The problem with the Geneva Communique from the first Geneva round on Syria is that the government of Syria never subscribed to it. It was jointly chaired by the League of Arab States for Syria, whatever that may mean. Another problem is that it is, as so many diplomatic documents are, highly ambiguous. It plainly advocates a power sharing executive formed by some of the current government plus the opposition to oversee a transition to democracy. But it does not state which elements of the current government, and it does not mention which elements of the opposition, nor does it make plain if President Assad himself is eligible to be part of, or to head, the power-sharing executive, and whether he is eligible to be a candidate in future democratic elections.
Doubtless the British, for example, would argue that the term transition implies that he will go. The Russians will argue there is no such implication and the text does not exclude anybody from the process. Doubtless also diplomats on all sides were fully aware of these differing interpretations and the ambiguity is quite deliberate to enable an agreed text. I would say that the text tends much more to the “western” side, and that this reflects the apparently weak military position of the Assad regime at that time and the then extant threat of western military intervention. There has been a radical shift in those factors against the western side in the interim. Expect Russian interpretations now to get more hardline.
Given the extreme ambiguity of the text, Iran has, as it frequently does, shot itself in the foot diplomatically by refusing to accept the communique as the basis of talks and thus getting excluded from Geneva. Iran should have accepted the communique, and then at Geneva issued its own interpretation of it.
But that is a minor point. The farcical thing about the Geneva conference is that it is attempting to promote into power-sharing in Syria “opposition” members who have no democratic credentials and represent a scarcely significant portion of those actually fighting the Assad regime in Syria. What the West are trying to achieve is what the CIA and Mossad have now achieved in Egypt; replacing the head of the Mubarak regime while keeping all its power structures in place. The West don’t really want democracy in Syria, they just want a less pro-Russian leader of the power structures.
The inability of the British left to understand the Middle East is pathetic. I recall arguing with commenters on this blog who supported the overthrow of the elected President of Egypt Morsi on the grounds that his overthrow was supporting secularism, judicial independence (missing the entirely obvious fact the Egyptian judiciary are almost all puppets of the military) and would lead to a left wing revolutionary outcome. Similarly the demonstrations against Erdogan in Istanbul, orchestrated by very similar pro-military forces to those now in charge in Egypt, were also hailed by commenters here. The word “secularist” seems to obviate all sins when it comes to the Middle East.
Qatar will be present at Geneva, and Qatar has just launched a pre-emptive media offensive by launching a dossier on torture and murder of detainees by the Assad regime, which is being given first headline treatment by the BBC all morning
There would be a good dossier to be issued on torture in detention in Qatar, and the lives of slave workers there, but that is another question.
I do not doubt at all that atrocities have been committed and are being committed by the Assad regime. It is a very unpleasant regime indeed. The fact that atrocities are also being committed by various rebel groups does not make Syrian government atrocities any better.
But whether 11,000 people really were murdered in a single detainee camp I am unsure. What I do know is that the BBC presentation of today’s report has been a disgrace. The report was commissioned by the government of Qatar who commissioned Carter Ruck to do it. Both those organisations are infamous suppressors of free speech. What is reprehensible is that the BBC are presenting the report as though it were produced by neutral experts, whereas the opposite is the case. It is produced not by anti torture campaigners or by human rights activists, but by lawyers who are doing it purely and simply because they are being paid to do it.
The BBC are showing enormous deference to Sir Desmond De Silva, who is introduced as a former UN war crimes prosecutor. He is indeed that, but it is not the capacity in which he is now acting. He is acting as a barrister in private practice. Before he was a UN prosecutor, he was for decades a criminal defence lawyer and has defended many murderers. He has since acted to suppress the truth being published about many celebrities, including John Terry.
