The problem with the Geneva Communique from the first Geneva round on Syria is that the government of Syria never subscribed to it. It was jointly chaired by the League of Arab States for Syria, whatever that may mean. Another problem is that it is, as so many diplomatic documents are, highly ambiguous. It plainly advocates a power sharing executive formed by some of the current government plus the opposition to oversee a transition to democracy. But it does not state which elements of the current government, and it does not mention which elements of the opposition, nor does it make plain if President Assad himself is eligible to be part of, or to head, the power-sharing executive, and whether he is eligible to be a candidate in future democratic elections.
Doubtless the British, for example, would argue that the term transition implies that he will go. The Russians will argue there is no such implication and the text does not exclude anybody from the process. Doubtless also diplomats on all sides were fully aware of these differing interpretations and the ambiguity is quite deliberate to enable an agreed text. I would say that the text tends much more to the “western” side, and that this reflects the apparently weak military position of the Assad regime at that time and the then extant threat of western military intervention. There has been a radical shift in those factors against the western side in the interim. Expect Russian interpretations now to get more hardline.
Given the extreme ambiguity of the text, Iran has, as it frequently does, shot itself in the foot diplomatically by refusing to accept the communique as the basis of talks and thus getting excluded from Geneva. Iran should have accepted the communique, and then at Geneva issued its own interpretation of it.
But that is a minor point. The farcical thing about the Geneva conference is that it is attempting to promote into power-sharing in Syria “opposition” members who have no democratic credentials and represent a scarcely significant portion of those actually fighting the Assad regime in Syria. What the West are trying to achieve is what the CIA and Mossad have now achieved in Egypt; replacing the head of the Mubarak regime while keeping all its power structures in place. The West don’t really want democracy in Syria, they just want a less pro-Russian leader of the power structures.
The inability of the British left to understand the Middle East is pathetic. I recall arguing with commenters on this blog who supported the overthrow of the elected President of Egypt Morsi on the grounds that his overthrow was supporting secularism, judicial independence (missing the entirely obvious fact the Egyptian judiciary are almost all puppets of the military) and would lead to a left wing revolutionary outcome. Similarly the demonstrations against Erdogan in Istanbul, orchestrated by very similar pro-military forces to those now in charge in Egypt, were also hailed by commenters here. The word “secularist” seems to obviate all sins when it comes to the Middle East.
Qatar will be present at Geneva, and Qatar has just launched a pre-emptive media offensive by launching a dossier on torture and murder of detainees by the Assad regime, which is being given first headline treatment by the BBC all morning
There would be a good dossier to be issued on torture in detention in Qatar, and the lives of slave workers there, but that is another question.
I do not doubt at all that atrocities have been committed and are being committed by the Assad regime. It is a very unpleasant regime indeed. The fact that atrocities are also being committed by various rebel groups does not make Syrian government atrocities any better.
But whether 11,000 people really were murdered in a single detainee camp I am unsure. What I do know is that the BBC presentation of today’s report has been a disgrace. The report was commissioned by the government of Qatar who commissioned Carter Ruck to do it. Both those organisations are infamous suppressors of free speech. What is reprehensible is that the BBC are presenting the report as though it were produced by neutral experts, whereas the opposite is the case. It is produced not by anti torture campaigners or by human rights activists, but by lawyers who are doing it purely and simply because they are being paid to do it.
The BBC are showing enormous deference to Sir Desmond De Silva, who is introduced as a former UN war crimes prosecutor. He is indeed that, but it is not the capacity in which he is now acting. He is acting as a barrister in private practice. Before he was a UN prosecutor, he was for decades a criminal defence lawyer and has defended many murderers. He has since acted to suppress the truth being published about many celebrities, including John Terry.
If the Assad regime and not the government of Qatar had instructed him and paid him, he would now be on our screens arguing the opposite case to that he is putting. That is his job. He probably regards that as not reprehensible. What is reprehensible is that the BBC do not make it plain, but introduce him as a UN war crimes prosecutor as though he were acting in that capacity or out of concern for human rights. I can find no evidence of his having an especial love for human rights in the abstract, when he is not being paid for it. He produced an official UK government report into the murder of Pat Finucane, a murder organised by British authorities, which Pat Finucane’s widow described as a “sham”. He was also put in charge of quietly sweeping the Israeli murders on the Gaza flotilla under the carpet at the UN.
