I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
How about the Freescale 20? Key persons involved in tech (electronic warfare) on their way to China.
The murder of hundreds to cover the murder of a few targets, like the Beirut CIA chief who just happened to be on his way to the US, dies in the mysterious Lockerbie case.
Trowbridge/Ben, I wholeheartedly concur.
I have said from the beginning that in my view this is an American hit.
The loss of the Freescale 20 was the biggest personal losses to Kuala Lumpur and Beijing, and there might have been even more important losses to the two countries.
But the loss of any Chinese or Malays are a big loss to the two countries because their relatives are going bananas now over what happened to their loved one.
And mentioning the downing of the Pan Am flight is quite apt, but it was the result of dire differences within the CIA where its investigators of Iran-Contra dealings in Lebanon, especially that of Matt Gannon, ran afoul of Syrian arms dealer al-Kassar who managed to get a briefcase bomb on board at Frankfurt to stop them.
@Marlin 24 Mar, 2014 – 4:57 pm
“I am also struck by the strange non-availability (to the public at least) of any data from US satellites and/or radars. beggers credulity alright. Why the strange reticence, one might ask?
The reason the search shifted to the southern end of the Inmarsat arc — the current location — is given by the Malaysians as:
“FRIDAY, MARCH 14
– The hunt spreads west to the Indian Ocean after the White House cites unspecified “new information” that the jet may have flown on after losing contact.”
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/specialreports/mh370/news/timeline-the-hunt-for/1042818.html
One theory is the US couldn’t release how they knew this without revealing the capabilities of their spying, especially to the Chinese.
Alternate theory would be China and even France (quelle horreur) have better satellites.
Trowbridge;
Yes, they are different in intent, but not in scale or strategy. My only point is terrorism is usually the default mechanism for the public, and key people exploit that superficial explanation.
Even with Lockerbie we had evidence, on the ground. Perhaps that strategy of leaving any evidence, at all, is cutting it too thin for promulgating the narrative, but they certainly only see it as a bother to deal with conspiracy theorists. They have better things to do than deal with evidentiary questions.
NR –
“One theory is the US couldn’t release how they knew this without revealing the capabilities of their spying, especially to the Chinese.”
I can’t imagine that the Chinese don’t have a pretty good idea what those capabilities are, and where they are located. I see no harm to American intel in revealing that they at least can see ‘objects’ floating in the ocean like the chinese and french can. Especially if the french – the question is then – who can’t?
“Alternate theory would be China and even France (quelle horreur) have better satellites.”
now that would be something, wouldn’t it? the waste in the US aerospace industry is legendary – may be that wehereas they treat spy satellites like corporate welfare, someone forgot to put a few more up that can stare down the indian ocean?
And then, there’s that other option Katie brings up and I am beginning to lean towards – an American hit, followed by a deliberate “ditch”. In this scenario, America is, alas, quite the competent agency, though alas to nefarious ends and with little concern for some “collaterals”.
How will we know which is which?
Simple – just like Chevaline – watch for the cover-up details as they emerge in the next few weeks. Look for subtle contradictions, walk-backs and bizarre psychological theories of pilot suicide. Or even more bizzare theories of the automatic aircraft controls suddenly becoming sentient (that would be the first indication of a breach of Weil’s singularity) and doing a little ‘demonstration”.
Just in case, let’s not forget to be nice to the “machines”.
Couple more items I find interesting among the non-reactions and non-disclosures:
There were a couple of Ukrainian passengers on the flight, and one Russian, I believe. Bluebird, brought up some interesting background about two of them. I especially liked the Chabbad jewish follower who was into deep sea diving. These details were given up-thread, i believe.
Strangely, we hear nothing from Russia either – or Ukraine 9though there were some condolences from Israel’s Chabad community).
I think everyone should go and look at that flight map provided by james – I think he is right about the likelihood of that 182 deg turn. The plane must have carefully skirted the indonesian air force radars, in which case, there’s no choice but to see intent in that sharp southerly turn.
Unless that turn never happened…..despite whatever we are being told about “pings”.
PS – reading my comment over I see i’m beginning to sound and even write like James. Now that’s a concern….
May be some cross interference/information leakage in the Matrix?
“I can’t imagine that the Chinese don’t have a pretty good idea what those capabilities are, and where they are located. I see no harm to American intel in revealing that they at least can see ‘objects’ floating in the ocean like the chinese and french can. Especially if the french – the question is then – who can’t?”
