I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
Mary
24 Mar, 2014 – 11:52 am as Official Resident “Loony” (thank you yet again clever James) and so speaking as an expert, I can state unequivocally the answer to your question is “Yes”.
As has been pointed out many times an aircraft “falling” or descending from 35K leaves a distinctive radar trace. We are told this didn’t happen in this case, but that radar contact was simply lost and the plane “disappeared”. If reliable this would offer only two explanations, other than it being out of radar range which has not been suggested, which is the plane exploded and disintegrated at its cruising height or radar coverage was otherwise interfered with which is possible but only with highly sophisticated military assets.
Clearly Malaysian authorities either believed the plane had ditched off Vietnam, or wanted everyone to believe it had ditched there, or they wouldn’t have initiated extensive search at that location and maintained it for several days. The absence of any sea debris supported the later story.
So now the question is at what point and why did they change their opinion that the plane had not crashed there, and critically did they maintain their earlier opinion even when in possession of information that the plane had survived and “merely” changed course?
It may be assumed, even by fools such as me, that a plane on a totally unscheduled route, carrying out crazy manoeuvres (up to 35K; climb to 45K; roughly a 270 degree change in direction; dropping to 5K; then a further 270 degree change north or south) to name but a few, would attract attention, particularly when said MH370 had broken all the rules and turned off coms and transponder. From that point everyone civil and military would be “on their toes”, looking for it.
Two days elapse before the information available to the state is made available to the public, and area of search is moved. Of course the new search would only be any good if the plane had ditched, but as it had survived the first alleged catastrophic incident this had become far less likely, and there was no hard evidence to support it. Indeed quite the opposite: the Seychelles sighting and satellite “pings” pointed to it still being up at least FIVE HOURS after it was said to have “disappeared”.
Clearly this presents a major difficulty for who ever was in charge of the thing – terrorist or state – because they now have two options. Either they question the reliability of the “pings” as indicator of plane’s survival or they have to invent a different ditch scenario. Because of the time-frame this has to be in some remote area.
It amuses me that the experienced pilot “James”, so full of technical jargon and know-how, presumably to impress the gullible like me, goes along so easily with a course off Australia. The alternative north west would have taken it over land masses and radar of the countries involved and with no trace it has to be ruled out doesn’t it? So the barren wastes of the southern ocean it has to be then with not a snowball chance in hell of anything being found. Problem solved!
He seems to believe a suicide mission is the most likely. Have you ever heard of a suicide taking so long without a gesture, without a statement or demand. The idea is quite preposterous. As he says if this was merely a death dive by the captain why all the complicated survival anti-detection flying and for so long?
So back to the initial conundrum of who took control of the plane and how. To do all that highly strange manoeuvring the auto pilot would have to have been disengaged for sure. This would either require sophisticated piloting or sophisticated computer takeover not to mention the inbuilt systems we have discussed to prevent it.
If the former, it rules out any hypothesis of pilots physically or mentally disabled in any way. They would have to be top of their game throughout. If they were in control it indicates malign intent or why would they not have raised the alarm? Or were they following pre-planned instructions imposed by government diktat? Neither of these seems likely.
So by a process of elimination, however unlikely it seems, the remaining option becomes the only alternative, and also by extension that the search in the Southern Ocean is similarly a waste of time and money. Needless to say all news outlets concentrate on it, and merely replicate the official output, without a question or challenge. This uses up time, always helpful as other news events eventually take over top spot, and distracts attention from more sensible and searching questions. It is what we have come to expect isn’t it?
Tim V’s comment and the one following are relevant in the light of the Malaysian PM’s statement today. Details of Inmarsat.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/03/disappearing-aircraft/#comment-447542
Is there the smell of rotten fish in the air???
@Donald
24 Mar, 2014 – 11:58 am
I think many have thought that right from the moment Diego Garcia first appeared in the narrative.
Katie
24 Mar, 2014 – 1:30 pm “Crank” he may be. (I love how these terms of endearment appear) Now to be somewhat more objective do you honestly think that Israel would allow ALL of its diplomatic missions to be shut down by an industrial dispute????????? I would say that was very naive of you if you did. First are all levels of diplomats poorly recompensed? Are they all of one mind? Are they all in the union? Is it a closed shop? Faced with complete closure don’t you think the government would have done something about it? Could they not provide skeleton staffing (no pun intended) Who is maintaining ambassadorial and consular communications? How long will they all be closed?
