I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
James 10:46 pm – the “radicals” we are all worrying about here and everywhere are the neocon directed US policy that seems to have taken the state department hostage. These creatures (call them, just to be current – the Nuland/kagan axis) are the largest danger to the world – which includes the US. These crazies will not hesitate using Al Qaeda jihadists in Syria, neo-fascists in the Ukraine or gang members in Venezuela to achieve their nefarious regime change goals.
No one believes a single word of the propaganda emanating from the main stream press. It’s like spirit of the old Pravda took over the NYT, WaPo, The Guardian, le Monde, der Spiegel and every MSM candian rag there is. This is the most serious threat the civilized people the world over confront. The sense of that danger is what animates conspiracy boards like DI and many of the posters here, whatever truth their speculations may or may not hold.
It is of course, extremely difficult to opinionate on any event when one can’t believe the officials in charge. As is well illustrated here. Eventually though, the fog will lift some and, just like Chevaline, the outlines of at least that which didn’t happen will become clearer, as we learn to discern the more believable accounts from those that can be dismissed. In Chevaline, it’s the useful idiot Eric that had to be ignored. Here, we are still learning who to dismiss…except as a waypoint for where they don’t want us to go.
James, 12;22 am – yes, indeed. It is strange we have heard so little of other pilots’ opinions or impressions of the one you call “the skipper”. Also strange that we can’t seem to get any information on the pilots family; did they move out? was he estranged from the wife or not? what of his children – we have only heard of the daughter in australia who flew back. Surely, at the very least they must be inconsolate – not just because of the finger of possible blame – but the loss must be incredible.
And I agree about the cargo. problem is – if there was something there that could provide motive or scasus belie, you can rest assured we’ll never hear about it, would we?
Marlin
Your 12.25 agree with. Your 12.31 agree with.
It’s like a “private” war these days it would seem.
This will take ten years to sort out ! (another one).
And by then we’ll all be eating beans in a bunker!
Those are fascinating graphics Straw44berry
24 Mar, 2014 – 11:21 pm particularly the three dimensional depiction of the flight out of KL. Another point it brings out(I made it a while back) the dearth of US forces – just ONE aircraft. How does this correlate with an early report that they had sent ships to the southern ocean. Forbid the thought that they took some debris down there and then pushed off.
“The search for the remains of Malaysia Flight MH370 faces challenges from the elements that may prove insurmountable.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/capital-weather-gang/wp/2014/03/21/raging-winds-gyrating-ocean-currents-pose-malaysia-plane-search-nightmare/
Not just for the current debris search but remember that the specialised deep sea submersibles that would be used in any search for the flight recorder need support ships on the surface and need reasonable conditions to operate safely. I doubt there will be many days they could operate in the Roaring Forties.
If you wanted to pick a spot to make finding the flight recorder almost impossible I think the suspected crash site would be high on the list.
If this was an accident then this was extremely unlucky.
Or if crashed deliberately (by pilot, hijacker or whatever agency) then it suggests to me this was planned in advance and that the intention was that the flight recorder would never be found.
Tim V 12;11 am – looks like we were singing from the same music sheet, regarding the Versailles press throughout the western world. What the heck, one might ask, happened to independent press? how could they all provide such strangely identical account? the same press, mind you, that amusingly keeps excoriating the Chinese press for lack of independence. Am
I seem to be able to recall not so long ago, that there used to be reporters who had questions, who voiced doubts, who did independent investigations. yes, many ended up on the independent blogs, but surely there must be just a few left in the MSM? well, none that i can see and i glance through many of the English language ones.
Downright weird, indeed.
Anyways, i still have that hunch that the Chinese who are emerging as the injured party in all this, will not let things slide quite so easily. They are handling the families in beijing quite differently than they often do other Chinese victims of disaster. letting reporters through, allowing the anguish to be played out in public, gathering them all at a hotel, letting them vent at the Malaysian officials etc. This is like an extreme grievance reality show which i am sure is stoking up resentment all over China. So far, the Chinese authorities are being circumspect, more or less, But they are letting the families do rage. For now.
