I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
I can just see the two Iranians about one hour after take off .. they might have gone to the bathrooms, one each, then locking the doors to avoid to quick a decompression they then used their laptops to take over the plane via the entertainment system then ….. 🙁
The problem here is that there are far too many theories, many of them so stupid it makes one wonder just who thinks of these things and why.
This is not a hostage/kidnapping/rendition event, anybody thinks that has been watching too many Clancy movies, this is about something else, something less sinister yet equally sensitive … wish I could work it out but there is not enough evidence out there to make hardly any suggestions.
Oh, Donald. The subtleties of sarcasm/humor are sometimes lost in print, or on internet forums. There are some here who excel at it. It’s dark humor, maybe, the kind of thing EMTs and others rely on to keep their perspective.
We do know that the plane in question had been damaged in a previous incident. We do know that Swissair 111 (Boeing) was said to have had a flaw in its entertainment system wiring, which caused a fire and led to its crash (among other factors, explained and unexplained). We know about many lives lost in crashes of Boeing planes: Air India Express 812, Allied Air 111 and many others already discussed. It also makes sense that a very large manufacturer is likely to have more incidents with its planes simply because it makes more planes. We do know that China Southern was a minority stakeholder in a centre where rendition took place, and that the rend-ee received a large financial settlement out of court (we do not know all the parties that settled with the rend-ee). We know that there are allegations of code-share partner China Southern or Chinese government officials gagging the media when it comes to incidents involving China Southern. We are pretty familiar with the 911 theories and the way military exercises seem to be taking place nearby when incidents involving commercial airliners occur. We know about missing passports and altered passports. We know that Malaysia has an interesting attitude about checking passports and international guidelines for pre-boarding security. We know that commercial airliners can be controlled remotely, by computers or humans located half-way around the world. In-air hostage-taking and storming the flight deck is so old-fashioned. We also know that programming flaws are real, and that any computer can be hacked by those with enough knowledge, time and money to do so. We know that satellites can be jammed and even destroyed by parasitic satellites. We know various connections between the MH370’s passengers’ line of work and why that might be important. We also know that humans, and organizations and countries run by humans, sometimes give in to deadly sins like revenge. We know that political tension is building up in the area where MH370 disappeared. We know that there was a recent incident involving a China Southern airliner over international waters on its way from Japan and a North Korean missile. We know that the U.S. is sending two ballistic missile destroyers to Japan, for a total of seven in Japan. We know that North Korea has promised a “new form of nuclear test”. I’d venture to say that the area is a tinder box at the moment, with potential for unimaginable consequences on the world stage.
We also know that there is no hard evidence as to the cause of MH370’s disappearance, or at least any evidence that has been made public. We do know that the public is not always told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I suppose that’s why forums like this exist. There are enough snippets of information to suggest that this was not just an ordinary day when MH370 took off.
Come on, then. Tell us your less sinister yet equally sensitive theory. We promise not to call you stupid.
Occam’s razor would be what?
Fire, where there’s been previous smoke, or is the simple answer; there was a sinister reason for the disappearance and it’s failure to be located?
Follow BUAP, and the strategic interests of the Region.
@Donald: I mention yet again for no particular reason that it is entirely a coincidence that the rendition of Sami al-Saadi and Abdel Hakim Belhadj took place 10 years ago in March, in the same region, involving a Boeing, a flight centre partially owned by China Southern, and a stop in Diego Garcia for refueling. March 8, 2004 is a significant date in Belhadj’s rendition. This is entirely a coincidence, and non-conspiratorial. Of course, you can perceive coincidences as conspiracies if you wish. It is up to you.
Has anyone ever seen a baby pigeon? Me either. But I think we can speculate that they exist, even when not seen or heard.
Perhaps airliners of the future will be tagged with a little device called Tile. For less than the cost of five fluffy espresso drinks, little things like multi-million dollar airplanes can be tracked via cellphone and cloud computing. Attach it to a multi-million dollar plane, say, and it can even be tracked by other Tile owners’ cellphones, which relay the signal without the need for the owners’ consent. They can also be set to beep so that airlines can find them. Better than all the current technology used by the airline industry and various militaries! And cheap! Of course it’s only in the crowd-funding stage now. But just wait until the airlines find out. Everyone will want one.
