I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
James
24 Mar, 2014 – 5:35 pm says: “Either he was “really mad”. Or it’s “terrorism we have not seen before”. If the latter, there needs to be a BIG rethink on “what is going on in the world”, because the PLO, the IRA, Al Q, et al ….has just been “side stepped” with the “everyone with a grudge against something” brigade!”
Clearly no other options being considered.
10.23pm Tim
You ask a question ! “clearly no others considered” ?
Erm….. I try to do this as simply as possible for you
Many years ago….
The people in the big towns
Were only effected by the news they saw
Now as the world “got bigger”
The people in the big towns have to think a bit harder.
Sometimes the people in the big towns …onlt saw the big town they lived in
But as the people grew they realised there was many big towns….
Are you a “fruit cake” Tim ?
katie 9:47 pm. Thanks for that link on DG flight manifest. That’s really more coincidence than some of us are willing to believe.
I’l go back to the link on that flight path provided by james, which I think is quite revealing. Indeed, given the need to skirt the indonesian and Indian radars, the flight direction just before the turn south makes practically a beeline to DG. This trajectory, I believe was drawn independent of the “pings” i assume – other than that final position, supposedly at 7;11am.
I’ll reiterate what I said earlier – we cannot totally rely on what Inmarsat data is provided to us, since the company is not exactly independent of other entities. Neither is MA. neither is Australia.
But here’s the thing – we still need a good theory for how the aircraft could get to DG, who would fly it there (pilot, hijacking, remote, etc). If it did fly there first, it wouldn’t be so difficult to prevail upon Inmarsat to release a few ‘additional” pings, or alter the ones they have. certainly not so difficult to add “new” analysis as part of the cover-up. It appears the aircraft may have had just enough fuel to get to DG, assuming not too much was wasted in the various manoeuvers on route. Or, it could have refueled on the way somewhere?
With this theory, it is easy enough to imagine flying the craft to the final resting place in the ocean or perhaps just selected parts thereof? no idea what happened to the passengers in this scenario or the crew. Way too morbid to contemplate though i doubt any are alive.
Of course, like everyone else i have no idea what the motive could be. Could be the gold, as BB says or the FS passengers or something else we have no clue about. In the meantime, let’s watch to see how the cover-up spin is going and their feeble attempts to somehow mollify the relatives.
One more thing – China. Something tells me they were not quite on whatever happened. If they are the injured party in all this there’s bound to be repercussions.
“Ever since Putin clamped down on the Oligarchs…..”
I do LOVE how Kenneth (what a name) starts a post.
Straight in there with “bollocks”.
And still posting an avatar of a dead guy ! Incredible people let him do it.
I may get an avatar of a dying Kenya HIV invested mother. Just to keep up the “oddness” of everything.
Marlin
My “last” post on logic (then I’m just going to take the p*ss out of Tim !) so please listen….
This may have been the act of a suicidal man.
There is no proof of this. There is only circumstantial evidence.
Someone flew that a/c.
Someone knew the waypoints around Indonesia
Someone was knowledgeable enough to get behind another flight at VAMPI
This effects YOU !
If someone was radicalised enough (recall the “beheading” in the UK) then MH370 has changed everything.
I “hope” it was a mad pilot. I “think” it was a radicalised one.
Look all you like at “mad America” they are after all crackers.
…but understand, the world has most surely “changed”.
James,
If you were the ‘pilot’:-
a) Captain Zaharie
b) First Officer Fariq, total flying hours 2700, ?? hrs on a 777-200ER
c) Hijacker – maybe engineer/dead-header
Which of these would fly to Diego Garcia by overflying low over the Maldives and then heading a course for DG, about 650 miles away.
Using up more fuel by flying low over the Maldives seems a big risk unless your earlier suggestion that Malaysian Airlines were trying to save money, but if using Visual Flight Rules necessary.
Sraw….
I’ll look. Hold on.
James
24 Mar, 2014 – 8:51 pm You say: “But if they are right (and I believe they are) can you eat a hat on line. Your “evidence” is almost “all” speculation”. (“It wasn’t this…no because”) May I remind you that TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY SIX people died that night.They no longer exist. Some of us are trying to find out “why” this event happened. Thank God I do not know you Tim….as you’d find Six Foot Three of Northern Irish Jewish fist in your smiley f***wit face”.
What a combination of self-congratulatory, condescending, self-righteous, threatening machismo? Blatently, it and earlier remarks are also very offensive and contrary to what is expected of us here. I think it says all we need to know about the character behind the name. Thank god I don’t fly “James Airlines”.
