The problem with the Geneva Communique from the first Geneva round on Syria is that the government of Syria never subscribed to it. It was jointly chaired by the League of Arab States for Syria, whatever that may mean. Another problem is that it is, as so many diplomatic documents are, highly ambiguous. It plainly advocates a power sharing executive formed by some of the current government plus the opposition to oversee a transition to democracy. But it does not state which elements of the current government, and it does not mention which elements of the opposition, nor does it make plain if President Assad himself is eligible to be part of, or to head, the power-sharing executive, and whether he is eligible to be a candidate in future democratic elections.
Doubtless the British, for example, would argue that the term transition implies that he will go. The Russians will argue there is no such implication and the text does not exclude anybody from the process. Doubtless also diplomats on all sides were fully aware of these differing interpretations and the ambiguity is quite deliberate to enable an agreed text. I would say that the text tends much more to the “western” side, and that this reflects the apparently weak military position of the Assad regime at that time and the then extant threat of western military intervention. There has been a radical shift in those factors against the western side in the interim. Expect Russian interpretations now to get more hardline.
Given the extreme ambiguity of the text, Iran has, as it frequently does, shot itself in the foot diplomatically by refusing to accept the communique as the basis of talks and thus getting excluded from Geneva. Iran should have accepted the communique, and then at Geneva issued its own interpretation of it.
But that is a minor point. The farcical thing about the Geneva conference is that it is attempting to promote into power-sharing in Syria “opposition” members who have no democratic credentials and represent a scarcely significant portion of those actually fighting the Assad regime in Syria. What the West are trying to achieve is what the CIA and Mossad have now achieved in Egypt; replacing the head of the Mubarak regime while keeping all its power structures in place. The West don’t really want democracy in Syria, they just want a less pro-Russian leader of the power structures.
The inability of the British left to understand the Middle East is pathetic. I recall arguing with commenters on this blog who supported the overthrow of the elected President of Egypt Morsi on the grounds that his overthrow was supporting secularism, judicial independence (missing the entirely obvious fact the Egyptian judiciary are almost all puppets of the military) and would lead to a left wing revolutionary outcome. Similarly the demonstrations against Erdogan in Istanbul, orchestrated by very similar pro-military forces to those now in charge in Egypt, were also hailed by commenters here. The word “secularist” seems to obviate all sins when it comes to the Middle East.
Qatar will be present at Geneva, and Qatar has just launched a pre-emptive media offensive by launching a dossier on torture and murder of detainees by the Assad regime, which is being given first headline treatment by the BBC all morning
There would be a good dossier to be issued on torture in detention in Qatar, and the lives of slave workers there, but that is another question.
I do not doubt at all that atrocities have been committed and are being committed by the Assad regime. It is a very unpleasant regime indeed. The fact that atrocities are also being committed by various rebel groups does not make Syrian government atrocities any better.
But whether 11,000 people really were murdered in a single detainee camp I am unsure. What I do know is that the BBC presentation of today’s report has been a disgrace. The report was commissioned by the government of Qatar who commissioned Carter Ruck to do it. Both those organisations are infamous suppressors of free speech. What is reprehensible is that the BBC are presenting the report as though it were produced by neutral experts, whereas the opposite is the case. It is produced not by anti torture campaigners or by human rights activists, but by lawyers who are doing it purely and simply because they are being paid to do it.
The BBC are showing enormous deference to Sir Desmond De Silva, who is introduced as a former UN war crimes prosecutor. He is indeed that, but it is not the capacity in which he is now acting. He is acting as a barrister in private practice. Before he was a UN prosecutor, he was for decades a criminal defence lawyer and has defended many murderers. He has since acted to suppress the truth being published about many celebrities, including John Terry.
If the Assad regime and not the government of Qatar had instructed him and paid him, he would now be on our screens arguing the opposite case to that he is putting. That is his job. He probably regards that as not reprehensible. What is reprehensible is that the BBC do not make it plain, but introduce him as a UN war crimes prosecutor as though he were acting in that capacity or out of concern for human rights. I can find no evidence of his having an especial love for human rights in the abstract, when he is not being paid for it. He produced an official UK government report into the murder of Pat Finucane, a murder organised by British authorities, which Pat Finucane’s widow described as a “sham”. He was also put in charge of quietly sweeping the Israeli murders on the Gaza flotilla under the carpet at the UN.
