The disgraceful judges of Britain’s High Court – who have gone along with torture, extraordinary rendition, every single argument for mass surveillance and hiding information from the public, and even secret courts – have ruled that it was lawful for the Home Office to detain David Miranda, a journalist as information he was carrying might in some undefined way, and if communicated to them, aid “terrorists”.
Despite the entire industry, both private and governmental, devoted to whipping up fear, it is plain to pretty well everyone by now that terrorism is about the most unlikely way for you to die. A car accident is many hundreds of times more likely. Even drowning in your own bath is more likely. Where is the massive industry of suppression against baths?
I had dinner inside the Ecuadorian Embassy on Sunday with Julian Assange, who I am happy to say is as fit and well as possible in circumstances of confinement. Amongst those present was Jesselyn Radack, attorney for, among others, Edward Snowden. Last week on entering the UK she was pulled over by immigration and interrogated about her clients. The supposed “immigration officer” already knew who are Jesselyn Radack’s clients. He insisted aggressively on referring repeatedly to Chelsea Manning as a criminal, to which Jesselyn quietly replied that he was a political prisoner. But even were we to accept the “immigration officer’s” assertion, the fact that an attorney defends those facing criminal charges is neither new nor until now considered reprehensible and illegitimate.
As various states slide towards totalitarianism, a defining factor is that their populations really don’t notice. Well, I have noticed. Have you?
Perhaps posts have been deleted for being off-topic.
It can’t have been because they’re merely boring.
I posted a tiresomely long boring on-topic piece above on the Miranda decision and it wasn’t deleted.
Habbabkuk (19 Feb, 2014 – 11:28 pm) : “Not nit-picking but just a couple of (genuine) queries about your latest.”
Actually, one of the reasons I like your posts is because they often contain genuine, if probing and difficult, questions. Let idle assumptions lie, and lord knows where we’d end up. This sort of forced examination keeps us honest 🙂
My use of the term “group”, as distinct from citizens in general, was to distinguish those people with which the authorities will have a problem (the awkward squad, if you will), in addition to genuine criminals, but minus those criminals who act on behalf of the state. That is a particular subset of the public. Not lawbreakers necessarily, and definitely not the state’s apparatchiks. ( A definition I probably meant to get back to, but had already rambled enough.)
H: “You appear to be suggesting it is also used for other purposes. What do you have in mind?
Identifying individuals, who are opposed to corporate interests, and the direction of the government. Simple as that. Why has any repressive government undertaken enormous efforts to identify malcontents? Why indeed do security services always want unlimited power and information?
Unless we believe our “security” forces sit with the angels, we should be concerned. Would you not agree?
H: “…..unless you mean the [panoply] of UK anti-terrorism laws…? (it’s not clear to me from your text).
Sorry if I was a bit unclear. Yes – that’s more or less what I meant. Sweeping, vague powers which could always be interpreted as defence against “terrorism”. We considered terrorism legislation to prosecute Icelandic banks when they decided to default on dodgy loans. Terrorism legislation is always offered as an absolute last resort, to be used in only the most dire circumstance when being debated into law.
Then it gets used to haul off a vegan chef for reading out the names of dead British soldiers at a London Cenotaph, or to manhandle an 80-year old Labour stalwart for heckling Straw at a Labour party conference. Or for wearing a T-Shirt denouncing our Great Leaders of being war criminals. Or for obstructing business interests, demonstrating for animals rights, failing to abide by Control Orders… the list is fairly extensive. Of course, they are not prosecuted. Except – for instance – when it does, such as in the case of the vegan chef mentioned, who now has a rap of terrorism against her.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4514004.stm
She was convicted of breaching Section 132 of the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act.
But it doesn’t matter if anyone was actually charged later or not – the chilling effect is there. How many people dared to heckle a lying Labour politician at a conference since? How many people don’t like to show up to completely legal demonstrations, because they don’t want to be on the record as a trouble-maker? Not to mention the brutality of the police which is exceedingly unlikely to be prosecuted, while the mildest defence of oneself most certainly will be.
Let’s take it a step further – would you be happy with a government camera in every room of your house, and if not, why not?
Always interesting – appreciate it!