The question any decent journalist should be asking him is “Sir Desmond De Silva, how much did the government of Qatar pay you for your part in preparing this report? How much did it pay the other experts? Does your fee from the Government of Qatar include this TV interview, or are you charging separately for your time in giving this interview? In short how much are you being paid to say this?”
That is what any decent journalist would ask. Which is why you will never hear those questions on the BBC.
Beelzebub
“You don’t debate, buggerlugs.”
___________________
Not in the sense in which you and the Eminences understand the notion of debating, no. What is called “debate” on here mostly consists in Mr Goss, Fujisan, Mary, A Node, Clark and sundry others patting each other on the back for their latest squibs and cut-and-pastes (“Great post, Mary!”; “Thanks for the link, John!”…etc, etc). Or then, hurling insults at people who disagree with the pensée unique (you yourself are learning fast there – congratulations and you’ll soon be a candidate member of the Egregiousness of Excellences if you don’t run out of puff).
PS – would you mind if Buggerlugs called you Beaballsub?
Nobody here justifies any killing of israeli or any other athletes, eslo, and we are not speaking for the German/Israeli Government, but for ourselfs. Withing that context we can argue both ways. The gholan heights were not part of Palestine or Jordan, they are Syrian.
It is a fact that the UN does not recognise countries as states if they have no declared borders. You feel very warm when it comes to the laws justifying Israeli settlements, but what of the Arab community, the displacement of Berbers and the attrocious behaviour towards African immigrants, Apartheid laws that favour Israeli sttlers and apoartment holders, because they’belong’ to Israel?
regardl;ess of whether they are from deepest Russia, Bulgaria, the USA Germany or otherwise, people with no hiostory in Palestine apart from a fable pointing to it, a fable that claims things which are not true or proven.
I find your selectivity when it comes to the laws for humans living in Palestine quiet nauseating, especially when it brings back the bodies of British soldiers who died, trying to persuade the zionists that keeping to the UN/Balfour declaration would be a good idea, then.
People like Ariel Sharon shot them and have shot people for trying to live in their homeland ever since, justifyable by no law.
Thanks for the mornings links and last nights debate.
Buggerlugs is getting as prolific, and considerably less interesting, than Mary. It seems to be saying “me-me-me-me” all the time now. Time for a break, bug. Why not wander down to the fence and shoot a Palestinian?
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ZtseAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mUYEAAAAIBAJ&pg=5192,1422119&hl=en
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Israeli_air_raid_in_Syria_and_Lebanon
ESLO, 1:35; who is encouraging the continuation of the cycle of violence? Mary? Alison Weir? Or you and the forces you support, maybe?
Shilling trolls can still swim like voles , even if they are dressed up in frills like humans.
I wiah there could be an end to it but in my heart of hearts know that it is unlikely until the Palestinians have their land and homes restored to them and are given the right of return. It will never happen.
http://cdn.timesofisrael.com/uploads/2013/09/F130512ARK04-e1380577728349-635×357.jpg
http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2009/04/01/world/middleeast/02lede_archipelago.480.jpg
I’d like to encourage more contributors on this blog to become Wikipedia editors. I found that newspaper article by again looking for deletions on the Wikipedia article’s History record. It had been removed; I restored it. That page is highly contested, as are many others.
I’d say that was an important piece of history, the second ever use of the UN Security Council Veto. It’s all very well battling it out here, but blog comments are crap as reference sources because they’re very difficult to search for specific information.
NB: If you do edit Wikipedia, be careful to follow Wikipedia’s rules, as doing so demonstrates that you value accuracy above propaganda.
“You feel very warm when it comes to the laws justifying Israeli settlements”
Where? Your statement is just not true I don’t support the illegal Israeli settlements. This is just the standard if you are not with us you are against us mentality coming to the fore and twisting things.
“It is a fact that the UN does not recognise countries as states if they have no declared borders.”
But it clearly does recognise Israel – it just doesn’t recognise the Occupied Territories (incl the Golan Heights) as belonging to Israel.