The question any decent journalist should be asking him is “Sir Desmond De Silva, how much did the government of Qatar pay you for your part in preparing this report? How much did it pay the other experts? Does your fee from the Government of Qatar include this TV interview, or are you charging separately for your time in giving this interview? In short how much are you being paid to say this?”
That is what any decent journalist would ask. Which is why you will never hear those questions on the BBC.
Wow! Things are progressing. A film about the Occupation was on Australian TV – ABC no less, the state broadcaster and the equivalent of ZBC.
Aussie TV dares to show the real occupation
11 February 2014
I never thought I would see it. A mainstream TV programme, this one made by Australian channel ABC, that shows the occupation in all its inhuman horror. The 45-minute investigative film concerns the Israeli army’s mistreatment of Palestinian children.
Along the way, it provides absolutely devastating evidence that the children’s abuse is not some unfortunate byproduct of the occupation but the cornerstone of Israel’s system of control and its related need to destroy the fabric of Palestinian society.
Omar Barghouti has spoken of Israelis’ view of Palestinians as only “relatively human”. Here that profound racism is on full show. There are, of course, concessions to “balance” – in the hope of minimising the backlash from Israel – but they do nothing to dilute the power of the message. This is brave film-making of the highest order.
/..
http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2014-02-11/aussie-tv-dares-to-show-the-real-occupation/
Link to the film http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/stories/2014/02/10/3939266.htm#sthash.Wvme8uFW.dpuf
45 mins
There is no international law which prescribes absolute state recognition. Recognition has grown from a matter of state practice, i.e. other states’ views. That might mean individually or collectively depending on the weight of international opinion. But every recognition comes down to individual state choice and the political force that flows from political decisions. No Security Council, ICJ, Permanent Court of Arbitration or Regional Court has yet wanted to challenge that view. In my view, that is because without a definitive law, there are no avenues to challenge it productively. JM
When the supporters of torture and Anus freaks invade the blog it deteriorates into an apology for reason. Ignore them.
“It is not just posh people like Nick Clegg who come from generations of double, treble, multi-level political duplicity.”
Weren’t you at the same school?
“If you believe in social justice, you are never further than 3 metres from a rat!!!”
Or 50 metres.
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20716625
“As to helicopters it is possible to operate them without a pilot and stop them without a pilot wherever you want them dropped.”
Don’t be coy, Guano. Tell us that you think the security services dropped a helicopter on a nightclub and why you think that.
@Anon
Afghanistan has been invaded many times over the centuries and always for the same reason, to control the trade routes to southern Asia.
You may wish to believe that this time it was different, this time they invaded an entire country to capture one man. I have my doubts.
“When the supporters of torture and Anus freaks invade the blog it deteriorates into an apology for reason. Ignore them.”
Now this really is interesting. A Node makes a complete bullshit statement, has it pointed out to him, and Dross says Oh well, you’re just a supporter of torture.
We experienced the same the other night. Complete bullshit figures were made up about the number of dead in Dresden, by a factor of over ten. No attempts were made to address that. Instead it was Oh well, you’re just an apologist for bombing civilians.
As I’ve said before, facts aren’t important here, just that your heart’s in the right place and the narrative in the right direction.
Fred, Afghanistan was invaded to dismantle al-Qaeda and remove the Taliban from power. Total failure, I agree, but those were the objectives. You don’t squander trillions to build a pipeline.
meanwhile, off set in Sylliwood, the Zionist blockbuster soap based on Syria, which wasn’t in the Bafta awards, does anyone remember the previous blockbuster soap set in Yugoslavia? The main protagonists were the same. A Russian-backed dictator, who used to enjoy cups of tea in Paris with Mrs Thatcher. An AlQaidan hoard controlled by Mrs Thatcher, A mischievous villainous Europe power, in that case Germany, expert in Balkanising its neighbours, and in in the Sylliwood case, France.
Bosnia was the country from which Turkey for centuries drew its intellectual ruling class. Like all Ottoman soaps there has to be a crazy lady. Mrs T acted the role superbly, stating that Yugoslavia was a very long way away indeed, and that was strange because I had hitch=hiked through it perfectly freely as recently as 1977. Then there was the stuffed shirt who came and sorted them all out afterwards in the form of Paddy Ashdown, who was media parachuted in plastic combat gear out of a plastic helicopter with flashing LEDs, shouting “Europe” “Europe” from a miniature loudspeaker.
