I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
Q – Take a look at the board of directors here, same person?
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Barrick_Gold_Corporation
Yes, Donald.
To anyone: how many hours could a 777 fly below 400 feet to stay out of the way of civil aviation?
Q – “It must have taken considerable advance planning and skilled piloting to accomplish that”
But here is the problem .. the authorities themselves are saying that the plane “WAS” tracked by their radars .. otherwise they wouldn’t have known that it had followed the waypoints and changed course every now and then.
As proof: They issued this statement:
“Military radar evidence suggests the missing Malaysia Airlines jetliner … a route between navigational way-points, indicating it was being flown by…”
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/missing-jet/radar-shows-plane-deliberately-flew-toward-indian-ocean-reports-n52561
So Radars did see the plane .. nobody cared, could have been a nuke for all they knew. Asleep while on guard duty is what I see.
Q – “To anyone: how many hours could a 777 fly below 400 feet to stay out of the way of civil aviation?”
Impossible .. A fighter-jet, yes or maybe a crop sprayer or such, but a 777 would wobble all over the sky, it’s not a holdable altitude … plane’s too heavy and air density (pressure) changes would drop it out of the sky in an instant. At the second last course change the plane did come down to 1000 feet .. over water … with no lights on a moonless night.
Also, over ground the plane would need terrain following radar because it was a moonless night, 777 don’t have it.
Low altitude versus max seems to cut range in half.
http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/acaps/7772sec3.pdf
Thanks Donald, I did watch that fishing boat emergency & was very surprised to see how quickly it was dismissed.
I have just watched CNN & see we still have just ‘pings’ but everyone is more hopeful…………..someone wake me when they have something positive like a BB or some debris labelled MH370 . 😉
No need to fly below the Deck when the magnetosphere running full.
http://hipknowsys.blogspot.com/2014/03/s0-news-march-7-2014-arctic-storm-space.html
“When signals from a ground-based VLF transmitter travel through the magnetosphere and arrive at a low-altitude satellite in the conjugate hemisphere, they may undergo a spectral distortion due to Doppler shift by the satellite velocity. The paper presents a VLF ray tracing study of published VLF Doppler data samples. It is shown that the density structure of the plasmasphere leaves its imprint or signature in the observed Doppler shift pattern. Large positive and negative Doppler shifts (about 100 Hz) are reproduced by a strong decreasing electron density gradient interacting with the magnetic field curvature gradient between L roughly 2 and L roughly 3. VLF Doppler signatures can detect whether short-scale gradients dominate the density structure or merely perturb the long-scale gradient. The ray path calculations also allow one to map the signals observed by the satellite back to their excitation point in the lower ionosphere and thus estimate the effective transmitter coverage in the excitation hemisphere.’
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1976JGR….81.3327E
Check out the map for area of greatest intensity.
http://portalsafety.ucoz.com/news/magnetic_storm_march_5_2014_weather/2014-03-06-119
AA; pointed out that VLF is low-freq, whereas sats operate at higher freq. Does that make it less sensitive to magnetic disturbance, or more. Higher freq seem more tenuous, as I see when comparing satellite TV pixelating during solar events, but radio is not affected nearly as much if at all.
Unconnected but interesting.
Weather warfare’s roots.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Popeye
Donald, 1:07PM – I see you don’t like Assange – because the disclosures endangered the lives of the legionaires and centurions sent out to fight Rome’s (oops, US empire”s) wars (I know, you call them soldiers. So did those good old emperors (hadrian, Claudius, caligula among them). Mind you, those murderous “troops” shown in the collateral murder video kind of “endangered” the lives of a bunch of “natives” to the point of rather conclusively snapping them out. It sure looked to me like they had a choice.
I understand you believe people should support the “troops”, sent to enforce the Empire’s ways, even if they don’t “believe” in the punitive “wars” they are sent on. So did the Romans – you know – they too felt it was “patriotic” to “support the legion”. Then like now, to the detriment of a few million slobes and “natives” out there (who failed to appreciate the behavior of said “soldiers”, instead choosing to carry on their lives as if all was normal, only to find out they were dispensable). If all the soldiers who committed war crimes for all the mad empires out there were brought to justice as humanity demands, the jails would be full to the brim.
I think you may find that most people on these boards are solidly on Wikileaks, Manning’s and Snowden’s side, give or take a few who may believe they were agents, who released some carefully selected information. I’d rather we saw a total dump of all the “classified’ information pronto, and send the ones who CHOSE to be “soldiers of empire” home along with their lethal gear – there to deal with their trained indifference to human livesthat are not of their own designated “tribe” (ie, “western”). But, of course, you are free to sentimentalize the killing fields – kind of doubt you’ll meet too many Iraqis, Afganis, Cambodians, Vietnamese who agree with you.
My last comment on the subject of heroic leakers, mercifully.
I’m more perturbed by Greenwalds failure to deliver the promised blockbusters, and that follows the untoward funding from Ebay.
As to Snowden the cables we’ve seen and the acerbic rhetoric around ‘hero’ or traitor are beside the point. He sacrificed his livelihood and autonomy. That’s sacrifice worthy of any soldier.