Cheers on your 12:41, Glenn. I’m drawing a pint in your honour.
Deleting posts?
What I hope is going on is that someone – Craig? – is deleting without explanation all posts which are primarily about other posters rather than relevant subject matter. If so, we will soon learn that if we want our pearls of wisdom to survive and enlighten the masses, we will have to excercise self-restaint. In short, we are hopefully being trained to stop bitching.
I hope this post is deleted because it will probably mean I am right.
Nice foto here, of Aaron Kirkhouse accepting the Sam Adams Award for Integrity in Intelligence on behalf of Chelsea Manning,
And oor own Craig in the Thick it
http://www.privatemanning.org/featured/chelsea-manning-acceptance-statement-of-sam-adams-award-for-integrity-in-intelligence
In the Thick Of it
Great article and commentary with things that need to be said. But it’s not a security state that we are developing. It’s a secret police state.
@ 19th Fen at 12.31 above – KingofWelshNoir asks what we can do about it. Well, one shouldn’t throw Molotov Cocktails or take any form of violent action. But one can do some things peacefully. Speak out – try and hold our human rights industry and media to account (they are not doing their job) – and don’t vote for any politicians who won’t tackle the secret state.
I recently drafted another paper on Zersetzen – which is the state’s illegal use of its secret police (MI5, MI6, CSIS, etc.) to persecute dissenters and other enemies of power-elites with a program of lies, threats, harassment, intimidation, ostracization, etc. But it is a paper with a difference as it doesn’t use my own example to make its case, but the examples of 25 others. The paper is embedded on a Wiki I drafted which can be accessed by clicking on my signature, or be viewed by pasting in the following URL
https://onedrive.live.com/redir?resid=B4C0386C05842C0F!1466&authkey=!ABbuVTB8me3qmMs&ithint=file%2c.pdf
The purpose of this paper is to provide examples – precedents – of where Zersetzen / Cointelpro has happened to others (not myself), and to do so in a way that you can check the facts out on the internet for yourself. Some 25 cases of Zersetzen in the UK, Canada and USA are reviewed. Zersetzen seems to be quite common across all the countries that are part of the “five eyes” intelligence agreements. But we are not really talking about intelligence or security – we are talking about control (of the people). We can’t do much; but we can speak out – again and again.
This is on-topic for everything, not just this thread. This is the topic to end all topics. This regime has got to go.
http://correntewire.com/i_couldn_t_believe_that_s_how_we_treat_human_beings_witnessing_omar_khadr
Saw this. Right. Let’s cut out the courts and trials at a stroke. From arrest to prison cell in one easy step.
Calls for ‘on-the-spot’ justice
Magistrates should be moved to police stations at peak times to dispense on-the-spot justice, a report by the Policy Exchange think tank says.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26277087
Policy Exchange History
Policy Exchange was set up in 2002 by a group including Nicholas Boles (director), Michael Gove (chairman) and Francis Maude. Maude went on to become Minister for the Cabinet Office, and names being one of the co-founders as his proudest political achievement. Gove went on to become Secretary of State for Education.
Gove was succeeded as chairman by Charles Moore, former editor of the Spectator and the Daily Telegraph. In June 2011, Moore stepped down to focus on his newspaper columns and his biography of Margaret Thatcher, and was succeeded by Daniel Finkelstein, associate editor of The Times.
In May 2007, Boles was succeeded as director by Anthony Browne, a journalist and political correspondent for The Times. In September 2008, Browne stepped down to work for Boris Johnson, and was succeeded by Neil O’Brien, formerly director of Open Europe. In November 2012, O’Brien was appointed as a special adviser to George Osborne, and in 2013 he was succeeded by Dean Godson, formerly head of Policy Exchange’s security unit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Policy_Exchange
Enough said.
On the Charity Commission website, their income for 2012 is stated as £3,224,162 and spending as £2,898,384. Little detail in the accounts as to the source of the income. £2.6m of the total is designated as ‘voluntary income’.
PS Boles is now the Planning Minister.
Writing The Snowden Files: ‘The paragraph began to self-delete’
Was it the NSA? GCHQ? A Russian hacker? Who was secretly reading his book on Snowden while he wrote it, wonders Luke Harding
Luke Harding
The Guardian, Thursday 20 February 2014
http://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/feb/20/edward-snowden-files-nsa-gchq-luke-harding
PS He never found out.