Israel has a history of prescient withdrawal of its own from calamitous situations but then they always did have a direct line to God.
Tim, have you missed this mornings news ?
They have almost certainly found the plane….. in the southern ocean.
MAS statement
“On behalf of all of us at Malaysia Airlines and all Malaysians, our prayers go out to all the loved ones of the 226 passengers and of our 13 friends and colleagues at this enormously painful time”.
Pax manifest
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/mas/master/en/pdf/Malaysia%20Airlines%20Flight%20MH%20370%20Passenger%20Manifest_Nationality.pdf
227
226 ? or 227 ? souls onboard
James,did you see the announcement was sent to all the family members VIA TEXT & in English !
What sort of government would be that insensitive ?
Answer; the Malaysian Government.
Something well dodgy when ZBC get Frank ‘I was there’ Gardner on to elaborate.
The Indian Ocean Gyre collects debris and rotates anti-clockwise, so for the debris to be where it is found. The crash site, to my mind must be 24 (hours) x 4 4 mph (usually winds here are far stronger than this) x 14 days = Approx 1400 miles west of its current location. This wouldnt be on the arc.
Think of the cost, we need closure, we need to clear the hotels and make the news about the Formula 1 Grand Prix in Kuala Lumpur this weekend.
The “loving” MAS !
Text to the families. It’s unbelievable. It’s actually sick.
The reports initially were that ONE “Mohd Khairu” was onbaord. He was a Flight Mechanic (the media called him a Flight Engineer ?)working in private aviation.
No links to B777’s.
The MAS statement refers to 226 pax and 13 crew.
So ONE “pax” has now become “crew”.
I have been informed that this ONE pax was a “Flight Engineer” for MAS.
Do MAS operate B747-100’s ???
Whatever it is, we appear to have….
2 pilots, 10 F/A’s ….and 1 “Flight Engineer”.
Straw.
I totally agree about the cost , especially as Malaysian airlines are in financial trouble, this must a great strain on them.
TWO things that strike me….
ONE there now appears to be a “MAS employee” onboard.
Nothing strange about a “crew ticket” or even a “deadhead”.
But in these circumstances ?
TWO they have “confirmed” that the aircraft ended up in the South Indian Ocean, thus negotiating the “air defence” of both Indonesia (mainland) and India (Campbell Bay, Nicobar)….and they didn’t “see” DH370 ?
and one little observation for Chevaline watchers: did you notice that when the spokeswoman for the Malaysian government was asked why she thought the families of Chinese missing, suspected her Government was dissembling, she replied that she wished to be diplomatic but it was probably down to the expectations of the Chinese to their own government, and expecting no better from more liberal nations like her own. It was down to “cultural misunderstandings” – precisely the same excuse for lack of progress proffered by the French Prosecutor.
Katie
24 Mar, 2014 – 3:10 pm No haven’t heard/seen. When I do I feel strangely sea sick. First question is the information reliable? Second question what have they found and is it undeniably from MH370. Third question how did it get there?
I have not forgotten the un-scorched passport of said 9/11 hijacker “found” on New York street. Nor for that matter the rifle left behind in the Dallas Book Depository.
For heavens sake Tim, read the comments above.
Then you should be able to deduce that’s why all the relatives are being flown or invited to fly Australia.
Katie….
I just “flash by”. It is far easier.
He doesn’t “debate” or even “argue with passion”.
One would say, he’s just a lone fart…ranting !
@Jon
Could you just delete comments by the poster TimV.
Here is a discussion with regard to Malaysian Airlines Flight MH370.
If you read back, this poster appears to be unwilling/unable to discuss this topic.
Tim V 2;53pm. You are a bit unfair to James on the “suicide” idea. He did not actually maintain it’s true and raises the same doubts as you do, and as we all do. Six hours to Suicide – that’d be one for the psychologists books all right. The strangest profile of a suicide, ever.
I ask the same question too, as many commenters in The Guardian have – a pilot executes complicated maneouvers and is in full control of the plane up to and including a sharp turn south (that’s the 182 deg james showed on the map). that pretty much rules out the hypoxia theory (cf THe Wire) theory of electrical fire. So what’s left, if we are to believe the plane made that route? only a crazy suicide, and that is indeed – crazy.
I raised the possibility above that we should not be so ready and willing to believe that the inmarsat data provided were god’s truth. After all, if we are willing to doubt any and all, that should be thrown into the ‘any” pot.
And along with everybody else, I am also struck by the strange non-availability 9to the public at least) of any data from US satellites and/or radars. beggers credulity alright. Why the strange reticence, one might ask?