James
24 Mar, 2014 – 11:50 pm I try my best to resist the temptation but your superciliousness is just irresistible. All your clever put downs are just so obvious. I’ll take just ONE. The oil in the gulf of Thailand. What fool doesn’t know that tankers clean out their tanks at sea. We KNOW its illegal but they still do it. However this was taken by the Malaysians as a significant indicator. OK now say THEY were stupid. Are you qualified to judge? It was being sampled by them to see if it was same fuel as the MH370. Even this is strange. You know why clever clogs? Because aviation fuel is light, readily evaporates and is unlikely to leave a mile plus oil slick (of course) So why were the M’s trumpeting it as an indicator of a crash site EVEN AFTER they knew the plane had turned and gone SW? ps. to my knowledge no one has referred to this even you so two fingers to your plagiarism jibe. (You tried that one in Chevaline as well I remember)
As to your last hearty laugh you obviously haven’t listened to the conversation tape of AF 447 an Airbus A330-200. Or perhaps you have. They over rode the auto pilot and then did everything wrong.
“A minute after the autopilot disconnected, Bonin muttered something odd: “I’m in TOGA, huh?” TOGA stands for Take Off, Go Around. Bonin was apparently so disorientated that he believed he was operating at low altitude, in a similar situation to a pilot having to abort a landing approach before circling for a second attempt. Standard procedure on abandoning a landing is to set engines to full power and tilt the aircraft upwards at 15 degrees. But Flight AF447 was not a few hundred feet above a runway. Within a minute it had soared to 38,000 feet in air so thin that it could climb no more. As forward thrust was lost, downward momentum was gathering. Instead of the wings slicing neatly through the air, their increasing angle of attack meant they were in effect damming it. In the next 40 seconds AF447 fell 3,000 feet, losing more and more speed as the angle of attack increased to 40 degrees. The wings were now like bulldozer blades against the sky. Bonin failed to grasp this fact, and though angle of attack readings are sent to onboard computers, there are no displays in modern jets to convey this critical information to the crews. One of the provisional recommendations of the BEA inquiry has been to challenge this absence.”
Then NOTE THIS. NOTE THE WORDS. NOTE THE WORDS MR PILOT.
“Robert himself was panicking: “We still have the engines! What the hell is happening? I don’t understand what’s happening.” Ninety seconds after the emergency began the captain was back in the cockpit demanding: “What the hell are you doing?” To which both pilots responded: “We’ve lost control of the plane!””
So yes a pilot can disengage auto pilot and make a cock-up of it and LOOSE CONTROL OF THE AIRCRAFT.
However the issue with the Boeing 777 is/was did it or did it not have the tamper-proof auto pilot and in what circumstances can/could a pilot disengage it?
Now perhaps in plain simple language you could answer that one?
Quite agree Marlin
25 Mar, 2014 – 12:12 am. I wait to be convinced about the Southern Ocean. Once the Gulf of Thailand explanation had been blown DG shouts, nay screams! likely destination. (You know this is so Chevaline territory isn’t it?) It is just possible the plane took a slightly indirect route first NW over maldives then down towards DG who knows? Anything is possible one you factor in the initial event.
@Marlin 24 Mar, 2014 – 7:33 pm: “NR – I can’t imagine that the Chinese don’t have a pretty good idea what those capabilities are, and where they are located.”
It’s not only the location but sensitivity/range of passive acoustic sensors for example. Or the US could have an entirely new tech they’re protecting.
Other countries in the area are suspect of Chinese ships in their waters. Russia had a habit of large factory fishing/spy vessels in the vicinity of western war games.
Whatever it is, it gave the US a good indication the plane crashed at sea in that general location and there were no survivors, as opposed to an emergency landing with a chance of people in life rafts.
The White House told Malaysia this on 14 March, and since then has kept an unusually low-profile. Why the delay from 9 Mar to 14 Mar? The thought of MH370 flying so far and to such a remote area was so unlikely that they only examined data in retrospect and then wasted another couple of days with bureaucratic arguing. Or were top-secret Power Point presentations needed to make things understandable for senior pay grades?