No need to fit gigantic airplanes with GPS locators or satellite relay…because of course, that is not current procedure. No need for radar one or two, or at all. And all for the cost of a few cups of coffee. Who knew?
I wonder if they can be shut off, and how long the batteries last.
@Donald 7 Apr, 2014 – 1:58 pm
“I wonder if anybody realized that the Chinese now have a British Submarine propeller’s frequency in their database? I wonder what other information we have inadvertently given them without thinking apart from the fact that now they know our supposed radar net is as useless as teats on a bull when considers there is no one manning the equipment.”
I was about to say it’s also revealed to interested countries that Indonesia has very good radar coverage, on the basis of reports the plane deliberately changed course to avoid crossing or coming near Indonesia and detection by their radars. Something whoever was flying the plane didn’t worry about with Australia.
Some reports also said this strange track happily converged with the existing Inmarsat tracks. Odd as it would mean the plane flew unnecessarily farther and used more fuel than was suggested.
HOWEVER, there’s a new report denying the plane ever zipped around Indonesia. Presumably crossed over it. Except the new report in internally contradictory and doesn’t say that at all. It says the plane was not detected by Indonesian radar, which is consistent with the original claim.
“KUALA LUMPUR, April 7 — Malaysia denied today reports claiming that MH370 had skirted Indonesian airspace to avoid radar detection.”
“Acting Transport Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein told a press conference here that he had instructed Malaysia’s military chief to contact his Indonesian counterpart and that the latter confirmed this.”
““It’s untrue,” he said. “They (Indonesia) confirmed they had no sighting of the plane,” he said at the conference broadcast live on Astro Awani.”
“Hishammuddin’s brief response, however, did not appear to directly answer the question raised by a reporter at the media conference.”
https://sg.news.yahoo.com/untrue-mh370-avoided-indonesian-radar-hishammuddin-says-103000208.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/russellflannery/2014/04/07/mainland-chinas-stock-exchanges-closed-for-tomb-sweeping-day/
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2014/04/06/2003587412
Tomb-Sweeping Day is a national holiday in China, and it is problematic for survivors of those lost in MH370.
The problem of no body to bury is also shared with other cultures. For example, what happens to one’s belief system when a burial should take place before sundown on the day of death, but doesn’t?
@NR: Ah, they didn’t “see” it. But they might have seen an image/signal of it on radar. But of course they absolutely, positively know where it went down using non-radar, non-avoidance, whatever. If a tree falls in the forest…and all that.
I deeply regret any inconvenience I may have caused by being party to this forum if it has inadvertantly contributed to the steaming pile of top-secret knowledge that the Chinese have concerning their sovereignty issues and foreign technologies. I also apologize for whatever harm may have come from revealing this sensitive information in the year of the horse. I am not certain what significance this has, due to my significant ignorance on such topics, but there you have it.
Q; “When a tree falls in the forest, does it make a sound”
For me, that is counter-intuitive. Only humans can be so self-centered as to think they must be the receiver in order for the transmission to be valid.
The tree makes a sound even if no people are there to hear it.
10 questions that are still unresolved
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26671224
@Bluebird 7:59 am: Something like this?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2578358/Husband-gave-wedding-ring-watch-wife-boarding-missing-flight-MH370-case-happen-him.html
Watches and wedding rings are also used to identify the dead when time has elapsed between death and remains being found. There are sharks in that part of the world, non?
Just another coincidence:
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/paul-weeks/33/6b8/b31
Another mechanical engineer with the same name, who works as a product review engineer on Boeing 777s.
For anyone interested, Mongolia has its own space program and remote sensing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government_space_agencies
http://mentalfloss.com/article/49607/22-space-agencies-arent-nasa
http://38north.org/2012/04/space041112/
North Korea’s space program is said to be behind that of Mongolia. Comment #6 sheds some light on remote sensing and China’s role in outfitting North Korea’s remote sensing laboratory.
