I listened live to Putin’s speech yesterday with great interest. Here is my own analysis, for what it is worth.
Putin was strongest in his accusations of western hypocrisy. His ironic welcoming of the West having suddenly discovered the concept of international law was very well done. His analysis of the might is right approach the West had previously adopted, and their contempt of the UN over Iraq and Afghanistan, was spot on. Putin also was absolutely right in describing the Kosovo situation as “highly analogous” to the situation in Crimea. That is indeed true, and attempts by the West – including the Guardian – to argue the cases are different are pathetic exercises in special pleading.
The problem is that Putin blithely ignored the enormous logical inconsistency in his argument. He stated that the Crimean and Kosovo cases were highly analogous, but then used that to justify Russia’s action in Crimea, despite the fact that Russia has always maintained the NATO Kosovo intervention was illegal(and still refuses to recognize Kosovo). In fact of course Russia was right over Kosovo, and thus is wrong over Crimea.
I was very interested that Putin made distinct reference to the appalling crimes against the Tartars in the 1930’s, but also to the terrible suffering of Ukrainians in that period. His references were not detailed but their meaning was clear. I was surprised because under Putin’s rule there has been a great deal of rehabilitation of Stalin. Archives that were opened under glasnost have frozen over again, and history in Russian schools now portrays Stalin’s foreign policy achievement much more than his crimes (and it is now again possible to complete your Russian school education with no knowledge the Stalin-Hitler pact ever happened). So this was both surprising and positive. Designed to be positive was his assurance that Crimea will be trilingual. We will see what happens; Putin’s Russia is in fact not tolerant of its ethnic populations in majority Russian areas, and in fact contains a great many more far right thugs than Ukraine – probably about the same percentage of the population.
The 97% referendum figure is simply unbelievable to any reasonable person and is straight out of the Soviet playbook – it was strange to see Putin going in and out of modern media friendly mode and his audience, with their Soviet en brosse haircuts and synchronized clapping – obviously liked the Soviet bits best.
The attempt to downplay Russia’s diplomatic isolation was also a bit strange. He thanked China, though China had very pointedly failed to support Russian in the Security Council. When you are forced to thank people for abstaining, you are not in a strong position diplomatically. He also thanked India, which is peculiar, because the Indian PM yesterday put out a press release saying Putin had called him, but the had urged Putin to engage diplomatically with the interim government in Kiev, which certainly would not be welcome to Putin. I concluded that Putin was merely trying to tell his domestic audience Russia has support, even when it does not.
But what I find really strange is that the parts of the speech I found most interesting have not drawn any media comment I can see. Putin plainly said that in his discussions with Kuchma on the boundaries of Ukraine after the collapse of the Soviet Union, they hadn’t wanted to open any dispute with what they expected to be a friendly neighbor, and that therefore the boundaries of Ukraine had never been finally demarcated. He said twice the boundaries had not been demarcated. That seemed to indicate a very general threat to Eastern Ukraine. He also spoke of the common heritage of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine in a way that indicated that he did not accept that Ukraine might choose a political future away from Russia.
Secondly, he said that on the day the Soviet Union broke up, Russians in many places had “woken up to find themselves in a foreign country.” Again from the context in which he said it, this referred not just to Crimea, and not just even to the rest of Ukraine, but to Russian nationals all over the Former Soviet Union. I would be worrying a lot about this part of the speech if I was Kazakh, to give just one example. Putin seemed to be outlining a clear agenda to bring Russian speaking areas of CIS countries back in to Mother Russia – indeed, I see no other possible interpretation of his actions in Georgia and Ukraine.
I think that we should start listening much more carefully to what he says. I also think that the weakness of the EU’s response to events gives Putin a very dangerous encouragement to pursue further aggrandizement. I posted a few days ago:
The EU I expect to do nothing. Sanctions will target a few individuals who are not too close to Putin and don’t keep too many of their interests in the West. I don’t think Alisher Usmanov and Roman Abramovic need lose too much sleep, that Harrods need worry or that we will see any flats seized at One Hyde Park. (It is among my dearest wishes one day to see One Hyde Park given out for council housing.) Neither do I expect to see the United States do anything effective; its levers are limited.