If the Assad regime and not the government of Qatar had instructed him and paid him, he would now be on our screens arguing the opposite case to that he is putting. That is his job. He probably regards that as not reprehensible. What is reprehensible is that the BBC do not make it plain, but introduce him as a UN war crimes prosecutor as though he were acting in that capacity or out of concern for human rights. I can find no evidence of his having an especial love for human rights in the abstract, when he is not being paid for it. He produced an official UK government report into the murder of Pat Finucane, a murder organised by British authorities, which Pat Finucane’s widow described as a “sham”. He was also put in charge of quietly sweeping the Israeli murders on the Gaza flotilla under the carpet at the UN.
The question any decent journalist should be asking him is “Sir Desmond De Silva, how much did the government of Qatar pay you for your part in preparing this report? How much did it pay the other experts? Does your fee from the Government of Qatar include this TV interview, or are you charging separately for your time in giving this interview? In short how much are you being paid to say this?”
That is what any decent journalist would ask. Which is why you will never hear those questions on the BBC.
I have to go soon. I mention this to avoid gloating that I may feel defeated in argument. Such precautions haven’t always been necessary here.
“What does it take before you’ll protest, ESLO? Actual gas chambers?”
There are stories, denied by many, about a large number of guillotines (varying between 40,000 and 100,000) having been shipped to the US. How true this is I don’t know, and have an open mind. I suspect it is untrue. But when you look at how the US is disturbing weather-patterns with HAARP, gathering data on everybody through the NSA and killing people indiscriminately without trial or conscience, anything is possible.
It’s a good job that the storm has not affected London as it has done in Manchester. Johnson has closed 10 fire stations and sacked personnel.
BREAKING NEWS:Greater Manchester Fire have tweeted all officers off work to come in if they can: they have 40 live calls currently
The ConDem cutz to our infrastructure will come to haunt them.
“….that particular holocaust was not within living memory of most people. What is not just within living memory but is ongoing are the terrible camps at Guantanamo and Bagram where prisoners have been tortured and killed by the US.”
________________________
Whether deliberately or not, the effect of the above words of yours is to establish an equivalence between Guantanamo/Bagram and the Nazi concentration camps. Even you would not, I imagine, claim that they are equivalent in scale: in which case, do you really believe they are equivalent in intention and purpose?
ESLO; “pet regimes” – this is the sort of language I deplore; it encourages polarisation. I strongly suspect that Mary supports the people of Gaza rather than the Hamas government there. But it should also be possible, here on this blog, to expose anti-Hamas propaganda without being denigrated with accusations of supporting of repression.
Mary, I’d be interested to hear your opinions on Hamas in Gaza.
“There are stories, denied by many, about a large number of guillotines (varying between 40,000 and 100,000) having been shipped to the US. How true this is I don’t know, and have an open mind. I suspect it is untrue. But when you look..etc”
_________________
Nice technique, Mr Goss.
You start off by peddling something detrimental to the USA (at least, I assume that was your purpose)…..and then, as if suddenly made aware of how ludicrous the story is, you cover your ass by saying you “suspect” it is untrue.
BTW – I have heard a story that numerous original guillotines have been vanishing from museums all over France. But I have an open mind on this and suspect the story may be untrue.
Clark
“Mary, I’d be interested to hear your opinions on Hamas in Gaza.”
______________________
Pigs will fly and Mary’s cocks will suddenly start laying eggs before you get her opinion on that. I’ve a fiver on it if you’re game.
“….that particular holocaust was not within living memory of most people. What is not just within living memory but is ongoing are the terrible camps at Guantanamo and Bagram where prisoners have been tortured and killed by the US.”
________________________
Whether deliberately or not, the effect of the above words of yours is to establish an equivalence between Guantanamo/Bagram and the Nazi concentration camps. Even you would not, I imagine, claim that they are equivalent in scale: in which case, do you really believe they are equivalent in intention and purpose?
The scale does not matter to the person being tortured and killed. I believe none of these terrible camps should ever have been built. This is happening today and there should be voices raised against such camps. Ihaven’t seen your voice raised against them Habbabkuk. In fact quite the opposite. You think they are quite legal.