Last leg is direct in.
Maldives would be a “way out” hold.
Impossible. Madness.
You could hold south. No one would see you. But little point
You could go straight in (Max landing weight no issue)
It’s 1560 nm from waypoint NOPEK
Total flight time (from last known) just of 5hrs
Thanks James
I dont know what to think now. The U-turn shown on this link suggests to me a fight in the cockpit:-
http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1062040407&postcount=2273
Timothy
Your getting excited ! Me self-righteous !
Come on now… have you not plagiarised enough peoples comment ?
Timothy, I am not weak you see (I guess you are). Original thought is easy for me.
But you know (I don’t need to say this) you are.
Your deeds speak well.
It’s okay. Some people like you are like that.
I just like to point it out. Maybe because I see a “weak link a the chain” and feel obliged to point it out.
One question… why did you come “here” and start “ranting” ?
Craig has other forums open. You could have gone there ?
Odd don’t you think ? Safety maybe. You’d feel “accepted” ?
Freud would have a “field day” with you !
Straw
Flight Plan at SkyVector.com
Let me kno if you can see it.
That’s GC
Which is pretty much as DI has it
Hardly a day goes by without condescension. It is part of the price we pay for anonymous commentary. As a retired journalist I’ve discovered that objective inquiry leads one down the rabbit hole faster than Alex Jones can pontificate.
Maybe the reason to fly low over the Maldives is to use a mobile if the comms are out in the aircraft.
Lots of ‘ifs’ here but if those witnesses are to be believed.
James,
I dont get the flight plan shown. I think I have seen it copied with route showing just to the NW of Sri Lanka.
“As a retired journalist I’ve discovered that objective inquiry…”
1. journalist
2. objective inquiry
You are kidding me ????? Two “statements” that seldom go together.
Pass me another “Gin and egg” !
Straw
North West of Sri Lanka ?
No one knows (the Indians aren’t saying) but that is way out.
BUT there was a flight that night (168 Emirates ?) that would have followed that route.
Need to check for an EK number.
Katie
24 Mar, 2014 – 8:51 pm – Thanks for fleshing it out a bit. I watched BBC news tonight and the correspondent in Australia stated that there was nothing concrete at the moment to link debris with plane. If correct I hold by my opinion that it seems premature to announce everyone is dead. Maybe they have better info. than the BBC. We can’t know can we? It may well prove it is the remains of the plane but not until the bits have been retrieved will it be established. If it is the location of where it ditched from 35 000 ft there will still be many questions to answer, principal among them how it was possible for a plane to fly for at least 5 hrs, after the alarm was raised, on an unscheduled unusual course, without being detected on any of the radars operating in the area, or space assets, or intercepted by fighter aircraft. If nothing else it will prove to be a case study in awac ineffectiveness that should worry any nation thinking it is protected from air attack.
Then there is the problem with the auto pilot. If proved it was on that southerly track, was it on auto pilot or not. The point being it must have been first over-ridden to do the strange manoeuvres. Was this something that could be executed by the pilot? We are told the auto pilot was fool proof. Is that Boeing’s position or isn’t it? If it is, and it didn’t ditch in the Gulf of Thailand as they obviously wanted everyone to believe, (they even had huge oil slicks there) the only explanation is some other hi-tech/military explanation. The pilots were unable to communicate. If they were in a plane they were unable to control, what could they or the passengers do but become passive victims dependant on whatever fate had been determined for them?
I think its SIA68 Singapore – Dubai that was at FL300, 500′ higher than MH370 for that leg
Marlin
24 Mar, 2014 – 10:10 pm I have always tried to be polite and non-personal on here and elsewhere. I agree with you completely. I would only say it is always easier to remain dispassionate when you are not the one being targeted by insults and threats, which even in the blogosphere are still disturbing. I have known many bullies in my time who use insults and threats to impose their particular view of things. I despise them. Enough said!
“the point being it must have been first over-ridden to do the strange manoeuvres”.
LOL !
“Was this something that could be executed by the pilot?”
L and LOL
“We are told the auto pilot was fool proof”.
So you never want to disengage a/p ! Like “f*ck the weather ahead” !!!!
“(they even had huge oil slicks there) the only explanation is some other hi-tech/military explanation”.
Erm… Oil Tanker flushing its tanks. Google it ! It’s illegal. Thy do it.
“If it is, and it didn’t ditch in the Gulf of Thailand as they obviously wanted everyone to believe”
Makes no sense whatsoever !