Syria is an entirely Zionist-media-fantasy blockbuster movie, with real=live home-grown extremised urban UK-mosque-dwellers, who are going to be leaving un=exploded bombs on roundabouts in Walsall, and the rest ad infinitum. if they wanted to get rid of Assad, it would have only needed an election and FUT, it would have been bed-time, there’s school tomorrow. No more playing with soldiers tonight. Go!To!Bed! As Blair so often reminded us, if he hadn’t have invaded Iraq (and destroyed the entire social infrastructure), Saddam would still have been killing people.
It’s no good focussing on the people suffering when the whole purpose of the exercise is for Zionism to snuff out an entire Muslim culture. Yes, Brian I do actually care, and I find it very difficult to concentrate on anything else while this desperate suffering continues. But the main thing about it is that it is a 100% deliberate UKUSIS+ political-Islam, created disaster.
Yes Mary a lot of distraction is going to be needed from the imminent star wars about to be unleashed on Assad and the Alawi people.
http://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/europe/9768-russia-us-and-france-planning-military-intervention-in-syria
Clark ref journalism and the corporate media, Jonathan Cook on Greenwald. He disputes Greenwald’s version of working for the Guardian. As you know, Cook got out of it.
http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2014-02-17/glenn-greenwalds-great-betrayal/
Any news of Julian Assange anyone? He is almost forgotten by the British MSM.
These came up as the most recent articles when googling his name under ‘news’
http://www.news.com.au/world/julian-assange-lawyers-say-prosecutor-passive-demand-london-interrogation-over-swedish-sex-assault-allegations/story-fndir2ev-1226825278269
http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/assange-story-media-watchdog-dismisses-complaint-against-four-corners-20140214-32qv2.html
All the earlier links were to Australian or American websites. Nothing British at all.
Habbabkuk (La vita è bella!
17 Feb, 2014 – 1:18 pm
Mr Scourgie
“King Abdullah’s objective was not to prevent the establishment of a Jewish state but to concentrate his forces in the West Bank and eliminate once and for all any possibility of an independent Palestinian state.”
“Exactly!!”
“Fred and others please note.”
Habbabkuk why does my answer excite you so much?
Abdullah was a traitor who conspired with the Zionists.
Why do you think it would have been better if Transjordan annexed the west bank?
The Palestinians would have been stateless then as they are now.
Do you not care about the Palestinians (as Abdullah clearly didn’t)?
Do you not like the idea of an independent Palestine?
Of course the Jewish State should exist and we wish it well. Let’s hope going forward all relations are good relations and our love for each other flourishes and as people we can realise hopes and dreams together.
A homeland for everyone. We should all be duty bound to serve the greater good of mankind,
Israel can be an epoch for the planet preservation society,
ESLO
17 Feb, 2014 – 1:41 pm
Per Resident Dissident above
“In the aftermath of the 1948 war, and conditional on Israel’s acceptance and implementation of resolutions 181 and 194, the UN General Assembly voted, with the May 11, 1949 Resolution 273 (III), to admit Israel to UN membership.”
“…and so the State of Israel was accepted by International Law – you may not like it but those are the facts.”
Is he wrong or is DS just in denial.
He is wrong in claiming that Israel was created by the UN. It wasn’t. I repeat Israel unilaterally declared its independence a year before those resolutions. A year before!!!
Wake up at the back!
Fred, forgive me if I’m wrong, but are not respect for human rights, freedom and a functioning democracy some of the basic requirements for international recognition of a state?
Sofe
Why do accidents actually happen? Can you ask your dad please. I am a dad and I don’t know the answer. Is it because God wants them to happen or is it because the government wants us to think that God is bad?
Anon : I beg to differ re Afghanistan. They changed the mission 2 or 3 times. I believe you are spouting version 3.It’s certainly never been about Bin Laden otherwise he could have been picked up many times including during his hospitalisation for his kidney problem. I think the US transported him in fact.He was their employee, they probably had email and a telephone number.They could’ve grabbed him clocking in ,in the morning.
Britain reckoned they were in there to destroy the opium crop.Build a few dams and not fire a shot.Think our MoD were smoking the opium before we went in.
You’ll find the US bases that have become their “Castles in the Sand”,are in situ along the path of the projected pipeline.It is obviously still a US pipe dream. Karzai was an employee of the oil company trying to build the pipeline way back when Osama was fighting Russians on behalf of the CIA and the USA.
It was and is all about oil, and control.
Personally I do believe that the US is leaving Afghanistan because of all the equipment they are currently destroying there and rendering inoperable.Stuff that would’ve been quite handy for their infrastructure… like 4 G communication network.