Hamas was democratically elected with a much bigger and far greater majority than any party in this country, eslo, that does not mean I AGREE WITH THEM, or their attrocities. But it does mean that they are politically as legitamite to say the least, than anything here in this country. This despite millions of funding for a massive Fatah campaign, relentless and for weeks, do you understand what such support means?
If not ask Harry Fear.
If you believe that your own Government is far removed from same attrocities then its you who is living under some illusion, what do you think happened in Gibraltar? what do you think would happen to you should you so much try and change the system here? how naive. I’m sure Mark G can also remember a few cruel moments in the past.
“I think what we are talking about is Israel taking land from Palestinian settlers within its 1948 boundaries – which does not appear to be the subject of the resolutions to which you refer.”
That certainly isn’t what the article Beelzebub posted a link to was referring to, it was specifically about the West Bank as it said in the title. The West Bank is not, and never has been Israeli territory, it is classed as occupied territory.
So if you look again you will see several of the resolutions are relevant.
Mr Goss
Nice technique again, John.
Instead of answering my question, you say (in effect) that nobody likes getting tortured and killed, then go on to say that neither Guantanamo/Bagram nor the Nazi concentration camps should have been built, and end by turning the discussion to myself.
I therefore ask you again : do you believe that Guantanamo/Bagram and the Nazi concentration camps are equivalent in intention and purpose?
(I ask because putting them both into your previous post has the effect of creating an equivalence).
Make your own mind up Habby.
http://somehelpful.info/Articles/20131103-guillotines-in-US.htm
“Where? Your statement is just not true I don’t support the illegal Israeli settlements. This is just the standard if you are not with us you are against us mentality coming to the fore and twisting things. ”
As there are no legal Israeli settlements this must man you don’t support any Israeli settlements.
You’re wrong Habby. I did answer your question. Now answer mine. Do you believe it is legal to imprison, torture and kill people in Guantanamo and Bagram?
“You’re wrong Habby. I did answer your question.”
___________________
Can you quote me the words of your answer to my question, please?
The question was :
“do you believe that Guantanamo/Bagram and the Nazi concentration camps are equivalent in intention and purpose?”
Your answer?
John Friendly advice. Don’t waste your valuable energies. They only want to tie people in knots. If they don’t get responses they are then talking to themselves and filling the blog.
Fred
“The West Bank is not, and never has been Israeli territory”
_________________
No indeed; until 1967 it was administered by Jordan and for all practical purposes was part of Jordan.
You’re obviously an expert on the position, Freddie : so tell us why Jordan did not create a state of Palestine on the West Bank territories it was “administering”? Would have saved a lot of trouble!
These problems in Ireland today did not get a mention on the BBC News. They are supposed to be neighbours.
260,000 Without Power In Ireland As Storm Hits
Hurricane-force winds have left more than a quarter of a million customers without power in Ireland.
http://news.sky.com/story/1210611/260000-customers-without-power-in-ireland
Mary
Talking about not answering : are you going to respond to Clark’s invitation to you? I think you should. Clark believes in debate, he is broadly sympathetic to your views and he is not a troll in your book. So – provided you are truly interested in dialogue and discussion – there is no conceivable reason why you should decline his invitation.
Just to remind you, his invitation to you was as follows:
“Mary, I’d be interested to hear your opinions on Hamas in Gaza.”
“Why the Rise in Police Brutality? Interview: Paul Criag Roberts”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7lgXc2coAs
“You’re obviously an expert on the position, Freddie : so tell us why Jordan did not create a state of Palestine on the West Bank territories it was “administering”? Would have saved a lot of trouble!”
They didn’t have the authority. States can’t just be created without the consent of the international community.
Clark I had not seen your question. Yes I do support the people of Gaza and have friends there whose lives are unbearable under the Israeli siege/blockade. No port. Nor airport. No way of exporting any goods they can produce etc etc,
They are as Palestinian as those living in the ‘West Bank’. They democratically elected Hamas whereas the PA in Ramallah are stooges of the USUKIs axis. Abbas’s mandate expired a long time back.