“The pilots were unable to communicate”.
What does that even mean ? ACARS was “off” or do you mean “radio” ????
Kinda seems like “someone” had control. At least to program the a/p fli/dir FMC.
Yep…that’s “control” to me !
AND THAT IS THE IDIOT I HAVE TO DEAL WITH.
MEDIA !
“If they were in a plane they were unable to control…..,”
“I have always tried to be polite and non-personal”
Oh come on ! That is a lie !
But to hell with it. I’m not. I think you’re an idiot and will prove it…just so you go to bed crying (and hopefully crying my name !).
“I have known many bullies in my time”
Oddly enough, I haven’t !
I guess the bullies picked on the weak and left me well alone.
Never had an issue.
Seems like you have had though. I wonder why ?
“(they even had huge oil slicks there) the only explanation is some other hi-tech/military explanation”.
I am still laughing at that. Tim must be a Yank. Never left his own door step.
T A N K E R S ! They are BIG ships that carry oil
Straw, thanks for that DavidIcke link. Very interesting discussion going on there and some amazing graphics.
All in all, no one seems to believe the Malaysians – clearly they must have been in a damage control mode, while under pressure from some other government(s). people on DI seem to believe that those last two funny little accidents on MA were a way of sending “just another message”.
That Cosmo99 poster is one fire. here is one thing he found out:
“Parmira is one of the major shareholders for Freescale semiconductors, which had 20 employees on the plane, and also a major shareholder of Inmarsat which is the satellite company that tracked the plane after the tracking devices were shut down.”
I am glad to see there are more people questioning the ownership AND control of that supposedly british company Inmarsat. They have supplied the ONLY indicators that the flight could be in the Indian ocean. I think we should all wonder what or who is pulling the strings.
Also the details provided on some goings on at DG in late February are interesting.
It’s a good forum, I must say. For the conspiratorially minded that is.
James; someone questioned your Authority!!!
Imperious Rex !!!
Marlin,
I’ve been following here, Icke and PPrune but I had no internet for 2 days and Pprune is hard to catch up with so I only dip in there now and again. A lot of non-pilots have been posting there without reading any previous posts and mods have been struggling to filter out all the crap.
Well, time to call it a night. I wonder what ‘evidence’ they will have found by the morning.
Katie
24 Mar, 2014 – 9:47 pm that is a fascinating and probably significant fact you have uncovered there. It is only when all the little pieces are put together that the picture emerges. I believe we are living through a truly dangerous phase in the world’s history and the bereaved Chinese are right to scream that they don’t trust a word that is being told them. I am also sickened by the sycophantic and replicating nature of the worlds press and news outlets. Not one veers from the identical story. Not one examines or challenges what is being put out. Who needs a soviet style propaganda system if the news organs do it of their own volition? And having suggested a theory about British involvement (that may I agree be pure bunkum) we see the British taking centre stage again, using Doppler effect modelling to determine that the plane actually ended up in the southern ocean, one just wonders like Galileo, they were made to recant, having been shown (metaphorically speaking) the instruments of torture. Note again Obama ditched Britain for Holland though he still sat next to Cameron. As with Falklands in matters of spyware, and spies generally, the first cousin relationship is neither consistent or smooth. If this is a false flag in the making rather than just a hijacking to prevent expertise getting to China (Israeli put out the idea not me!) then part of that has to be the pretence of the plane crashing somewhere it can’t be found. If just to stop the expertise, then maybe a crash fulfils the purpose but the US could never admit to such a callous act involving innocents. Anyway if they did, it might well be China’s Lusitania. That could even be the mad calculation. Who knows what is going through these people’s minds these days?
Straw 11:31pm – if you look at that skyvector from james, you’ll see that at the point before the plane inexplicably turned south (the 182 deg) it was on a heading straight for Diego Garcia. Not only that, but the distance to DG appears to be SHORTER than the distance to that so-called “final” point at the ocean. Obviously, there is ONLY Inmarsat’s word on that infamous “arc” (well displaced from the debris reported, but hey, that’s just winds and current, right?).
Question – why on earth should we believe whatever we hear from this one company that seems to have primarily US ownership, including some group with CIA ties?
Marlin
Because the AAIB did the calculation…but then again they would (no links).
PS. I support “no one”.
I’d like to know what was on the cargo manifest.
I’d also like to know the other MAS pilots view of the skipper.
This “crash” is clearly “murder”. So who did it and why.