Thanks Mary. Occupied Palestine is not a place to bring up a child if you Palestinian. Jonathan Cook’s report makes harrowing viewing. But there are some good Israeli people, like the female lawyer, and the man whose grandparents were victims of the holocaust who turns up with a camera to escort Palestinian children from school in the hope that the camera will deter settlers from abusing the children.
http://www.jonathan-cook.net/blog/2014-02-11/aussie-tv-dares-to-show-the-real-occupation/
It is a good report from Four Corners, one of the few documentary producers to give a proper account of the Julian Assange set up.
ESLO
17 Feb, 2014 – 1:45 pm
“Given that neither blanket bombing or more targeted drone attacks are not seen as acceptable ways of dealing with the Taliban – perhaps some of the Eminences might wish to suggest how the Taliban should be dealt with – love bombed?”
Blanket bombing and targeted assassinations are war crimes ESLO; nuf said?
Good news!
A world map of racism has been produced and English-speaking Western countries, along with much of South America, top the charts in easy-going attitudes towards foreigners.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2013/05/racial-tolerance-map-hk-fix.jpg
A lot of work to be done in Russia, Iran, China and India, mind you!
Anon 17 Feb, 2014 – 8:46 pm
“More bollocks from A Node.”
Thanks for the endorsement of my manhood, but you’re going to need more than flattery to make me overlook your weak argument.
OK, so you’ve given me some links which boil down to : “we’ve asked the American administration and they say it’s not true” Well, they would say that wouldn’t they? I can match you link for link if you want, but you’ll say “Well, they would say that wouldn’t they?” This is an argument that we’re not going to resolve on this blog.
But let’s have a laugh and examine your ‘evidence.’ The links you offered are confused nonsense.
Take the Guardian one. His entire case is “there is no possible motive for Unocal to build a pipeline in Afghanistan therefore the entire conspiracy theory fails” but unfortunately for his case, it is easy to prove beyond doubt that Unocal DID have such a plan. Now let’s look at the Salon article. Firstly it begins with a link to an even earlier Salon article “documenting al-Qaida’s interest in the Unocal pipeline project, and tracing the ties between the Bush administration’s Afghanistan advisors and Unocal through to today.” Here’s that piece:
http://www.salon.com/2002/06/05/memo_11/
So already your ‘evidence’ is contradicting itself.
Then your Salon article goes on to claim to have contacted the person (Tom Simons former ambassador to Pakistan) alleged to have made the carpet of gold/bombs” ultimatum and quotes him saying “Nothing [such as that ultimatum] was said in the meetings, and I was in all the meetings.” However Simons gave an interview to Le Monde later that year when he conceded that a threat might have been issued outside the official meeting rooms.
“It’s possible that a mischievous American participant, after several drinks, may have thought it smart to evoke gold carpets and carpet bombs. Even Americans can’t resist the temptation to be mischievous.”
said Simons. The general consensus is that other witnesses were confirming that the ultimatum had been made so he attempted to downplay it rather than continue to deny it. So Salon’s case that there was no such threat is contradicted from the horse’s mouth.
And the 911myths link is a joke. It sets up a straw man – conspiracy theorists believe that 911 was an inside job specifically to provide an excuse for invading Afghanistan and building the pipeline – and then destroys the conspiracy with logical bombshells such as :
“And because of that, how does any of this fit in with the theory that 9/11 was “an inside job”? After all, what would America have done if the Taliban had heard about the “carpet of bombs” and decided to hand over Bin Ladin? Wouldn’t this have been just a tiny bit inconvenient with regards to the “War on Terror”? Not for the first time, the conspiracy explanations just don’t seem to fit the facts..”
All this illustrated with quotes cherrypicked from the discredited Salon article (see above).
Thanks for providing such a revealing demonstration of the quality of argument available on your side of the credibility divide.
Doug Scorgie
Face palm – it has already been explained to you many many times – since I very much doubt that you will be standing up in court any time now challenging the right of Israel to exist in international law (or Fred for that matter) might you give everyone a rest – as far as I am concerned you can and probably do believe in Father Christmas, the Tooth Fairy and the Bogeyman.
DonnyDarko
You’re correct in that a certain amount of mission creep came in after it became clear that there was no hope of defeating the Taliban – girls’ education and the like to justify the lives lost after the failure of the original mission. I don’t believe the object of the trillion-dollar exercise was to build a pipeline. The US and Britain have enough experience of the region to know that if you want to do anything like that you merely bribe the right people with the right sum of money.