“I find your selectivity when it comes to the laws for humans living in Palestine quiet nauseating,”
Again just not true – if anyone is being selective in the application of law and human rights it is you and your friends. Please find some examples of where I have said Palestinians and Israelis should be treated differently – otherwise you should apologise. Palestinians, especially those in Gaza, are frequently the victims of great injustice – just as smaller numbers of Israelis suffer injustices as well – what really matters however is not big howls of righteous indignation but doing something that is practical and achievable – something which most here haven’t got a clue about whatsoever.
“Nobody here justifies any killing of israeli or any other athletes, eslo,” No they just cut and paste articles providing such justification – but don’t have the courage to say so themselves – and then others just take what is said as acceptable and don’t bother to challenge,
NB: If you do edit Wikipedia, be careful to follow Wikipedia’s rules, as doing so demonstrates that you value accuracy above propaganda.
Made me smile!
“ESLO, 1:35; who is encouraging the continuation of the cycle of violence? Mary? Alison Weir? Or you and the forces you support, maybe?”
And which forces do I support? Where did I justify the violence in retaliation to the terrorist attack? Could we have some accuracy rather than propaganda please.
I bet CameraOn and Hague are getting the wind up about these terrorists coming home. Any plans for boots on the ground or no fly zones? Probably not.
UK suicide bomber in Syria named as Abdul Waheed Majid
Anti-terror police search the house in Langley Green, Crawley South East Counter Terrorism Unit Police are searching the house in Langley Green in Crawley, West Sussex
A British man thought to have carried out a suicide bombing in Syria last week was Abdul Waheed Majid, the BBC has learned.
The 41-year-old, from Crawley in West Sussex, is believed to have carried out a suicide truck bombing in the city of Aleppo last Thursday.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26156533
ESLO, you know exactly what you’re doing and why you’re doing it. You accused Alison Weir of “justifying terrorism” for putting the Munich atrocity in context. I just showed you an example of George Bush doing exactly the same thing, but with the force of the UNSC Veto to back him up.
When people here criticise the US-UK-Israeli-ME-Monarchy alliance, you always say that they should criticise Russia or China etc. instead.
You’re trying to suppress criticism of the US-UK-Israeli-ME-Monarchy power bloc by attempting to discredit those who criticise it.
yes eslo, thats how it feels and I do something about it, its called BDS.
If anybody buys Israeli made goods in our house, incl. moire, they will be castigated and shown up for it, then it gets taken back or binned. My veg supplier knows that I will not buy anything from that rogue state, he will point it out that the Navel Oranges traded through Greece are not Greek.
Providing links to people justifying attacking Israeli athletes does not mean we all approve or even read ti, I surely do not. But I also know the collaborative slow effort provided by the CSU run Bavarian state of that time, despicable. But these murders are no different to the murders on the Mavi Marmara, so there is a learning process, but you have to take that up with the Israeli Government.
Why are we talking of Munich? who raised this? Is it because we want to taint the successfull Sochi Olympics currently on show?
You’re trying to suppress criticism of the US-UK-Israeli-ME-Monarchy power bloc by attempting to discredit those who criticise it.
No I am trying to get people to recognise that they do not have a monopoly on wrong doing and that the crimes of democracies are often but not always less than those of totalitarian regimes.
And how exactly would I be able to suppress any criticism by pointing out other perspectives. You are battered into submission by my overpowering logic? I should note that those who are subject to most abuse here are those who contest the prevailing ethos – not that we are not able to respond in kind when necessary.
You are again imputing motives without any knowledge. Not a good or smart thing to do. You could call me a shill or suggest I live in Tel Aviv if that will make you feel better.
I have the greatest admiration for Alison Weir. She is feisty and demands justice for the Palestinians. She must have a terrible time of it from the lobby in America.
http://i0.wp.com/www.intifada-palestine.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Alison-Weir.jpg
A fair summary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alison_Weir_(journalist)
Why are we talking of Munich? who raised this?
Mary
Is it because we want to taint the successfull Sochi Olympics currently on show?
Yep spend $58bn – of which an estimated half ends up in foreign bank accounts as backhanders and get your mistress to light the flame. Yes highly successful for some Russians.
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/oct/09/sochi-2014-olympics-money-corruption
Where has all the money from the most expensive Olympics ever gone??
The Washington Post raised the subject Nevermind.