Inmarsat’s explanation of selecting the southern arc by analyzing the Doppler Effect sounds reasonable, if it’s true. The big advantage is all experts have the opportunity to explain the effect, imitating the sound of speeding train horns.
Whatever. They’ll eventually come up with a 3/4 convincing explanation which Popular Mechanics sells the majority of the public.
NR, 6:39am:
The timing is indeed interesting, especially of the US delay from 9 to 14th of march, which you brought up.
Now, lets look at this in light of the information brought up here (was it Katie?) that all flights to Diego Garcia were suspended between March 8 and March 10 or 11 (sorry, me too lazy to look up the exact link but this thread is not yet too forbiddingly long, so easy enough to find). Funny, isn’t it? if one were a conspiracy theorist (and me never, ever that!) it would look like just enough time to land a plane, hide whereabouts for a day or so, then figure out how to dispose/move out to sea (say, South Indian ocean somewhere over the rainbow?), whence debris could possibly found some day hence. The 14th to tell the Malaysians which way is south would seem to be about right in such an extreme conspiratorial case, no?
Yes, there were those passengers. And yes, the mind boggles at the thought that the US (which, unfortunately thinks little of blowing off entire wedding parties on the off-chance that there could just be, heaven forbid, a real life terrorist among the guests) could care so little for human life (which incidentally, included ‘just” three Americans, none of whom were state side residents any longer), as to consider them “unfortunate” collaterals.
One thing I do believe the Malaysian authorities: those hapless passengers and crew are no longer.
But here’s the bigger question for you, NR, and us all – just what the heck does it mean that so many in the world (even me!) are willing to accept that America the once-great would be capable of such dastardly deeds? where does such lack of faith in “the greatest democracy on earth” leave us, whereever we live? once upon a time, not so long ago, the mere idea that America would be capable of the most callous banal acts of evil, would be considered preposterous. But not any longer, it seems. And without America-the-good, just who exactly is left? the once great Britain? the illustrious Canadians (who, after all, elected harper)? the incomparable Australians?
Just something to ponder…..
PS my one solace – and refuge – are cat videos. Along with a few other 10’s of Millions (soon to be hundreds). Not that i don’t peek at dog videos now and then….
@katie 24 Mar, 2014 – 8:28 pm: “Mar. 3, 2014 — “Freescale Semiconductor, a global leader in radio frequency (RF) power transistors, today announced the availability of 11 new commercial RF power LDMOS products that can meet the requirements of U.S. defence electronics applications.” Was it the same principle as killing off the Iranian scientists?”
Remember this one from 2012?
“Singapore coroner rules Shane Todd death suicide.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-23198540
“Analysis of the Shane Todd Coroner’s Report: … While not dwelling at this time on the many further anomalies relating to Huawei and IME… had been discussing the GaN (Gallium Nitride) Power Amplifier Project…”
media.wix.com/ugd/213194_a04f1f23c7d6552e616b15ffbc9b3886.pdf
In addition to Iranian scientists we should include on our list of dangerous occupations semiconductor experts and more recently banksters.
Regarding debris (conspiracy)????
A Malaysian Airlines sister airplane Boeing 777-200 was sold to GA Telesis and was then re-registered and sent to Tel Aviv on 4/11/13 where it was stored until …. ??????
http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28416,N105GT-GA-Telesis-php
Malaysian Air 777 manufacturer serial number 28416 registered as 9M-MRI was sold to GA Telesis on 10/21/2013 and now registered as N105GT. So the image below shows this aircraft still registered as 9M-MRI and stored at Tarbes Lourdes Pyrenees on 04/10/2013, and then on 04/11/2013 it’s re-registered as N105GT and stored at Tel Aviv.
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/sd5330bf0a.jpg
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/pt5330bfee.jpg
@Marlin 25 Mar, 2014 – 7:22 am
I’ve heard the stories of the Lusitania, FDR possibly ignoring warnings about Pearl Harbor and Churchill allowing bombing of Coventry to protect the secret that Britain had broken the Enigma code.