We should be dealing with the Taliban from outside the country and without our guns pointing at them.
They were there before we invaded because they are residents, and we are unwelcome invaders.
I might not like what they do, but I don’t like what Westminster does either.
Get out, respect the UN charter and talk to them on a diplomatic level. But,
since they never invaded anybody, can we not just leave them alone ?
Doug Scorgie
Both I and A node presented evidence on Dieudonne at the weekend – there should be more than enough for you to form an opinion as to whether or not he is an anti-Semite.
ESLO
17 Feb, 2014 – 2:06 pm
“Scorgie”
“Perhaps some of us don’t carry a candle for either Fateh or Hamas – although you clearly appear to carry one for Hamas. It is quite clear that between them they have derived (sic) [I assume you mean deprived] the Palestinians of democracy for nearly 4 years and have not sought to renew their mandate in the parts of Palestine that they do control.”
Hamas and Fatah have not deprived the Palestinians of democracy. The US/UK/Israel and others have deprived the Palestinians of democracy.
Hamas won the election in 2006.
I do not “carry a candle” for Hamas or any other religion based political party. I am a secularist and an atheist but I believe in democracy and I argue on behalf of Hamas on the principle of democracy.
Should Hamas or Fatah call an election now?
Would you honour the result?
Mary, Assange was debated on Swedish television. One of the best recent articles is by Professor Marcello Ferrada de Noli. Elisabeth Massi Fritz is the most recent lawyer for Sofia Wilen. She says she wants a quick solution but won’t come to England. At least five Swedish lawyers cannot understand why the prosecution team, one of whom is in partnership with the former Justice Minister, Thomas Bodstrom, who was instrumental in the extradition at the request of the CIA of two Egyptian nationals who were subsequently tortured. Anne Ramsberg who is General Secretary of the Swedish Bar Association is one who cannot understand why he is not questioned in London. I can though. He has no case to answer. It becomes clearer by the day. Marianne Ny does not want the shame of coming to London and going back to Sweden empty-handed. They definitely want to extradite him. But there are elections in Sweden in September and Reinfeldt looks highly likely to go. Karl Rove is helping him (the man who rigged George W. Bush’s illegal election). It stinks, but perhaps with a new government it will be quickly settled.
http://professorsblogg.com/2014/02/07/rebuttingemfritz/
Mission creep Anon, c’mon !
Bribery, sure , it could work. But the country is so divided that you have to pay too many bribes.They’ve been sending money in on pallets and they are still fighting.And then you have the warlords that have been supported for 30 odd years by the US, they have a thriving opium and heroin trade… Not interested in pipelines.Opium pipes maybe.
The girls education stuff is for western media to swallow.Nobody cares if women have the vote, are educated or are covered from head to toe. This is cynical crocodile tear shit by a Western Alliance that has no qualms about drone bombing these same poorly educated females.
It is no coincidence that every country where US aid and US national interests are, have oil or mineral wealth.Corporations drive American foreign policy and they want what everyone else has, so what is important to US national interest is securing what belongs to other nations for themselves.
A Node
To clarify, the authors of a book claim they were told by a Pakistani diplomat that someone in an American delegation had threatened the Taliban with the words, “Accept our offer of a carpet of gold or we bury you under a carpet of bombs”.
Really, Node, that sounds like exactly the sort of thing you’d expect to come from the arse of a Pakistani diplomat, especially with regard to the Taliban.
So yes, he would say that.
““Barroso told Andrew Marr an independent Scotland would have to reapply for membership and get the approval of all current member states.”
“Sounds like a fact to me – even though I do live in a parallel universe.”
I don’t know where you live ResDis, perhaps its Wonderland?
Someone (who you agree with) gives an opinion and it is a FACT to you.
Someone gives an opinion you don’t like and that would be a LIE. No?”
Please go and read the EU Charters new member states are required to be approved unanimously by existing member states – given Barroso’s position and the subject under discussion I suspect that he looked into the matter before opening his mouth (or even got the EU’s lawyers to look into the matter) – a course of action I would heartily recommend. Once you have looked through all the EU Charters to find the clauses that would allow the EU to use another process to admit a new member then you can return but only then.
ESLO
17 Feb, 2014 – 2:12 pm
“It was cancelled Habbabkuk by the western “democracies” and Israel.”
“Crap”
ESLO, Hamas was overwhelmingly elected in a democratic process that was overseen by UN observers.
If it wasn’t cancelled by the western “democracies” and Israel what happened?