Marlin, yes, I believe there has to be collusion here on the route the plane took.
Yes I think we should believe MH370 has been found in the southern ocean because that’s where it was finally flown, to be ditched.
I shall be very interested to hear if they find any bodies there though.
Marlin and Katie
Oddly (and this is at “cruise altitude” in the last 15 years there have been “more” suicide attempts than tech failures. (at “cruise”)
One airline pilot was “released from duty” because he admitted tendencies. In one flight he actually relieved himself as he wanted to “push the stick forward”.
It is “serious stuff”. Most pilots (Company Pilots) will not admit this.
I am single. I fly a GV (small private jet) and work for a single employer (holding three crews *2x pilots (both Captains) and 2x F/A’s.
That is a “hell of a lot” for one aircraft. (Duty and relief with one crew “off”).
He is Arab. I consider myself “very lucky indeed”.
Company politics in the “Big Airlines” is MASSIVE.
katie, the Indian ocean – that’s where the US said the plane was to be found way back when. That’s probably just after it was ditched there, as you say. I think though that perhaps they had run into some issues with the “ditching”.
Don’t know about the bodies. That’d be kind of ghoulish.
If what some of us suspect is true (a deliberate diversion by whoever, for whatever, with passengers as “unfortunate” collaterals) then it marks a major escalation in the PTYB’s brazeness. They must be feeling pretty confident, by now.
Perhaps that is one of the [only] two connections to Chevaline – an increasing trajectory of brazeness, and the cowing of the media. The PTB’s basically stopped fearing the “peasants”. they got them well under control now (or so they believe) using the subservient media mouthpieces. The overall trajectory is hard not to notice. The complete subjugation of the western media on the MH370 case is really hard not to notice, – and that includes just about ALL the major western media outlets. It’s like all the reporters all over the western MSM stopped being curious en-masse and agreed not to ask any difficult questions.
Some of these ‘difficult’ questions are asked in forums like this and the comment sections of various papers. In fact, the disconnect between readers and headline writers has become a canyon. Clearly, people here on this thread are not the only ones disbelieving the official line. We only differ in how much imagination we are willing to use in offering alternative theories.
As for myself, I am getting a bit suspicious of those all-too-definitive Inmarsat data, which now conclusively place the plane in that remote part of the Indian ocean, well away from any potential landing spots. How convenient!
And Marlin
“Six hours to Suicide” is a real concern.
Either he was “really mad”. Or it’s “terrorism we have not seen before”.
If the latter, there needs to be a BIG rethink on “what is going on in the world”, because the PLO, the IRA, Al Q, et al ….has just been “side stepped” with the “everyone with a grudge against something” brigade !
Ben
Its simples !
Chevaline stays on Chevaline (until linked).
Is that a problem ?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/news/10719304/How-British-satellite-company-Inmarsat-tracked-down-MH370.html
I see “james” is up to his old tricks. I always regard his personal accolade that I must have got something right. He was exactly the same on the Chevaline thread. He always tries mockery, then abuse, then attempts at censoring, not extending to himself of course. So so OBVIOUS.
Marlin yes, I find it extraordinary that ‘journalists’ were so compliant with the official story, not one of them followed up on the Maldive sightings , but more importantly nor did they ask why nothing was picked up on radar by the biggest & most sophisticated observation post in the area, Diego Garcia.
That is just farcical
Yes they will eventually, maybe, but what they’ve done is given DG time to settle & become an old story.
Wow… that’s great Ben.
And “what” to this conversation, would you like to add ?
Beware Ben. I like debate. But with idiots…. I bite !
[Ben’s comment has been deleted. This reply will be removed soon as it is now “orphaned”]
Ah Tim… then (my advice) why not trickle off to the Chavaline debate ?
You just love being abused ?
I think the dearth of facts should initiate a discussion of ‘cui bono’ rather than the verbose minutiae of what species of flea leaves droppings in rat-scat.
There is a lot of air for historical musings of past practices in mysterious events which can be speculated upon. It beats the distractions emerging from those salient facts we are allowed to see.
The biggest benefactor of the Malaysia crash is the USA as it gave black eyes to Kuala Lumpur and Beijing while it is not suspected of being behind the sabotage, like it was not when the electrical system of Asiana Flight 214 was knocked out by fires in the passenger cabin before the landing which the pilots miraculously prevented from becoming another massacre which would have given Beijung an even bigger black eye.