It’s hard to tell what’s justified in real time. Always about protecting the Motherland, Fatherland, Homeland or Empire. As the victors write history, if MH370 was state sponsored we won’t learn what happened for another 50 or 100 years.
In my neck of the woods the story so far goes like this:
Plane saw something, dropped smoke for approaching ships
Ship found nothing
Some silly math person using the curvature of the earth to ‘add’ length to a magic formula just added an almost miniscule “Doppler” effect to a chart
Malaysia says “That’s it, they’re all dead
Big storm came, everybody goes home
Search permanently suspended
Dah? 🙁
The last time that Malaysian Boeing 777 had been seen was in November 2013 when it was landing in Tel Aviv. Since then that airplane had never been seen again.
http://www.planelogger.com/Aircraft/View?Registration=N105GT&DeliveryDate=04.10.13
GA Telesis has its headquarters in Ft.Lauderdale/Florida.
Dejavu 9/11?
Blubird – I just did a search for 9M-MRi, apparently it is owned by Malaysian Airways and it is stored away.
http://www.airfleets.net/recherche/search.htm
Spare parts? (He he ) 🙂
Donald ….
http://www.gatelesis.com/ga-telesis-disassembles-boeing-777-200er-767-200er-and-757-200er/
It was stored for dissembling but then was obviously NOT dissembled but it was spotted when flying to Tel Aviv in november 2013.
Since then the 777 malaysian airlines hadnt been seen ever again.
http://www.planelogger.com/Aircraft/View?Registration=N105GT&DeliveryDate=04.10.13
It looks at least fishy. Why would Israel need a Malaysian airlines Boeing-777-200 that should have been already dissembled at that time due to the GA Telesis website?
Bluebird – A 777 would make a magnificent addition to the Israeli Air Force as a refueling plane.
There is also the fact that if you place a nuke in it and send it Iran’s way then no one is likely to miss it.
Good morning all.
I’ve had another thought about that muffled or was it mumbled [which could change with translation] message the Vietnamese mentioned…now denied.
Do we know at which stage it was made or what was said , I don’t think so, but could it have sounded muffled due to wearing an oxygen mask ?
If the message was heard around the time the plane was climbing to 45,000 or descending through 20,000ft that would explain it .
NR.
I believe there’s many a false flag operation, the latest for me,is the Libyan fiasco,they don’t seem to worry about innocents who get in their way.
Car accidents of vital witnesses & recently two navy seals found with ‘needles’ same day same time.
Admittedly we are talking about a great number this time, but we don’t know just how many were innocent. Is it not very odd that so many highly trained technicians who worked on ‘sensitive’ material were all travelling on the same flight,anyone with common sense would not allow that.
I also wonder if something in the hold was not connected to their work ?
James/Marlin why are we thinking the plane flew over the Maldives going to DG , why not when it was leaving , it would muddy the waters & help confuse the investigation…………..making it look like the plane was lost ?
Tim, the fact DG was closed during those three crucial days, HAS to be significant…..not least because there has been absolute silence on the place,not one of our so called journalists have had the nerve,gumption,energy to make enquiries on either island. It’s a disgrace !
I am curious about the pilot flying out of the area to ditch the plane, could the passengers have been told they had a technical problem so were diverting to DG ?
Was the cargo & maybe some of the passengers removed there & the plane took off again with the same pilot thinking they were now on their way to Beijing, but in fact flying over the Maldives then out towards the Indian ocean……….. but unbeknown to the pilot on a preset flight path ,with enough fuel to get that far,timed to also explode once way out to sea, therefore destroying any evidence which could be found if just falling into the sea due to lack of fuel ?
Donald
…. or else you are “missing” some of the dissembled debris somewhere in the south indian ocean or else the debris of the Malaysian 777-200 stored in Tel Aviv did accidentally fall off an Israeli cargo ship en route to melbourne ….
But why Israel plus a company from Ft.Lauderdale (once again) ?
