I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
I wish the navy divers good luck, I can only imagine what it must be like to dive into the murky depths of the Indian Ocean chasing a fading signal only to then find a 27 foot great White Shark looking straight at you.
Donald,my pleasure,I don’t want people here to think we are in ‘cahoots’, I was just giving my opinion formed over the years of reading your comments. 🙂
What about Dolphins , at what level are their sonic calls ?
Watching a discussion on CNN about MH370,basically it’s yet another post- mortem of what happened,what didn’t happen …… after pilot said good night.
New conspiracy theory shared by a russian newspaper with traditional close links to the russian secret service.
http://mtv.com.lb/EN/News/324477
What do the russians know and is this just another deliberate disinformation campaign?
Katie – “..What about Dolphins , at what level are their sonic calls ?.”
Mostly their calls are not within range but when stressed then yes, they might get confused with the black box … but only for a short while, they can’t keep up the range for too long.
“…..can hear and generate low-frequency sounds below 20 kilohertz that lie within human capabilities, as well as high-frequency sounds of up to more than 150 kilohertz, well beyond the range of our hearing……”
http://news.discovery.com/animals/whales-dolphins/dolphin-sounds-communication-device-120524.htm
Bluebird – ” …..in Afghanistan near Kandahar and the Pakistani borders………”
I checked with Google Earth and couldn’t find an area for it too land .. (but my eyesight is not too good these days) Also .. further up North West one could land a space shuttle on them really flat plains.
Another very good possibility not even discussed anywhere is that the plane might have headed “East”. not as dumb an idea as one would think if one is looking for a place to hide a plane.
World wide lithium ion battery production.
Remember: MH370 did deliver coals to newcastle (or Lithium batteries to china).
DUBLIN, January 14, 2014 /PRNewswire/ –Research and Markets (http://www.researchandmarkets.com/research/vz4j3j/global_and) has announced the addition of the “Global and Chinese Lithium Ion Battery Industry Report 2013” report to their offering. (Logo: http://photos.prnewswire.com/prnh/20130307/600769 )The ‘Global and Chinese Lithium Ion Battery Industry Report 2013’ is a professional and in-depth research report on the global lithium ion battery industry with a focus on the Chinese situation.This report first provides an overview of the lithium ion battery industry including definitions, classification, performance parameters, working principles, compositions and structure, applications, performance and characteristics. The industry chain structure is also reviewed looking at cathode and anode materials, battery diaphragm and electrolyte.Lithium ion battery manufacturing technology and processes are also delineated looking at product line equipment. Production, supply, sales, demand, market status and forecast analysis is also provided.Eight global manufacturers and 18 Chinese manufacturers are profiled introducing information such as capacity production cost price production value profit margins and other relevant data, product specifications and company background. The feasibility of a 30Million Pieces/year lithium ion battery project is analyzed and overall research conclusions are reached.Key Topics Covered:Chapter One Lithium Ion Battery Industry Overview1.1 Definition1.2 Classification1.3 Lithium Ion Battery Electrochemical Performance Parameters1.4 Lithium Ion Battery Working Principle1.5 Lithium Ion Battery Composition and Structure1.6 Lithium Ion Battery Performance and Characteristic1.7 Lithium Ion Battery Application1.8 Industry Chain StructureChapter Two Lithium Ion Battery Manufacturing Technology and ProcessChapter Three Lithium Ion Battery Production Supply Sales Demand Market Status and Forecast3.1 Lithium Ion Battery Productions Overview3.2 Mobile Phone Electric Tools Automotive Energy Storage etc Different Applications Lithium Ion Battery Production Market Share3.3 China Korea Japan Three Countries Lithium Ion Battery Production Market Share3.4 Demand3.5 Lithium Ion Battery Supply Demand Shortage3.6 Lithium Ion Battery Price Cost Production Value Gross MarginChapter Four International Lithium Ion Battery Key Manufacturers4.1 Sanyo (Japan)4.2 Sony (Japan)4.3 Maxell (Japan)4.4 Panasonic (Japan)4.5 Samsung SDI (Korea)4.6 LGC (Korea)4.7 E-one Moli (Taiwan)4.8 A123 (United States)Chapter Five China Lithium Ion Battery Key ManufacturersChapter Six China 30Million Pieces/year Lithium Ion Battery Project Investment Feasibility Analysis6.1 30Million Pieces/year Lithium Ion Battery Project Opportunities and Risks Analysis6.2 30Million Pieces/year Lithium Ion Battery Project Investment Feasibility AnalysisChapter Seven Lithium Ion Battery Research ConclusionsCompanies Mentioned:A123ATLBAKBK BatteryBYDCOSLIGHTChanghong BatteriesChina Aviation Lithium BatteryDESAYDKTE-one MoliEVEFengfan New EnergyFenghua LIBGuoxuan High-techHYBLGCLishenMaxellPanasonicSAPTSCUDSUNWODASamsung SDISanyoSonyFor more information visit http://www.researchandmarkets.com/research/vz4j3j/global_and
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/global-chinese-lithium-ion-battery-200000462.html
@Donald FYI
http://militarybases.com/overseas/afghanistan/
http://www.thestate.com/2013/09/20/2990709/surreal-afghanistan-boardwalk.html
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kandahar_International_Airport
Bluebird, acoording to my sources, Vladimir Potanin is Jewish, and he founded the Russian arm of MTV in 1997. I gather that in Russia mainstream media like MTV publish extraordinary things that they never could get away with anywhere else. I think it is in this context — an d the interests that are behind MTV — that you should view the extraordinary claim, that the MH370 is in Pakistan.