The German KZ concentration camps were established as forced Labour Camps. No doubt many deaths happened there to all the different peoples that were concentrated there.However , looking into the causes of death is illegal in many countries.The ones with the bullet holes in their heads did not die from gas, starvation or disease.
Guantanamo Bagram and the others including places in Syria, Libya, Poland Romania were established for information gleaning, torture in other words.Death was for sure a result many times.
The Regime behind such foul methods is every bit as evil as the Gestapo system.So in your words Habbakuk, equivalent.Genocides against foreign peoples is perhaps not their aim, but their aim is very similar to the Nazi aim.In fact many Nazi’s built the US system up from the ground.So many parallels. Too many !
You’re wrong Habby. I did answer your question.
The scale to anyone being tortured is the same. It is evil. There have not been as many murdered or tortured as there were in the Nazi camps yet. But these, Guantanamo and Bagram, are still open.
Now kindly answer mine. Do you believe it is legal to imprison, torture and kill people in Guantanamo and Bagram?
The poor man. What an awful terrible day.
Breaking News A man thought to be in his 70s has been killed at Bremhill near Calne while trying to remove a tree which had brought down power cables, say Wiltshire Police. They say he is believed to have been electrocuted.
Northern Powergrid says there are 10,000 homes without power across the north of England – and they expect the number to rise during the night.
Met Office Storms Wind gusts over 100 mph recorded in four consecutive hours at Aberdaron this afternoon. Highest gust in last hour 85 mph.
Strongest winds now transferring to northern England. Recent gusts 84 mph at Blackpool Airport and 80 mph at Crosby.#
and so on.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26148847
Gusts of 60mph here were bad enough.
Fred
“States can’t just be created without the consent of the international community.”
__________________________
Quite so – as Israel was.
BTW – do you believe that Israel has the right to exist? Or are you, like Mary, Nevermind and Mr Scourgie, a denier?
Mr Goss
“You’re wrong Habby. I did answer your question.”
___________________
Afraid not, Mr Goss. Third time lucky and to help you I’ll rephrase my question to make sure you understand it.
Do you believe that the intentions of the US in setting up Guantanamo/Bagram were the same as the intentions of the Nazis in setting up the concentration camps? Do they serve the same purpose?
~~~~~~~~~~~~
“There have not been as many murdered or tortured as there were in the Nazi camps yet.”
____________________
Since you’re back to the question of scale again (which was not my question, as you well know), let me ask you the following:
1/. how many people were tortured and murdered in the Nazi camps?
2/. how many people have been tortured and murdered in Guantanamo and Bagram?
3/. you say “yet” : does this imply that you believe that at solme point in the future the numbers will be similar?
Off you go!
Mary answers Clark’s question to her as follows:
“Clark I had not seen your question. Yes I do support the people of Gaza and have friends there whose lives are unbearable under the Israeli siege/blockade. No port. Nor airport. No way of exporting any goods they can produce etc etc,
They are as Palestinian as those living in the ‘West Bank’. They democratically elected Hamas whereas the PA in Ramallah are stooges of the USUKIs axis. Abbas’s mandate expired a long time back.”
______________________
Clark’s question was as follows :
“Mary, I’d be interested to hear your opinions on Hamas in Gaza.”
I’ll leave it to Clark and other readers to judge the adequacy of Mary’s “answer”.
What a girl! Lorde. Her speech at the Grammy’s.
‘Thank you so much everyone for making this song explode because this world is mental. (Laughter). Planet Earth is run by psychopaths that hide behind slick marketing, ‘freedom’ propaganda and ‘economic growth’ rhetoric, while they construct a global system of corporatized totalitarianism.
As American journalist Chris Hedges has identified, a corporate totalitarian core thrives inside a fictitious democratic shell. This core yields an ‘inverted’ totalitarian state that few recognize because it does not look like the Orwellian world of Nineteen Eighty-four.
