btw. If that is your criterion for legitimate discussion of an issue, please supply the case.
Department for Work and Pensions ‘put girl in coma’ – now they won’t leave her family alone
Feb 12, 2014 00:00
The Mirror’s Real Britain columnist Ros Wynne-Jones on the private companies being paid to hound people – whatever condition they are in
At Sheila Holt’s home in Rochdale, Lancs, her sister Linda fetches a letter. It’s to Sheila from Seetec, a private company paid a bonus every time it gets someone on benefits into work.
“We hope that all the activities or training intervention completed so far has not only supported you to achieve your aspirations but has moved you closer to the job market,” Linda reads, her eyes filling with tears.
“You will shortly enter the second stage of your Intensive Job-Focussed Activity.”
Sheila, 47, has been in a coma in hospital since December 17, but she is still receiving letters from Atos and Seetec, contracted by the Department for Work and Pensions.
“They’re still hounding Sheila even now,” Linda says.
/..
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/department-work-pensions-put-girl-3135341
More of IDS’s bastardry.
Beelzebub
Your first para does not reflect what I said. There are perfectly valid ways of changing laws apart from ripping them up.
As for Israel “expropriating” property as I have said I don’t know the facts and the arguments but forward by either side and hence I haven’t formed a view or stated a position thereon. Difficult to have any sensible discussion without some facts and hearing both sides of the argument and I most certainly haven’t said that you or others cannot engage in legitimate discussion if you so wish.
“I am not taking a position on whether or not there has been a breach of international law/treaties by the Israeli state in acquiring land from Palestinians for the simple reason that I haven’t seen the legal arguments on either side.”
Israel hasn’t got a legal argument, what they are doing is blatantly illegal. The UN charter is quite clear on the matter, Israel is undoubtedly violating it. Several UNSC resolutions have confirmed this all vetoed by America.
Here’s a list:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html
More from Alison Weir – If Americans Knew – the lady who promotes terrrrrrism according to the troll above. Who are the real terrrrrrrists then?
Statistics Last Updated: October 17, 2013
Israeli and Palestinian Children Killed
September 29, 2000 – Present
129 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,519 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)
Chart showing that approximately 12 times more Palestinian children have been killed than Israeli children
Israelis and Palestinians Killed
September 29, 2000 – Present
Chart showing that 6 times more Palestinians have been killed than Israelis.
1,104 Israelis and at least 6,836 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information)
Israelis and Palestinians Injured
September 29, 2000 – Present
9,104 Israelis and 50,742 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000. (View Sources & More Information.)
Chart showing that Palestinians are injured at least four times more often than Israelis.
Daily U.S. Military Aid to Israel and the Palestinians
Fiscal Year 2013
Chart showing that the United States gives Israel $8.2 million per day in military aid and no military aid to the Palestinians.
During Fiscal Year 2013, the U.S. is providing Israel with at least $8.5 million per day in military aid and $0 in military aid to the Palestinians. (View Sources & More Information)
UN Resolutions Targeting Israel and the Palestinians
1955 – 1992
Israel has been targeted by at least 77 UN resolutions and the Palestinians have been targeted by 1. (View Sources & More Information)
Current Number of Political Prisoners and Detainees
Chart showing that Israel is holding 5,604 Palestinians prisoner.
0 Israelis are being held prisoner by Palestinians, while 5,007 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel. (View Sources & More Information)
Demolitions of Israeli and Palestinian Homes
1967 – Present
0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and at least 27,000 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since 1967. (View Sources & More Information
Israeli and Palestinian Unemployment Rates
Chart depicting the fact that the Palestinian unemployment is around 4 times the Israeli unemployment rate.
The Israeli unemployment rate is 6.9%, while the Palestinian unemployment in the West Bank is 22.6% and 27.9% in Gaza. (View Sources & More Information)
Current Illegal Settlements on the Other’s Land
Israel currently has 260 Jewish-only settlements and ‘outposts’ built on confiscated Palestinian land. Palestinians do not have any settlements on Israeli land.
http://ifamericansknew.org/
More statistics are available if needed.
Eslo. Fair point, but really! It’s all systematic and reactionary.
Being the intelligent it must be hard to lead by example.
http://antisubjugator.blogspot.com.au
Fred
I think what we are talking about is Israel taking land from Palestinian settlers within its 1948 boundaries – which does not appear to be the subject of the resolutions to which you refer. There is no doubt that Israel has committed other breaches of international law – as have the various Palestinian authorities.
Mary
You can cut and paste until you are blue in the face it still doesn’t justify killing Israeli atheletes. You also cannot read, I accused Weir of justifying terrorism not promoting it.
There is something in what Jay says. It’s tempting to associate ESLO with Buggerlugs, as they go for the same posters, and sing in harmony. But if ESLO is uninterested in the ongoing Israel commentary – which is a recurring feature of these comments – then I am happy to avoid discussing it with him.
There is the nub of the Israeli problem in what Fred says. If you are going to deplore tearing up international law, then at least do it consistently. If the occupation of Guantanamo is regarded as being legitimate under the international law, then Israel, and everyone else, should be held to their own obligations under international law. If, on the other hand, Guantanamo is illegitimate because the treaty was imposed by force, then it could be argued that Palestine should not have been annexed from the Ottoman empire.
It will need good lawyers on both sides, and I haven’t seen a case from either.
Meanwhile, on hunger strike –
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/12/us/appeals-court-clears-way-for-guantanamo-challenges.html?_r=0
ESLO
“Beelzebub
I am not taking a position on whether or not there has been a breach of international law/treaties by the Israeli state in acquiring land from Palestinians for the simple reason that I haven’t seen the legal arguments on either side. If you and Habba wish to provide the details then I have no problem with that.”
_______________________
Thanks for your post! No, I’ve no wish to provide details because as far as I know I haven’t offered a view on that particular question. I was talking about the base at Guantanamo, on which there was a full exchange about a year ago and which Mr Goss appears keen to resurrect (I think he saw the word “Castro” in another post of mine and that got him hot under the collar).
Mind you, were there to be a debate between the Eminences and someone else on Palestinian/Israeli rights I have no doubt that the international law arguments which certain Eminences would bring forward would not be of higher quality than those advanced at the time (and now) on the matter of Guantanamo…. But I think you know that already, somehow 🙂
More from the mentalists. Terrrrrrrists everywhere.
Israel Starts New Propaganda War To Beat Boycott
By Catherine Philp
February 11, 2014 “Information Clearing House – “The Times” – ISRAELI spies have been ordered to dig up intelligence showing that supporters of an economic boycott are linked to terrorists and enemy states.
The strategy was presented at a ministerial meeting called to discuss how to respond to the growing number of foreign companies refusing to do business with Israeli entities operating in Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank. They are considered illegal under international law.
At the meeting Yuval Steinitz, the Minister for Intelligence and Strategy, outlined a plan for a media blitz against organisations advocating boycotts. His strategy includes intelligence agencies working to expose “their connection to terror organisations and enemy states”, the Hebrew-language newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth reported.
/..
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37610.htm