The Washington Post has published a moving article, “Russian Jews remember Israeli athletes murdered at 1972 Munich Olympic Games.” Unfortunately, it gets a few things wrong and provides a one-sided context for the tragedy……
February 9th 2014
Russian Jews remember Israeli athletes murdered at 1972 Munich Olympic Games
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russian-jews-remember-israeli-athletes-murdered-at-1972-munich-olympic-games/2014/02/09/
Also Haaretz http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/jewish-world-features/1.573402 and The Jerusalem Post. It’s 42 years ago.
WP now owned by Bezos, the Amazon owner.
“Yep spend $58bn – of which an estimated half ends up in foreign bank accounts as backhanders and get your mistress to light the flame. Yes highly successful for some Russians.”
And you would know this, off course, but it is as unsubstatiated than many other claims you provide. Clark is right, you know exactly what and why you are doing what you do, confuse and abuse.
But I’m no false saint and don’t want to be associated with them either, I make mistakes, hence I must be human.
The more the trolls say, the more is revealed.
And all the stuff about seeing the other side of the occupation is just phooey.
ESLO, well maybe I have your motives wrong, but despite claiming to be of the Left you ally with the Right-wing authoritarian Habbabkuk who certainly is trying to bully contributors to prevent them contributing here, by subjecting them to a continuous stream of insults and denigration.
Yes, I know, and regret, that contributors also insult Habbabkuk, but that is retaliatory; it is gleefully driven by Habbabkuk. If Habbabkuk were gone or were to improve his/her behaviour, this comment section would return to its former state of good-natured conversation.
Many contributors here object to the actions of “our side”, that which I have called the “US-UK-Israeli-ME-Monarchy power bloc”. The point of doing so, here on a UK blog of a former UK Ambassador, is to put pressure upon “our own side”; it’s to use our efforts where it will have most influence – Russia or China have no reason to be influenced us. You consistently object to our efforts, thus (possibly inadvertently) supporting the dominant narrative of the “Western” governments and the “Western” corporate media. I think the dominant narrative has too much support already, but apparently this doesn’t trouble you.
And no, I don’t think you’re in Tel Aviv. I’m in Essex, UK; where are you?
Thanks mary thought as much, some dirty and excacting minds behind it, raising the sceptor of terrorism just because their slaves are listening and ensure that the message gets into the news here.
Munich has got nothing to do with the Olympics today and I think that Sochi is better protected today than Munich ever was.
And I don’t mean by the forlorn coast guard ship in the harbour.
“but it is as unsubstatiated than many other claims you provide.”
Read the Guardian link I provided.
“And all the stuff about seeing the other side of the occupation is just phooey.”
More mind reading – perhaps I should start commenting on your own motivations since it is now open season on my own?
Note that the cost of Sochi is quoted in US dollars at 4.24pm. Telling as to location? Here we think of it as £30 billion as heard on BBC news and the like. When dollars are quoted, as here by Rosenberg in Moscow, $50billion is the figure not $58billion.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26062757
Beaballsub
“Why not wander down to the fence and shoot a Palestinian?”
______________________
If I thought you’d have the balls to put your body in the way, I might. 🙂
PS – btw, I haven’t yet heard you on whether you think Israel has the right to exist.
“The Washington Post raised the subject Nevermind.”
Not on this board, it didn’t.
Beware the Polish spam bot from ‘Terri’. I did not click on. I hovered.
Don’t know if this has been discussed but Greenwalds collaborative venture has been launched.
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2014/02/10/welcome-intercept/
I should think they would have opened with a barn-burner. Maybe Craig or Jon could add or update his blogroll.
What ESLO says is well worth repeating, viz
“Nobody here justifies any killing of israeli or any other athletes, eslo,” No they just cut and paste articles providing such justification – but don’t have the courage to say so themselves – and then others just take what is said as acceptable and don’t bother to challenge,”
___________
So true. I recall challenging what appeared in several of the Resident Denigrator’s cut-and-pastes and each time she answered “I didn’t say that, it was x, or y”. Gutless.
The others don’t challenge that sort of garbage because they’re “in the spirit of the blog” and part of “the community”.
“ESLO, well maybe I have your motives wrong”
I’m sure I remember Craig himself asking people NOT to speculate on people’s motives for posting here. Or where they were – or whether they were ‘trolls’ or not. He specifically asked people to stick to the subject matter of their posts and deal with that ONLY.