This corporate totalitarian core is spreading outward from America. Planet Earth is being rapidly militarized by the world’s major and significant states, including their police forces. Meanwhile, state surveillance is becoming universal[5] and torture is outsourced to gulags.
Can we not imagine that in past times, simple folk found it hard to work out exactly how they were being manipulated by the Royal monarchies, and the Papal monarchy, who claimed a ‘divine right to rule’? Ordinary people from classical times through to the demise of Ancien Regime could not see how the rivalrous network of elites and oligarchs were linked, not least because the illiterate masses were indoctrinated to believe in their humble lot, to obey divinely-endorsed authority and to live in fear of damnation.
So, in today’s mental world, it should become clearer now that Planet Earth is ruled by super-wealthy people, who use their outrageous fortunes to steer the trajectories of whole societies for their own material and political gain. These oligarchs are, in fact, colluding for economic gain and conspiring to augment more political power.] Armies of professional, political, religious and military elites serve them. Together, they comprise a highly-networked transnational capitalist class that has been traced in studies by: Peter Phillips and Brady Osborne; William K. Carroll; David Rothkopf;] Daniel Estulin; and Laurence H. Shoup and William Minter.
As Canadian journalist Naomi Klein has argued in her book, The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism, ‘free markets’ were slickly marketed in the 1980s and 1990s with the idea that they would deliver individual freedom and prosperity for all. Klein also wrote that the use of military violence to facilitate the spread of ‘free markets’ in the field-testing stage from the mid-1960s to the mid-1970s has continued into the 2000s. Her view is supported in Eugene Jarecki’s documentary Why We Fight, which compellingly showed that America fights wars to make the world secure for its corporations. So, get reading and viewing! (Lorde giggles and half the audience rises to their feet applauding. The other half remain fixed in their chairs. Some reluctantly clap).
Thank you so much everyone for giving a shit about our song, ‘Royals’. May you all find the balls to help construct a world based on resilient community, bona-fide freedom, and peace. To do that, we will need to redeploy the psychopaths that currently run the world to the planet’s prisons. Peace cannot happen with reconciliation. That was Nelson Mandela’s mistake. The first step to peace is justice firmly served.’
http://snoopman.wordpress.com/2014/02/06/lordes-suppressed-grammy-award-acceptance-speech-full-transcript-26-january-2014/
She is of Croatian and Irish parentage and comes from New Zealand.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorde
‘Singer-songwriter Lorde shocked USA America’s music industry when accepting her second miniature gold-coloured gramophone for the night at the 56th Annual Grammy Awards on Sunday January 26 2014 in Los Angeles, California. The shock was not because the singer-songwriter won two Grammy awards, Best Solo Pop Performance and Song of the Year, for her hit single ‘Royals’.
Rather, it has emerged that Lorde delivered a lecture-like speech that was a scathing indictment of global capitalism. But, the apparent ‘live’ broadcast had a one-minute delay and was switched to a ‘rehearsal take’ that had been shot earlier.
All of the nominees had been filmed earlier as a precaution, so that if any winners talked for too long or if their speeches or outfits revealed contents that breached its censorship rating, the Grammy’s studio could edit such moments without the wider world being any wiser. The near-seamless insertion of the ‘rehearsal take’ occurred after a wide-shot of the auditorium as Lorde, and her Grammy co-winner Joel Little, made their way up the steps to the stage.
Evidently, Lorde, whose real name is Ella Maria Lani Yelich-O’Connor, was miffed about the introduction of a ‘rehearsal take’ and prepared a lengthy speech. Yelich-O’Connor’s unexpected oratory nuclear-bomb shell nearly exploded the subterfuge of the ruling class both present and absent, and that of their media-guardians that watch over the White House-Hollywood Military-Media Complex.’
“Crane was an Executive Director in JPM’s Global Program Trading desk”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-02-12/another-jpmorgan-banker-dies-37-year-old-executive-director-program-trading