The truth is of course that the global political elite are in the pockets of the global financial elite, and while ordinary Russians are still desperately poor, the money the oligarchs rip out of Russia’s backward commodity exporting economy is parceled around the world financial system in ways that make it impossible for the western political classes to do anything. Whose funds would the hedge fund managers look after? Whose yacht could Mandelson and Osborne holiday on?
Personally I should like to see a complete financial freeze on the entire Russian oligarchy. The knock on effects would only hurt a few bankers, and city types and those who depend on them (cocaine dealers, lap dancers, Porsche dealers, illegal domestic servants). Sadly we shan’t see anything happen. They won’t let Eton go bust.
Mike
Yet again, cruelty of one you are trying to excuse by cruelty of other.
So called cunt Stalin was in fact one of the military leaders of Red Terror. Have you heard of Battle of Caricin and its aftermath.
Uzbek in the UK, 21 Mar, 10:05 pm, indeed, and I see what you’re up against. I tried something similar myself once, arguing for the rationing of hydrocarbon extraction on a global warming denial blog. This is probably where the knives start coming out:
http://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2011/12/31/clark-energy-resources-and-the-future/comment-page-1/#comment-12538
Uzbek In The UK
Are you falling for the infantile fallacy of two wrongs making a right ? Does what happened to the Crimean Tatars, make Western meddling decades later, in the Ukraine situation right !
Anybody can pick out massacres from history & say “how many of you know what happened to.”
for example, the Poles in the Volhynia Massacre, ?
BTW Have you still nothing to say about the Chooseness” of the Jews, or the “Manifest Destiny” doctrine of the Americans, in connection with Chauvinism ?
Uzbek. 10 30pm
You know as well as anyone else here “who to blame for what has happened to Crimean Tatars?”
Mike gave you the short answer, which really says it all. “A nasty, paranoid, murderous regime did that to the Tatars.”
You can shout as much as you like about “MAD lefties” if that helps you but it won’t alter the facts. Of course the Soviet government bears the blame for the starving of 100,000+ Tatars, the brutal killing and deportations during the collectivisations of the late 1920s, the engineered famine of 1931-33, and the final deportation of 1944. Yes, the Tatars suffered more in proportion to their total population than other persecuted minorities under the Soviet system, even the Ukrainians. There will never be any excuse.
It is no surprise that Tatars, as a group, feel hostile to all things Russian, but do you really wish to see present day ethnic Russians collectively punished for Stalinist sins? Thank goodness present day Tatars don’t and it appears that many cast votes for integrating with Russia rather than being ruled by the Nuland’s coup thugs.
The Tatars got their Awda. Lets hope the Palestinians get theirs before another seventy years pass. http://www.israelshamir.net/English/Autumn.htm
My heart goes out to all Uzbeks who, supported by elites both east and west, live and die under the present brutal regime. Your status as one of it’s victims, whether real or contrived, gives you some protection from the ridicule that your frequent intemperate outbursts invite.
To label as “MAD lefties” all those who question your visceral hatred of all things Russian does you no favours. Though I don’t particularly mind being included in this group, I would respect you and your posts more if you could point me to sound sources of information to back your views.
It’s a lovely morning here, frost covers the mountains with a hoary mantle and I’m off to make the most of the day. I know a fake adolescent MAD leftie troll is the last person you’d usually want to take advice from, but here it is anyway. Please take a walk under the beautiful sky that we all share….breath deep….take a break from all the horrors….then let’s get back to the business of making a world where humanity and respect for each other and the rule of law are the norm.
The BBC: Washington’s Mouthpiece — Paul Craig Roberts
March 16, 2014
Paul Craig Roberts
Once upon a time the BBC was a news organization, but that was before the organization sold out to Washington. Today the BBC is a liar for Washington. Indeed, the BBC is a despicable organization that believes that “exceptional, indispensable” Washington has the right to determine the fate of all peoples.
The proof is everywhere. Just look here: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26606097
The BBC says that the referendum in Crimea is disputed. But by whom? Not by the people voting. The dispute comes from the anti-democratic forces that are not voting–the Obama regime and its puppet UK government and puppet BBC ministry of propaganda.
How far the BBC has fallen! Look as these BBC lies:
Lie: “Many Crimeans loyal to Kiev boycotted the referendum, and the EU and US condemned it as illegal.”