Pan
Thank you for that link.
Amok: Jim ‘Puzzle Palace’ Bamford details the uncontrolled cancerous growth of the #NSA. Riveting: http://tinyurl.com/pouql95
NB: Confirmed (1.07 in). Not just ‘5 Eyes: #NSA does indeed shovel
its raw data to Israel.
I see a comment of mine was deleted. So I should damn well think. LOL.
Look, I don’t want to make too much of this,
[so it has been made less of]
I’d be reluctant to believe that CM would intervene – or at least, that he would intervene without notification.
[Reams of waffle deleted]
Old and overlooked US report on counterterrorism measures –
http://www.hsgac.senate.gov/subcommittees/investigations/media/investigative-report-criticizes-counterterrorism-reporting-waste-at-state-and-local-intelligence-fusion-centers
‘A two-year bipartisan investigation by the U. S. Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations has found that Department of Homeland Security efforts to engage state and local intelligence “fusion centers” has not yielded significant useful information to support federal counterterrorism intelligence efforts.
“It’s troubling that the very ‘fusion’ centers that were designed to share information in a post-9/11 world have become part of the problem. Instead of strengthening our counterterrorism efforts, they have too often wasted money and stepped on Americans’ civil liberties,” said Senator Tom Coburn, the Subcommittee’s ranking member who initiated the investigation….'(continues)
How about the Qatar International Academy for Security Studies?? They are interested in ‘COMBATING VIOLENT EXTREMISM’. Really?
http://www.qiass.org/news/
Next week in committees.
Tuesday
The Home Affairs Committee (3pm) takes evidence on counter-terrorism, from Richard Barrett of the Qatar International Academy for Security Studies and The Soufan Group, which provides strategic security intelligence services to governments and multinational organizations.
Then at 3.30pm the switch to their inquiry into the performance to date of the new elected Police and Crime Commissioners, with evidence from Ann Barnes, the Police and Crime Commissioner in Kent , and her Chief Constable Alan Pughsley.
Then (4pm) they hear from the Police Minister Damian Green – usually the last act in a select committee inquiry.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26279577
~~~
Ali Soufan, ex FBI, is on the same Qatari QIASS set up. Many other of the names too.
http://soufangroup.com/about/team/
More hilarious background on DHS Fusion Centers here –
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusion_center
Is there a Brit equivalent? Nearest I can think of is the JIC.
Ba’al Agree. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Intelligence_Committee_(United_Kingdom)
See all the knights of the realm listed as chairmen apart from the current chair. His gong is in the post presumably.
A quote from your link.
‘The report also said that in some cases the fusion centers violated civil liberties or privacy.[4]
Registration is needed to see the link.
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/10/03/senate_report_says_national_intelligence_fusion_centers_have_been_useless
Not the most flattering image.
Director Private Office Jonathan Stephen Day
2001 –
http://www.nato.int/cv/is/dir-po/day.htm
My link at 0820 doesn’t need registration, Mary. And it’s to the US .gov site. I try to find original sources when I can. In this case I was chasing a Press TV story, which, as usual, badly needed authentication.
Ba’al I meant the link numbered 4 on your Wiki link against the line –
‘The report also said that in some cases the fusion centers violated civil liberties or privacy.[4]’
@ glenn_uk 21 Feb, 2014 – 12:41 am
“Let’s take it a step further – would you be happy with a government camera in every room of your house, and if not, why not?”
I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear. I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear. I have nothing to hide and nothing to fear.
My portrait of Our Dear Leader never hangs askew and I always genuflect when near.
I never engage in funny walks, excepting those specifically prescribed by the Ministry of Funny Walks.
I never assemble unauthorized devices in the kitchen using common household supplies. My fridge contains no sugary drinks, salty snacks or transfats.
Before flushing, I allow the camera a clear view of the toilet bowl so worthy Government Turd Inspectors can certify my fibrous diet, and not dispatch the feared Celery Squad to force-feed with a funnel, like a Strasbourg goose.