Paul Weeks was “believed” to have worked for Transwest Mongolia. Transwest Mongolia is a Komatsu company.
http://www.komatsu.com/CompanyInfo/ir/annual/html/2013/special/04.html
http://www.techrepublic.com/resource-library/whitepapers/video-case-study-komatsu-s-move-to-cloud/
That fully-automated control system and engine lock sounds a lot like what is used in airplanes. Remote sensing of some sort seems to play a role. Interesting how Melbourne plays a role, again. And Telstra is supplied by Israel’s Tescom. Mobile phones, always.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/tescom-supplying-quality-control-systems-to-australia-s-telstra-1.119144
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telstra
How cloud computing is changing the way Boeing delivers apps and tracks its planes around the world, using “shred and scatter”:
https://www.networkworld.com/news/2014/040314-interop-boeing-280380.html
“In order to protect proprietary Boeing data the company uses a process called “shred and scatter.” Using software supported by a New Zealand firm, Greenbot, Boeing takes the data it plans to put in the cloud and breaks it up into the equivalent of what Nelson called puzzle pieces. Those pieces are then encrypted and sent to Microsoft Azure’s cloud. There it is stored and processed in the cloud, but for anything actionable to be gleaned from the data, it has to be reassembled behind Boeing’s firewall.”
NR, 10:59pm that bio link you gave has Woods ‘ age listed as “just turned 50”. I thought I saw his age as older – over 60, in various accounts. Honest mistake(s)?
Sarah Bajc’s work history is quite mystifying. I note she went from high level business manager to “intern” teacher in Beijing, if this Bio is to be believed. that Yuanfen company BB was looking at is mentioned in this Bio as a “client’ for which she consults.
She is either a very restless person moving all over the world for work, or she gets interesting “assignments”. One wonders how many such restless individuals are employed in Beijing.
Greenbot is android-based:
http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20140304006722/en#.U0Le63lOUuR
In case we had forgotten, Boeing is also in the satellite business:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2091220/nasa-satellite-to-bring-highspeed-data-to-hubble-iss.html
Boeing’s Tracking and Data Relay Satellite:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TDRS-L
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracking_and_Data_Relay_Satellite_System
Q
7 Apr, 2014 – 5:35 pm
Re; your link.
That’s very weird, he was either leaving her or knew something ?
Did you read the comment from his mate, at present top of the comment list.
@Marlin 7 Apr, 2014 – 6:16 pm
http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Sarah-Bajc/38270392
http://www.realmagick.com/yuanfen-translations/
From a fifteen second Internet investigation it appears that yuanfen is vaguely related to kabbalah, Celtic and Nordic runes and other new-age magikal stuff. Doesn’t connect to feng shui. Didn’t see The Illuminati or The Masons mentioned, but if I had another 45 seconds…
Good job for corporate consulting. They’re always looking for the latest fad when they’re not busy making Power Point presentations and inventing meaningless, mealy-mouthed words, and, of course, doing coke. Seminars, retreats, fire-walking, trust-building, motivating, etc. Why not Yuanfen?
@Katie 7:25 pm: Strange, isn’t it? And the other commenters find it strange, too.
It might be helpful to know where Paul Weeks served in the military. Was he with RAEME? Did he serve at Pine Gap?
General background on Pine Gap:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/pine-gap-drives-us-drone-kills-20130720-2qbsa.html
“Pine Gap controls a set of geostationary satellites positioned above the Indian Ocean and Indonesia. These orbit the Earth at a fixed point above the equator and are able to locate the origin of radio signals to within as little as 10 metres. Pine Gap processes the data and can provide targeting information to US and allied military units within minutes.”
RE; Q’s link on Paul Weeks giving his wedding ring & watch to wife before boarding his flight on MH370.
‘Gsx1100, Christchurch, New Zealand, 3 weeks ago
Paul was a very good friend of mine 25years.he is a great person.im so angry they can not find this plane with today’s technology If any thing did go on up there he would have gone nuts.me and a lot of his friends are spinning out about this.cant stop thinking about what happened.i miss you my friend.daniel hasson.and the boys from Aranui .’
Does anyone know what ARANUL IS ?