Fact: More than 80% voted and the vote was 96% against Washington. So who precisely boycotted the vote, and how could it have made any difference? The BBC doesn’t care. The BBC’s job is to lie for Washington. Let’s assume that the 20% of voters who did not turn out would all have voted against rejoining Russia. That 20% together with the 4% who did vote not to rejoin Russia could give a vote of 24% against and 76% for. So, despite the BBC’s utterly dishonest attempt to suggest that it wasn’t a majority vote, it would have made no difference whatsoever if the vote turnout had been 100% instead of 80%.
Lie: “Pro-Russian forces took control of Crimea in February.”
Fact: Anyone who would repeat this Washington lie at this stage is totally devoid of all integrity. Crimeans took control of their destiny. Crimeans refused to let Washington and its corrupt British puppet take control of Crimea’s destiny. Crimeans stood up to the lies and intimidation coming out of Washington and its two-bit punk NATO puppets. Crimeans gave the finger to the utterly corrupt West.
/..
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/03/16/bbc-washingtons-mouthpiece-paul-craig-roberts/
I am entitled to my own opinion. I do not like being cross questioned here as if it is some court of law. Especially not in bold font.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/03/deconstructing-putin/comment-page-2/#comment-447950
[craigmurray.org.uk – Uzbek in the UK got the bold closing tags wrong – bold font continued to the end of the paragraph.]
I normally find myself in agreement with Craig Murray ,BUT not on this occasion!
A couple of points that I would like to make clear.
As Craig Murray seems to believe that the Crimea is Ukrainian..WRONG!
Its Russian.
The vote was undemocratic/untimely WRONG ,
it would be vote or fight I think,and voting is better than fighting!
and Independant observers refied the vote!
The Russian military invaded the Ukraine…A LIE!
The Crimea has always been Russian!
We even had a Crimean War against…..no not the Ukrainians ,it was the Russians!
“the [Crimean] peninsula reverted to Russia as it was before 1954, when Communist Party leader Khrushchev passed it to the Ukrainian Soviet Republic.”
The vote was a landslide in favour from ALL ethnic groups!
Observers where there during the voting.
The poll was moved up to Sunday, March 16. Even before it could take place, the Crimean Parliament declared Crimea’s independence. The poll’s results were spectacular: 96% of the votes were for joining Russia; the level of participation was unusually high – over 84%. Not only ethnic Russians, but ethnic Ukrainians and Tatars voted for reunification with Russia as well.
There was NO RUSSIAN INVASION!!!
The marines Russia had based in Crimea by virtue of an international agreement (just as the US has marines in Bahrain) secured Crimea’s airports and roadblocks, provided necessary support to the volunteers of the Crimean militia (called Self-Defence Forces), but remained under cover. The Crimean parliament asserted its autonomy and promised a plebiscite in a month time.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/crimea-putins-triumph-now-the-confrontation-moves-east-to-new-russia/5374710
I am NOT a Putin supportter or a “putinista” as Craig pathetically calls them, therefore Craig must be a “cameronista” or is it a “cleggonista”?
Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dee ,Can you tell the difference?
BUT the West IS the aggressor in this case!
..and backing Neo-Nazis and those willing to sell Ukraines resouses for power.
This is NOT a unique situation
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2013/01/17/all-wars-are-bankers-wars-politions-are-just-thier-cheerleaders/
Here is the history behind this confrontation.
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2009/09/02/a-short-history-of-global-domination-or-rockefella-rothschild-and-the-capitalist-communist-nwo-con/
BUT IF any side will START a war it will be the Western powers!
The East is swimming in wealth and resourses
The West is bankrupt! ..unofficially since 2010!
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2010/02/08/is-the-us-already-bankrupt-and-trading-in-fake-gold/
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2010/08/14/u-s-bankrupt-its-official-china-to-take-over-us-assets-bp-final-nail-in-us-economic-coffin-is-war-the-only-us-way-out/
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2010/02/25/its-official-the-economy-will-recover-when-pigs-fly/
The West has massive political corruptions being investigated ,bailouts ,paedophilia ,as well as anti-government demonstrations
and all this political theft has not worked!
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2014/02/28/rbs-has-lost-all-the-46bn-pumped-in-by-the-taxpayer/
BUT who would put thier money into an UNPROFITABLE AND CORRUPT BANK RUN BY FRAUDSTERS?!?!?