Some people commenting here seem alarmed that their comments have been interfered with. Rest assured that we have complete records of all that has happened, nothing of great value has gone missing, and please be confident that we won’t tell any member of the public a damn thing. Our NSA colleagues say to ‘have a nice day’.
[Shit, is that Snowden? Quick, put the bland denial literature on the desk and hide underneath!]
Further to the ineffectiveness and possible unproductivity of counterterrorism measures-
http://www.rutgerscps.org/publications/Lum_Terrorism_Review.pdf
‘There is almost a complete absence of high quality
scientific evaluation evidence on counter-terrorism strategies;
What evidence there is does not indicate consistently
positive results – some counter terrorism interventions
show no evidence of reducing terrorism and may even increase
the likelihood of terrorism and terrorism-related harm….’
Yes, Mary. That’s Wiki’s fault, not mine. They should have linked to the source.
“Dreoilin, you responded to Phil, agreeing with him”
No John. I quoted one sentence from Phil (“Hanging around here endlessly bickering with a handful of people for 13 pages of comments is probably not any way to challenge the powers that be”) which I took to be a reference to the previous thread. And I agreed with that.
Since I was well aware that KingofWelshNoir had played no part in those 13 pages, I couldn’t have been commenting on him.
“Phil’s comment suggested that KingofWelshNoir should spend less time here and more time in active protest.”
More inaccuracy. Phil quoted KingofWelshNoir (“I have no idea what to do about it”) and Phil said “I recommend agitating in your community and on the streets.” He did not berate KingofWelshNoir about spending less time here, and neither did I. If there was a misunderstanding, John, it was only because you are not reading carefully enough. And you are then misquoting people.
—————————————————————————
Habbabkuk says, “I’d be reluctant to believe that CM would intervene – or at least, that he would intervene without notification”
Clearly someone is intervening, without notifying us, and I doubt very much if it’s Jon or Clark.
I doubt if this comment of mine will be allowed to stand. Anyway, one way or another, I’m out of it until the situation is clarified.
[Your lengthy self-justification remains. Thank you for its valuable political content. What’s the problem? Do all the moderators at the Guardian etc. reveal their identities? Rhetorical – please don’t answer.]
RT (CAVEAT: its remit is to illuminate the less attractive aspects of Western government while remaining opaque on Russia’s many problems) went into some depth on that report. Here –
http://rt.com/usa/intelligence-fusion-dhs-report-598/
Download the .pdf from here –
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1766790
if you thought drone strikes on alleged terrorists did anything more than make more people dead.
‘If the goal of counterterrorism policy is to reduce casualties, then the
tactic of targeted removal is at the least inconsistent in its effectiveness. At worst, it puts innocent civilians in danger.’
This is a pretty rigorous paper, and its conclusions are cautious. But it wouldn’t encourage me to buy some drones and start shooting up someone else’s countryside.
Edit: Most horrible gaffe above. It should, of course, have been The Ministry of Silly Walks. Entirely unintentional. Hope the Ministry doesn’t send me to a re-eduction camp.
Thanks for adding a big fat smile to my face this sunny morn, NR and how right you are.
@ Brendan. I fully agree that CCTV has been rolled out too far and too wide, only some hollow voices these days still argue that it is used for criminal detection.
Norwich has got some 70 cameras of the best CCTV system money can buy. It has been trialled and tested in Palestine by those best not mentioned before page five.
http://www.norwichadvertiser24.co.uk/news/the_4_8m_cost_of_norfolk_s_cctv_cameras_1_767403
CCtv can also be seen on private housing, advertising that they are either a victim of crime, scared to become one, have something valuable to protect and/or hide. CCTV is not a deterent but it raises questions as to why its there on a suburban semi, when the rest of the housing has none?
Thanks for the link Pan. and Dreolin, there is no situation here, except that moderation has been resumed. I welcome it, thank you.
As for phil’s point you and I supported. It most likely was raised at us all, a reasonale point, imho, because the action for change will not happen on the internet alone, it will have various active forms and its people like us who should get involved and dare I say this, we will.
My ‘Dreolin’ outside is busy building nests, I have two in the hedge and they do not like each other, or is it the other way round…. like each other too much.