The worst thing (in their estimation) is to verify what is only an educated guess.
Did anyone notice this person lurking in the background at the endless ‘press conferences’ at which little info was provided?
Dr. Hugh Dunleavy serves as Head of Network, Alliance & Planning and Director of Commercial at Malaysian Airline System Bhd. Dr. Dunleavy served as Executive Vice President of Strategy and Planning at Westjet Airlines Ltd. since November 1, 2009. Mr. Dunleavy served as an Executive Vice President of Commercial Distribution of Westjet Airlines Ltd. since September 7, 2006. He joined WestJet in January 2005 as Vice-President, Revenue. He quickly introduced changes to both the revenue management and network planning strategies resulting in significant improvements to WestJet’s financial performance indicators including an increase in load factor, yield and revenue per available seat mile. He has been working in the airline industry for over 25 years and has a solid reputation for delivering high quality results. Prior to joining WestJet, he held senior management positions at PROS (Passenger Revenue Optimization Systems), Star Alliance and Lufthansa Systems. Ever the academic, Mr. Dunleavy has also held the position of Professor of Operations Management at the John Molson School of Business at Concordia University. He has a Ph.D. in Theoretical Physics with an undergraduate degree in Physics from Sheffield University in the UK.
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/people/person.asp?personId=29094706&ticker=WJA:CN
It is anyway grossly insensitive of Malaysia to have Ecclestone’s junk roaring around a race track.
Ecclestone – now there’s another story.
Bernie Ecclestone wins damages case after F1 deal bribe
Bernie Ecclestone: “If I was unreliable… I’m lucky to be as successful as we have been”
A High Court judge has rejected an £85m damages claim against Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone but said he did pay a bribe over a sale of F1 shares.
Mr Justice Newey found Mr Ecclestone had made a “corrupt” deal. And he had been not “reliable or truthful” during the case in London, the judge added.
But he said there had been no financial loss to German media group Constantin Medien. It said it would appeal.
Mr Ecclestone, 83, said he was “relieved” at the ruling.
“I find it impossible to regard him as a reliable or truthful witness”
Mr Justice Newey High Court
Mr Ecclestone is the chief executive of F1, and has ruled the sport for almost four decades.
/..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26273031
NR
Find way to send me your skpe and I will explain…..
A. Why the US has said that as….
1 they are mad
2 they don’t understand “radar” (both Prim and Sec).
Marlin, whilst I believe the US were the perpetrators I’m struggling with their motive.
Was it to ‘show’ the Chinese what their capable of.
Or because they didn’t want the Freescale passengers in Beijing ,possibly because they knew too much?
Or,had they found that some of them were indulging in espionage & passing secrets to China ?
Or was it purely an experiment with their new remote technology that went wrong ?
Remember they had just announced a breakthrough .
‘AUSTIN, Texas–(BUSINESS WIRE)–Mar. 3, 2014– Freescale Semiconductor (NYSE: FSL), a global leader in radio frequency (RF) power transistors, today announced the availability of 11 new commercial RF power LDMOS products that can meet the requirements of U.S. defines electronics applications.’
Was it the same principle as killing off the Iranian scientists ?
Is this Jeremy Clarkson individual for real? A psychopath.
http://home.bt.com/images/jeremy-clarkson—twitter-136388727823703201?v=140324161335
It’s well past the time for the BBC to stop enriching him.
Katie
24 Mar, 2014 – 4:46 pm to date I seen nothing more than “white objects”, some dimensional stuff and wooden pallets. I haven’t heard a thing that any of this is definitely from or part of MH370. In fact I am rather surprised on such scant evidence the relatives have been told everyone is dead. They may be, but not necessarily in the way that is being promoted. We have had far too much proven deceit regarding mass murder in the last decade to accept anything at face value without convincing evidence. There are millions of good Americans leading good lives, but do I trust the American Government any longer in such matters. No. Other governments must be judged on their merits. You are clearly more easily persuaded Katie which is fine by me. Its every man (or woman) for themselves. But what convinces you that the debris is definitely MH370?
Tim
We have to wait and see.
But if they are right (and I believe they are) can you eat a hat online.
Your “evidence” is almost “all” speculation”. (“It wasn’t this…no because”)
May I remind you that TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY SIX people died that night.