Cut Benefits to Bankers, Not Public Services
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2011/02/21/end-the-theft-with-direct-democracy/
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2013/12/20/do-we-even-need-a-banking-sector-not-any-more/
WESTERN POLITIONS STAND TO MAKE A LOT OF MONEY IF WAR STARTS
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2009/10/12/us-government-making-a-killing-on-war/
AND JUST AS PREDICTED THE ONLY WESTERN ECONOMIC SOLUTION IS WAR
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2010/11/30/is-america-on-the-path-to-permanent-war-beware-false-flags-and-fake-war-for-unreal-profit/
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2013/01/26/death-squads-for-democracy-on-tour-coming-to-a-city-near-you/
WE BROUGHT SHARIA LAW TO THE SECULAR DIRECT DEMOCRACY OF LYBIA!!..and stole 300 tonnes of gold!!
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2011/10/03/libya-a-genocidal-war-crime-that-nato-is-loosing-the-named-shamed-and-blamed/
WE are trying to bring Sharia Law to the secular socialist Syria, even if we have to GAS THEM!!..we need to sell thier nationalised resourses!
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2013/08/31/islamic-terrorist-rebels-admit-chemical-gas-attack-supplied-by-saudi-arabia/
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2013/06/15/us-to-provide-military-aid-to-al-quada-and-other-war-criminalsas-the-war-against-secular-socialism-continues/
IRAN is about its Oil Bourse, it sells oil in non-dollars!!
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2009/09/09/iranian-oil-bourse-the-real-reason-for-war-with-iran/
http://cuthulan.wordpress.com/2013/06/22/america-is-running-the-worlds-largest-terrorist-operation-experts-on-the-left-and-the-right-agree/
Look out for any excuse for a Western triggered smash and grab!
A war will get the population behind the centralised power again, it means draconian emergency laws, it means making a lot of money!
for a centralised authority polition ,it looks like a good and the only way out!
EAST OR WEST BEWARE YOUR LYING POLITIONS
and others that beat the drums of war!!
[This comment was automatically held for moderation by the software because it contains 12 or more links.]
It is also immaterial what I and others think about Ukraine and Crimea. The powers-that-be, that is the EU, the US, the UN, Russia, NATO etc will do as they decide. Just hope we don’t have any more real wars, apart from the current war of words that is.
Uzbek in the UK 21 Mar, 2014 – 11:39 pm
I can’t really add much to what Macky and Sofia Kibo Noh have said. I think, as with your support for the Timoshenko and NATO-backed illegal coup in Ukraine, you are blind to any alternative points of view becasue of your hatred for all things Russian. When I believe I caught ESLO and Resident Dissident sock-puppeting one another and questioned how this might be achieved while giving different IP addresses I was diagnosed as being ‘paranoid’ by somebody who clearly has no medical background as a slur. Being diagnosed as MAD is probably even more insulting. The truth of 9/11 is what is being covered up by the United States in its pursuit of world domination. You get it in privately-made western documentaries too. People, especially relatives, want to know what the US is covering up, but they, like their puppet ‘government’ in the Ukraine, do not believe in inquiries in case the truth gets out. This is Russia Today, one of the better news channels. I agree it has bias but then sensible questions asked should be addressed whoever asks them.
http://xposethereal.com/russia-today-declares-911-was-an-inside-job.html
I should have added too that Dr Resident Dissident also blamed my paranoia on why I hold such outrageous conspiracy theories like that linked in my last comment.
Back to Ukraine. Does anyone know about OCSE whose ‘observers’ have not been given entry to Crimea? I know nothing about them. Is it another faceless EU NATO-linked organization.
Their areas of interest.http://www.osce.org/where/108301
You can probably guess who’s behind it Mary.
http://www.osce.org/who/108210
Participating States
The Organization comprises 57 participating States that span the globe, encompassing three continents – North America, Europe and Asia – and more than a billion people.
Am I the only one here who finds Macky’s twisting of Uzbek’s words (which are written in his second language) and his constant bullying somewhat unseemly.
While Macky is on the subject of massacres perhaps he might wish to acknowledge those undertaken by Milosevic’s thugs on the Kosovans well before the NATO action, which he previously glossed over/ignored in his usual one sided analysis. I also wonder if he shares the view of his hero Galloway that the collapse of the Soviet Union was the biggest catastrophe of his life.
Mary, it’s a US-led attempt to f**k up former Soviet-allied countries under the pretence of making them more secure. About as secure as the twin towers if you ask me.
http://osce.usmission.gov/usandosce.html
“Back to Ukraine. Does anyone know about OCSE”
Please read Craig’s thoughts about them and their report on Yanukovych’s election on an earlier thread.