‘Nuff said by me too.
Geraldton was touched-on, but the proximity to the search area mystifies. Also makes me nervous that WarTech is so feeble.
http://australianmap.net/kojarena-echelon-base/
“The Australian Defence Satellite Communications Ground Station (ADSCGS) is located at Kojarena, 30 km east of Geraldton in Western Australia. It is operated by the ADF Defence Signals Division (DSD). As of November 2005, the base was staffed by seventy-nine personnel, and housed five radomes and eight satellite antennas. The Kojarena station is a major Australian DSD signals interception facility, and is part of a worldwide system of satellite communications keyword monitoring known as Echelon, which operates within the wider UKUSA signals intelligence system.
Under an agreement initiated in 2007, Geraldton figures in the US–Australia partnership in the Wideband Global SATCOM system, which provides Australian access to the principally US-funded constellation of at least seven (and possibly nine) high-capacity global war-fighting communications satellites. Under the agreement, Australia funded the sixth satellite, due to be launched in 2012–13. The first three satellites were launched between 2007 and 2010, and Australia gained operational access by June 2010.
In November 2007 the Australian government announced the signing of a Memorandum of Understanding with the United States (MUOS) for the building of an additional but separate facility within the grounds of the ADSCGS. This is to consist of three small buildings, three 19 metre antennas, and two smaller antennas, making up a joint US–Australian ground station for the US Department of Defense Mobile User Objective System, a narrow-band networked satellite constellation for Ultra-High-Frequency satellite communications enabling secure all-weather and all terrain 3-G mobile telecommunications.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Defence_Force
“Current priorities[edit]
The Australian Government’s defence policies are guided by the white paper Defending Australia in the Asia Pacific Century: Force 2030, which was released in 2009. The white paper argued that Australia’s strategic environment is likely to become more complex and uncertain due to the changing relationships between nations in the Asia-Pacific region.[7] In response to this, it set out a policy of increasing the ADF’s capabilities over the period to 2030. This includes significantly expanding the ADF’s maritime capabilities, improving the firepower of Army units and equipping the RAAF with modern and more capable aircraft. The ADF’s communication, intelligence and logistics capabilities are also to be improved.[8] The current government has committed to producing new defence white papers “at intervals of no greater than five years” so that changes to Australia’s strategic environment are taken into account during defence planning.[7] The next white paper is planned to be released in 2013.[9]
Defending Australia in the Asia Pacific Century: Force 2030 identifies Australia’s strategic objectives and the ADF capabilities which are necessary for these to be met. It states that “Australia’s most basic strategic interest remains the defence of Australia against direct armed attack”.[10] To accomplish this, the ADF needs to be capable of dominating the air and sea approaches to Australia, which includes defending the country’s sea lanes and infrastructure.[7] The next most important priority is identified as “the security, stability and cohesion of our immediate neighbourhood, which we share with Indonesia, Papua New Guinea, East Timor, New Zealand and the South Pacific island states”.[10] This includes ensuring that the ADF is capable of intervening in these countries to protect Australian citizens, providing humanitarian assistance and, if necessary, stabilising countries at risk of becoming failed states.[8] The third most important priority identified in the white paper is contributing to “the stability of the wider Asia-Pacific region” and particularly Southeast Asia.[10] This requires that the ADF be able of assisting countries in the region to respond to threats to their security, including in co-operation with the United States. Such assistance may include the deployment of large Australian military forces.[8] The fourth priority set out is “preserving an international order that restrains aggression by states against each other, and can effectively manage other risks and threats”.[10] This requires that the ADF be able to contribute limited forces to operations throughout the world.[8]”
From the Wiki; DEFCON 3 alert happens when?
“The ADF has probably the most capable air and naval capabilities in the South-East Asia region. However, the small size of the Army and the age of much of the RAN and RAAF’s equipment constrains Australia’s ability to make large-scale deployments or engage in high-intensity combat.[196] The ADF’s personnel shortages may also limit its ability to quickly conduct new deployments.[197]
The ADF is highly capable of defeating direct attacks on Australia by conventional forces, though such attacks are highly improbable at present. The ADF’s intelligence gathering capabilities should enable it to detect any attacking force before it reaches Australia. Once detected, the RAN and RAAF would be able to defeat the attacking force while it was still in Australia’s maritime approaches. The Army and RAAF are also capable of defeating small raiding forces once they are detected.[198] The ADF currently maintains sufficient forces to meet its domestic security and counter-terrorism responsibilities.[199]
“
Ben-Scot, 7:58pm – well said, and too true.
Marlin – your 7:14 “…..I think you may find that most people on these boards are solidly on Wikileaks, Manning’s and Snowden’s side, give or take a few who may believe they were agents…….”
It’s understandable,mate, people must have feelings .. after all, the world is full of dreamers, fools, morons and imbeciles … (It’s a multi-choice statement to help you not feel insulted)
Now, with regard the chopper attack … go out into the streets .. find yourself a person walking some 5000 yards away from you and see if you can tell where they are carrying a folded umbrella in their hand, a sausage up their arse, two loaves of bread under the armpit or an AK-47 …..