They no longer exist.
Some of us are trying to find out “why” this event happened.
Thank God I do not know you Tim….as you’d find Six Foot Three of Northern Irish Jewish fist in your smiley f***wit face
Tim.
A number of things.
1. The Australian pilots have come back each day & given the media negative information on their failure to find debris.
Today they came back in a very different mood & would not talk to anyone, the Captain went straight into debriefing, a sub was sent out to say,more would be explained tomorrow.
2,A hasty press conference was called when one had already been given
3, The Chinese have seen debris, not via satellite but eyes on & are not allowed to speak.
4, All the relatives are to be flown by chartered planes to Oz, tomorrow.
5, The Malaysian PM has said definitively the plane came to its end in the Southern corridor.
6. No survivors.
7,Too many reports of varied shapes & sizes in debris spotted for it to be flotsam.
8, A ship will be there within hours to pick up the first pieces of debris
Nobody needs to be convinced, we shall all have to wait
Crikey James……….. that’s a lot to get into the cockpit……………..LoL !!!
Katie
So correct. You said “Nobody needs to be convinced, we shall all have to wait”.
“Tim” has no technical competence to determine any causal factors whatsoever.
Katie…
It is indeed.
By that I mean “one uniform” and 6 shirts (plus casual wear) is that what you mean !
gulfstreams are “made by Americans” that’s what they tell me. And they fit us “Oirish”…but then again “we’re all Oirish” really !
James, I was thinking of 6ft 3 folding into such a small space.
Katie…
We have do have a “crew rest” area !
And as a “big” private jet….there is room.
And two F/A’s…. and room for them to “put make up on” and “chitter chat”.
Pax wise… Max 4 !
Marlin
24 Mar, 2014 – 4:57 pm “Not to hard on James” is a bit rich compared to what I consider to be the unfair invective he has poured on me. Just the two entries up are sufficient proof I would say. He now opines “He doesn’t “debate” or even “argue with passion” both of which I would say were transparently not the case. “One would say, he’s just a lone fart…ranting !” he adds.
If it is the same James he has “previous” going right back, pouring scorn when valid points have been made. I have always regarded his role in these rooms with a great deal of reservation. For that reason I have no desire to engage with him.
Both here and previously on the Chevaline thread, of which he obviously prefers not to be reminded, he has used his technical knowledge of aeroplanes and flight to confuse rather than clarify and been notable in appearing to challenge yet always coming down on the side of the “official version”. That is just my perception but I think it is supported on this thread as it was on the last.
He virtually never engages with any of the concrete points I have made, either to support or disagree with them. Instead, despite endless entries himself, he labels mine “rants” and seeks to get them deleted. He adopted similar tactics on Chevaline until the absence of contributors obviously persuaded him it was no longer a major threat and worth his time. He kept on Maralyn’s site I believe after they ganged up against me on there, doing what he’s doing here. I have been proved largely right regarding Chevaline. I might be right on this one. Time will tell (or may not) but clearly its not a line he wants to hear.
Perhaps my assessment is just coloured by the personal nature of his attacks on me, although I am certainly not the first he has attacked vituperatively and thereby driven off. It is an obvious strategy. Where it is just a reflection of an aggressive, combative and profane character or something more sinister I wouldn’t like to say. However even a brief review of early contributions will show I am not exaggerating.
I have never ever suggested that contributors were banned, unless breaching rules of decency, assuming people could easily skip what they didn’t want to read. The fact that he resorts to that tactic says it all.
Just a reminder here.
Flight MH370 Mystery. Diego Garcia Suspended All Flights On March 8th for 72 hrs.
‘Notice they have completely erased all posts between March 6th, and March 9th. There is some very weird stuff going on down in creepy Diego Garcia, a place where the US operates completely independant of the constitution.
Edit to add, here is a link to the Diego Garcia Passenger facebook page with the March 8th flight schedule. Notice all other flight schedules throughout the month all had several flights schedules. The fact that no flight were scheduled for 3 days during the time MH370 went missing, all maintenance crew most likely were off on leave.
Great time to sneak in an aircraft.’
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Diego-Garcia-Passenger-Terminal/242934902443795
http://beforeitsnews.com/global-unrest/2014/03/flight-mh370-mystery-diego-garcia-suspended-all-flights-on-march-8th-for-72-hrs-2458394.html
Underground Hangars @ DG.