Katie –
1) http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-03-24/ebola-outbreak-sees-scores-die-in-west-africa/5340100
2) http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2013/Dec-12/240836-guinea-bissau-hits-out-at-portugal-in-syrian-refugee-row.ashx
Above is next door to N#1
3) Iranians of flight MH 370 did not fly to Malaysia from Iran
4) Massive False Passport racket in West Africa, as in N#1 above
I have tonnes more
That’s a fascinating tale about the stored plane BB.
Donald, that really complicates things ,west & east Africa are riddled with rot,but even the Mall siege was not up to this heist.
I was baffled as to why there were so many Lebanese in Sierra Leone when I was there years ago. None of them worked ,they spent their days gambling big sums of money [ I sat in on one session] & all seemed to be well off.
Katie – So my theory is this:
Two young Iranians wish to go to Europe and start looking for stolen passports, they begin to ask around.
At the same time the terrorists find out that for the first time in 20 years there is a real Ebola outbreak in West Africa, right next to where they train their young African recruits and also next to the false passport hub of the world.
A Golden Opportunity to kill millions
The Terrorists decide to use the two young innocent Iranians as carriers of the virus .. to Europe. (takes a week for the virus to incubate)
The Americans find out and make sure it disappears far, far away so that nobody can touch the contaminated corpse and contaminate plane.
And Diego Garcia just watched them fly right on by 🙂
A bit more … Of course that now accounts for the fact that although some debris was seen from the air nobody wants to lay a hand on it, the first time it was lost, the second time smoke was laid but the ship did not find it, and now a huge storm just happens to have destroyed any possibility of ever finding anything else to do with the plane.
Donald, that would justify a mass killing yes.
But, why would terrorists want to kill muslims & Chinese, had the plane been full of Westerners maybe ,but it wasn’t ?
Bleb
25 Mar, 2014 – 12:42 am
Absolutely, a well thought out spot indeed.
A place where the black box will be difficult to retrieve,if at all, but also not an inhabited part of the world so no sightings & no one could see a plane explode.
This is why it’s not the usual terrorist plot.
About GA Telesis (Ft.Lauderdale headquarters)
Owned by Bank of America Merrill Lynch (49%) and private investors.
President:
Mr. Abdol Moabery serves as the President and Chief Executive Officer of GA Telesis, LLC. Previously, Mr. Moabery served as Executive Vice President of Aviation Systems International, Inc., and as Director of Marketing and Sales at C-S Aviation Services, Inc. He also served in the the U.S. Navy and U.S. Naval Reserve. He serves as a Trustee of Florida Atlantic University. He is President of the Wings Club Scholarship Fund and is an Adviser to several national and local children’s charities. Mr. Moabery is a Philanthropist of various organizations, including His House Children’s Home, Kids in Distress, Florence Fuller Child Development Center, Food for the Poor, the ISTAT Foundation, the Factor Foundation and the March of Dimes. Mr. Moabery received his Bachelor’s degree in International Business Management from FAU.
http://www.gatelesis.com/company/about-us/
http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=35417220&privcapId=6720803
Katie – The terrorists also want China to give freedom to some Chinese sections in the Western parts of the country, an epidemic in the eastern sections which killed millions anywhere near Beijing would have been perfect for their aims.
The Iranians were only due to stop in China for a short while only then on to Europe, by the time they got there they would contaminated everyone in the entire plane.
Only a theory, mind you, but it accounts for everything that has happened so far
Donald, yes the separatist Uighurs have a gripe & apparently a justified one for independence.
So they would want the Chinese to suffer but as yet their dispute has been confined to sporadic outbreaks of violence,the recent one being the biggest & worst……..
I can’t help thinking the 2 Iranians were genuine & have been used as useful idiots.
Both former companies of Mr.Moabery were owned by George Soros. Therefore it is not unlikely that Soros owns a good part in GA Telesis, too.
C-S Aviation Services,
https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg64520.html
Aviation Systems International, Inc
http://business.fau.edu/news-events/event-details/index.aspx?eid=2826#.UzFK2CO3PJs