“This is Russia Today, one of the better news channels.”
That just happens to give a platform to neo Nazis
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/03/deconstructing-putin/comment-page-2/#comment-447931
Thank you Mary for the Paul Craig Roberts link, it perfectly complements this Robert Parry article;
http://consortiumnews.com/2014/03/16/mainstream-us-media-is-lost-in-ukraine/
(h/t to glenn_uk over at Squonk)
John Goss
Your latest accusation against me really is ridiculous – my comment was quite clearly about you being paranoid in relation to your claim of my having 2 computers and ISPs and inferring that I was in the pay of someone who put my handle on the computer – it was not a diagnosis of your general mental condition. There is a difference which you may or may not appreciate.
Have you noticed how they always use diversionary tactics? Instead of arguing against the content of Russia Today’s demolition of the US government propaganda, RD. Do not be distracted. If you are going to engage it/them. Make it/them answer. You’ll be lucky if you get them to address. Here are three other links (western) which together show there should be an inquiry into 9/11. As ever it is the victims who are looking for answers.
Aaron Russo’s interview with Alex Jones (not the singer/actress) is a good place to start because Aaron was Jewish (he was probably dying from cancer when he did this interview. It is short.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZjKKUEHTKk
Then there is General Wesley Clark’s interview. It is even shorter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LTdx1nPu3k
As to the evidence. It lasts much longer but is well worth watching.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAAztWC5sT8
Perhaps Sofia and those interested in the Crimean Tatars might like to give their thoughts on the leader of the Crimean Tatars not being allowed entry into the Crimea. Or is this just another abuse of minority rights by Putin that they will wilfiully ignore?
Have you noticed how they always use diversionary tactics?
I think you will find that I raised the question of neo Nazis on Russia Today last night – so it is you who is employing diversionary tactics or just being so arrogant to think that you can dictate the terms of the debate. BTW I didn’t notice that this was a 911 thread – throw a diversion and then accuse others who don’t respond of employing diversionary tactics, you’ll be accusing me of hypocrisy next.
Perhaps Putin should worry more about the Nazis and racists at home that seem to flourish under his regime
http://www.interpretermag.com/xenophobia-in-russia-at-an-all-time-high-experts-say/
Resident Dissident
22 Mar, 2014 – 10:30 am
Sorry RD it is you again doing the same trick. You said it was due to my paranoia that it was no wonder I believed in conspiracy theories. ‘Conspiracy theory’ is a ridiculous term anyway when applied to an alternative argument. You would do well to get some alternative points of view instead of trotting out the same nonsense, comment after comment. Address the issue! Put up or shut up!
I think everyone should pressure Resident Dissident about his views on 9/11. Considering 85% of Americans do not believe the government story. He’s so full of himself but if you try to pin him down on a particular issue he diverts.
Resident Dissident, do you believe the official story of 9/11.
Orlov reposts a Ukrainian’s view here. A month old and rather long-winded, but, given what has transpired since writing, bursting with food for thought.
http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/shock-over-ukraine.html#more
John. 11 23am
You are very sweet and patient with RD.
You know what it is for.
You’d have more luck arguing with a Pepsi machine.
10.33
Thanks Sofia, I know I’m not alone in this. How was your walk? The dogs took me for a two mile jog. I’m knackered, but getting knackered was all done under a beautiful sky, which has turned a little threatening now.
“You said it was due to my paranoia that it was no wonder I believed in conspiracy theories.”
No I didn’t – I said “You really are quite paranoid – no wonder you fall for conspiracy theories so easily.” this was in response to various theories you had put forward about myself. I did not diagnose you as being medically paranoid as you are claiming somewhat ridiculously.
Yes I believe Al Quaeda was responsible for 9/11, I also don’t believe that the Rothschilds control the world – but I am not going to debate these subjects with you yet again – now could you get back to the subject of this thread rather than playing diversionary and hypocriticalgames.
Sofia 11.33 typo.
So Sofia what are your views on Neo Nazis being given a platform on RT, Racism within Putin’s Russia and Putin’s banning of the Crimean Tatar leader from the Crimea, despite saying he was going to respect the rights of Crimean Tatars earlier in the week. Or are you also just an object incapable of rational argument?