TimV; I have seen many ‘rational’ experts steer the conversation toward points of detail.
Engineers/pilots often have the tendency toward myopia; failing to see he forest for the trees and ferns
Tim
“He virtually never engages with any of the concrete points I have made, either to support or disagree with them”
I stopped there as I was laughing.
A. The “concrete points I have made” You flatter yourself in delusion.
B. He “never engages”. How could I. You are deluded.
C Nor does he “either to support or disagree with them”
Now I can rip all your “posts” apart, if you so wish ?
But you will sleep a very “aware” and yet “unhappy” man/or woman, I know not what gender you are.
If you wish to “engage”with your “self perceived” wit or “wisdom” (so sadly lacking), then do continue.
I do laugh at your “James is this or James is that”. The truth, be it not, is you have little idea what “James” is ?
Continue dear chap. As I will continue to tear you apart.
Enjoy….as it is my pleasure.
Timothy…..over to you. To “try” ! Xxxx
I await. I am more than happy.
Tim V (and also James). FWIW, I seriously disapprove of any and all personal attacks on other posters, no matter how annoyed one is by their posting. I’ve seen posts from people I had serious issues with, sometimes because they were beyond the pale, or off to never never land, or just too accusatory or maligning in tone. Yet, even when there are posters that in the past raised serious issues due to some nasty comment or other, I am willing enough to start afresh when their posts give good reason to do so. At least that’s my approach.
I think it is silly for people who will likely never have or will know each other in person to allow themselves to become overly riled up due to disagreement about events or interpretations or manner of presentation. None of us know who is posting here for what reason other than what they themselves choose to reveal. Some may have agendas we know nothing about and some just may appear as if they have an agenda. Some are more prone to personalizing or emotionalizing responses, others stay more aloof. And many just want to express their thoughts without engaging further.
My one concern is to keep the forum both engaging and open to different takes. james has contributed some interesting insights from his flying experience which come in handy when discussing a “disappearing aircraft”. Tim V contributed not a few interesting approaches and analysis of possibilities – which are of definite interest to those inclined to go in depth into speculations when facts are scarce. I see no reason individuals cannot just ignore that which does not engage them and address those comments that do.
Another example – I did not always agree with katie on some things in the past 9especially concerning Chevaline). but here i find myself in agreement on a few things. may be in the future opinions/approaches will diverge again. So what? it’s only an online forum – any of us can disappear tomorrow with none the wiser, right?
The only thing I may resent BTW, is if it turns out some get paid to post while I don’t. now that would be annoying, kind of. hopefully I’ll never know.
And Tim V, if you could, please just move on. There are plenty of serious shenanigans going on in the world right now, many perpetrated by evil neocons, resulting in untold loss of life and civilization. And many more are being planned as we speak. In light of that, a few onlinespats don’t matter a whole lot, do they?
…and after 5 paragraphs (my Lord he has learnt to use paragraphs now) in jumps lovely Ben.
Jump in Ben, I will try to amuse.
Are use “engineers and pilots” fail to see the wood for the trees !
Yet…we DO actually give our “professional” view. Bad as it maybe, we try…and your profession dare I ask ?
Cake Maker ? Butcher ? A layer of bricks ?
All noble professions. Yet you do not state “from where” you enlightened views come from ? Strange !
At least “I” am proud of what I have done
….the money helps to, but that’s a “given”. !Ho Ho !
Ben 9.52 pm
The underground hangars @ DG are huge enough to conceal B-52 bombers which are 49 metres long with a 56 metre wingspan.
https://www.google.com/search?q=Underground+Hangars&oq=Underground+Hangars&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&espv=210&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8#q=Underground+Hangars+diego+garcia
However, a Boeing 777-200ER is 63.7 metres long with a 60.9 metres wingspan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777
So maybe, probably big enough but not necessarily so.
Marlin…..
I tried.
NR (respected) and others joined in the debate.
Katie inited her friend along.
Then Ken Sore(that’s as far as I get with him) started his “odd rants”.
Then along came Tim (no experience, but just wants to “say his bit”). WHY !
So this thread is ruined ! Well done Ken and Tim ! (and Ben)
No “f*cking idea” but they’ll say it anyway !
Still…. I’ll now close my “ideas”…and for the “hell of it” take the p*ss out of Tim ! 14 days off. Why not !