@Donald 9 Apr, 2014 – 4:29 pm
“Q – Take a look at the board of directors here, same person?
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Barrick_Gold_Corporation
Unless there is a passel of Robert M. Franklins on the loose, it is.
Barrick Gold was involved in the biggest gold-ore-salting scam at the time, in East Kalimantan, Indonesia. (It may have been a victim.)
Peter Munk, a co-founder of Barrick, was but one name thrown off way, way back in the al-Hilli thread connecting Canadian oligarchs to Russian and ‘Stan oligarchs. Bill Clinton expediting connections between the groups (for a substantial donation to his library). It related to uranium ore, Areva and Urenco.
List of ALEC non-profits.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/ALEC_Non-Profits
News from 2 Hours ago:
“…..EXPERTS inside the Malaysian Airlines Flight MH 370 Joint Agency Coordination Centre believe there are just two possible explanations for the lack of debris on the ocean surface from the downed jet.
The wide-bodied Boeing 777 was either flown under control into the ocean, largely intact and sank to the bottom in one piece or its wreckage was scattered by a cyclone that passed through the search area soon after the search began……”
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/experts-give-reasons-for-lack-of-debris-from-flight-mh370/story-fnizu68q-1226879692901
@Marlin
9 Apr, 2014 – 7:14 pm
Well said, Marlin.
Methinks Donald is at risk of finding himself in the ‘I was only following orders’ camp on that one if he’s not careful.
Otherwise he seems a sound bloke.
Mochin – “I was only following orders” – Been there done that, I was a soldier, mate.
You guys can jump and scream and do as you wish but in the end don’t forget .. you are here on the net because Americans and Britishers once fire-bombed Germany and killed a thousands of children, then they came home, screwed your mothers and here you are … it’s in your blood, I bet if I put a gun in your hands you’d go about slaughtering birds and rabbits and such when no one was looking. 🙂
And you worry about a chopper killing a few innocents .. Get used to it, you ain’t gonna stop it, in fact you vote for it every time you vote in a democracy … 🙂
NR – “Barrick Gold was involved in the biggest gold-ore-salting scam at the time, in East Kalimantan, Indonesia. (It may have been a victim.)”
Yes, I found these:
“Bre-X was a group of companies ….. involved in a major gold mining scandal …. reported … sitting on an enormous gold deposit at Busang, Indonesia (on Borneo).
….The fraud began to unravel rapidly on March 19, 1997 when Filipino Bre-X geologist Michael de Guzman died by falling from a helicopter in Indonesia. His body …”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bre-X
@Donald 10 Apr, 2014 – 4:16 am: “… or its wreckage was scattered by a cyclone that passed through the search area soon after the search began……” and “The wide-bodied Boeing 777 was either flown under control into the ocean, largely intact and sank to the bottom in one piece…”
Halfway-overheard on CNN by one of their experts, “We’ve wasted weeks looking for debris to the east of the track when we should have been looking to the west, because we didn’t realize cyclones rotated the other direction south of the equator.” (Like the locals wouldn’t know that.)
CNN’s Mary Schiavo, who seems competent, later said that there was a crash near Indonesian islands where searchers could find no debris. So the govt. offered a reward to islanders for any finds. In spite of that only 150 small pieces were turned in — tray tables and luggage, etc.
The controlled landing agrees with the UN report that said their satellites did not record a crash on land or at sea.
NR
The book received a critical review from Bill Adair in the St. Petersburg Times, who wrote: “Schiavo is right about many problems at the FAA. … But Schiavo seems unable to offer a calm and constructive account of the FAA’s problems. She’d rather grab headlines with wild and often inaccurate comments.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Blind,_Flying_Safe
Seems perfect for CNN and their ‘Look here in the Eastern Indian Ocean, dont worry about those eyewitness reports what do they know’
Shark Tagging:
I thought there was something funny about the black box transmissions of 37.5 Khz .. it’s taken me a while to remember but now it has come to my mind that the Australian Shark Tagging Program (much of it in the Indian Ocean) tags its sharks with frequency transmitters of between 34 Khz and 84 Khz.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=VioW40mAljUC&pg=PA355&lpg=PA355&dq=shark+acoustic+transmitter+frequency&source=bl&ots=WGlEDpHYkT&sig=6f7Up-eBOUcyReiasinAX7sd2-A&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xG1GU4PrOMqPkgXz_IG4Bw&ved=0CD4Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=shark%20acoustic%20transmitter%20frequency&f=false
Donald
10 Apr, 2014 – 11:15 am
That is hilarious, thanks,brilliant information & could well explain why the MH370 information is now a small article at the bottom of the mail online page & 8th on the Telegraph..
Clearly departments don’t work together………..or maybe they do but are being ignored..
Mochyn & Marlin,
As he knows, I don’t agree with Donald about whistleblowers either but I can assure you he is a ‘sound bloke’.
The sort of all round capable guy I’d trust in a crisis. 😉
Katie – Your 11:35
🙂