Also, don’t forget that 5 people also changed their minds about boarding the same flight.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2578358/Husband-gave-wedding-ring-watch-wife-boarding-missing-flight-MH370-case-happen-him.html#ixzz2yETKJkIk
Katie
Aranui is one of the eastern suburbs of Christchurch
Earlier today I nearly posted how odd it was to not take his wedding ring with him (not so much the watch). But I couldnt decide what would make him do that, he took lots of photos with his children just before he left too. I wonder how long he was due to be away. He did have a connecting flight on to Ulan Bator, Mongolia as you would expect.
@Q 7 Apr, 2014 – 8:38 pm
Did Snowden reveal anything of interest re Pine Gap style electromagnetic surveillance, or were the PowerPoints (some of those hasty, top-secret sketches on napkins) all about the Internet and phones and Telcoms?
He was self-admittedly paranoid what with covering himself in a RED hood when entering passwords and stuffing pillows around the door to defeat spies listening (ha ha).
He claims not to have brought any secrets to Russia, which means he left the four(4) laptops in Hong Kong, but not to worry, he knows the Chinese are incapable of decrypting them.
He and Greenwald regularly pop up on video-conferences around the world, but apparently they’re so well encrypted and routed the CIA and NSA are incapable of locating him.
One wonders if it is the biggest disinfo operation there ever was. The point being to convince everybody, world leaders included, that no secret is safe from the NSA.
Thanks for that Straw, I did Google it but only came up with some very weird stuff.
@Marlin, Bluebird: Another bio:
http://www.xmedialab.com/mentor/sarah-bajc
I knew we’d find the Rothschilds mixed up in this. 🙂
“The Palestrant-Rothschild family has been living in China on and off for many years.”
http://www.beijing-kids.com/magazine/Sarah-Bajc
Q and others –
How about a ground crew member placing a bomb in the landing gear area? How about a fire destroying all communications and control equipment while the autopilot kept working on a now faulty gyroscope? How about the possibility of contaminated oxygen bottles rendering everybody on board unconscious? What if a small meteorite fragment punctured the windscreen of the plane thus sucking both pilots out of the plane and …. get the point?
Leaving wedding rings and others such things behind is a typical Aussie/NZ thing to do .. I myself was left my father’s ring upon his death, my brother his watch. I myself was a soldier once .. same as the guy from NZ .. I too leave my valuables behind when I travel by plane.
The point is .. not everything is due to a conspiracy by Jewish activists, CIA spooks or Green Men from Mars. Some here have even acted like stalkers and gone into the personal lives of passenger spouses and their dead fathers and brothers just to try and makes some sort of connection with spook ideas from the 20th Century.
Of course it could have been a failed terrorist plot .. Perhaps Iranian followers of the 8th of March Brigade who swore revenge on behalf of Hezbollah, Iran and Syria or maybe the Malaysian wing of Al Qaeda and then when the governments found out they shot the plane down.
But some of the theories here are so outlandish I wonder if people have actually placed any thought into them or just follow trendy stories that have been around for 50 years or more, I’m surprised Roswell hasn’t been mentioned yet.
If the Americans wanted to stop 20 Experts from going to China and revealing information they would have read them the riot act and cancelled their visas, not shot a plane down. If the Chinese wanted them they would have arrested them on a trumped up charge as soon as the plane landed .. not highjacked the plane …. and Diego Garcia might be a great place to land a plane but it is the most heavily watched place on earth by the Russians, the Chinese the Iranians and even the Nth Koreans .. all of which would gladly tell the story of a stolen plane to the world just to give America a hard time.
But what really gets me is the arrogance of some in thinking that only the Americans, the British and the Australians can commit such crimes .. especially Australia, where I live .. our soldiers are not murderers and the job of our spooks is vastly different to that of MI6 or the CIA ..please look at your own people for that .. I think you guys stay home and read the local news too much.
it’s as if you think the Vietnamese, the Malaysians, the Indonesians, the Thais and the Chinese are guiltless little garden gnomes innocent of any crime when in fact they are perpetrators of some of the most horrific crimes in history.
Whatever happened to the plane is a local thingy .. the entire world does not revolve around just a few countries in the west, if one thing has been proven here is that their technology is equally as bad as ours.
Donald – I note that you too have your own bête noire, namely Iran.