Bluebird, acoording to my sources, Vladimir Potanin is Jewish, and he founded the Russian arm of MTV in 1997.
I gather that in Russia mainstream media like MTV publish extraordinary things that they never could get away with anywhere else. I think it is in this context — and the interests that are behind MTV — that you should view the extraordinary claim, that the MH370 is in Pakistan.
Come on Kenneth, you can do better than that .. If you’re going to blame a Jew for something then please try to make it an Earth Shattering event, not some mediocre stuff about shares and profits …. I bet if you really put your head to it you’ll come up with something more sinister … give it a plot man, don’t just parrot the stuff … embellish! 🙂
Good post there BB………………. so why has no one in the media queried that statement about batteries,they all happily jumped on it thinking that was the cause of this mystery,I truly believe this shows what an unthinking lot of Lemmings they are ?
Thanks for that Donald , I wonder who will be the first to twig they are spending a fortune on a wildlife hunt ?
@Donald 10 April 8:15 am: Lyndon Larouche’s views were discussed on the al-Hilli threads, so now it is time to bring him here:
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2007/3416gore_bush_barrick.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_Strong
http://www.canadafreepress.com/index.php/article/23141
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/blog/2010/jun/22/maurice-strong-interview-global-government
What can I say but “send in the dolphins”:
http://www.cnet.com/news/u-s-navy-dolphins-find-antique-torpedo/
Acoustic Kitty won’t be much help in the ocean.
If Pakistan was likely or possible why would UK/US be wanting the current search area? Equally why arent the UK/US pulling out all the stops on the current search? Token effort only
An aside on the North Korean drone:
It’s made of polycarbonate to avoid detection on radar. It was preprogrammed (to follow GPS map grids, we assume), and was not being remotely controlled. High-output radar is suggested to detect unmanned unaerial vehicles.
http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/International-Relations/North-Korean-drones-send-shock-waves-across-South
I’ve been curious about the preprogrammed waypoints, and found this:
http://forums.jetphotos.net/showthread.php?t=55779&page=50
“If flying on autopilot and you reach the last waypoint, does the autopilot:
disengage,
fly in a pattern around the final waypoint, or
keep going in a straight line?
keeps going in a straight line (VNAV, HDG/TRK HOLD) until the fuel runs out. There should also be an EICAS message indicating that no active route is selected.”
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/269337/
http://discussions.flightaware.com/general/fs-routes-t896.html
“Boeing doesn’t want pilots entering waypoints using the keypad during flight, so the way it’s done is by selecting preprogrammed navdata, such as the SID DP/STAR IAP database.”
http://fortunascorner.com/2014/03/21/computer-programmed-from-cockpit-sent-malaysian-flight-370-off-flight-path/
FWIW.
Is anyone here familiar with the waypoint “gibberish”? How easy would it be to make a mistake entering the code? Are waypoint codes similar? Has preprogrammed navdata ever been flawed?
“American investigators would like access to the flight simulator
and any other electronic information seized from the pilots, but as of
Monday night they had not been given access to those materials.”
From: http://fortunascorner.com/2014/03/21/computer-programmed-from-cockpit-sent-malaysian-flight-370-off-flight-path/
http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/chinese-ships-trawl-new-search-area-for-mh370-debris
The public can experience Malaysia Airlines’ flight simulator. It is not entirely clear if the participants in the MH Flight Simulator Experience use the same flight simulators as the professional pilots for Malaysia Airlines, but given the cost of this equipment, it makes sense that they do. Do you think they’ve cancelled this opportunity for now?
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/commercial-services/mh-flight-simulator-experience/about.html
“For example, this second half of the year, we test them on a five hour Perth to KL route. Along the way, we’ll simulate all types of situations that require quick decision-making,” Captain Lewis reveals.”
So, the official version of the event is that members of the public couldn’t possibly pre-program waypoints. But could a simulator engineer, or a general member of the public who has some sort of aviation training, say as a private pilot, or someone who has taken the MH Flight Simulator Experience?
Q – I have my own flight simulator and often use it to nuke Iraq or Pearl Harbour (good fun) … Waypoints are pre-programmed but you can program any route into a autopilot and have it follow it.
Having said that, I’ve had my simulator for many years now and although I “think” I can fly any plane if necessary I also believe I would be a disaster at programming the autopilot, easy enough to set up a pre-programmed waypoint though but unless you have hands on experience with the device then I can’t see it being too easy.
An Autopilot can also:
Fly in a circle at a set altitude
Fly from point a to point b at a set angle of climb or descent
Fly straight ahead at a set altitude.
Fly to a pre-determined destination and line itself with the runway. (seriously)
I believe the new ones can even land the plane and bring it to a stop.
I shall look up a 777 simulator and see what I can do with it.
Something about the deletions in the simulator:
Unless the pilot wrote new data (a lot of it) into the simulator as soon as he deleted the old stuff then no matter what measures he took, the data can still be undeleted. Only one method can completely and permanently delete data from a hard drive …. but I shan’t post it here.
“delete data from a hard drive”
I drive a stake through it’s heart; literally. No way to retrieve from a damaged disc.
@straw44berry 10 Apr, 2014 – 10:37 am
“NR: [Schiavo] seems perfect for CNN and their ‘Look here in the Eastern Indian Ocean, dont worry about those eyewitness reports what do they know’.
Exactly. She’s quick thinking and convincing. She did tell one interesting story: that she attended a destructive test of an aircraft. A wing was forced upward and did not fail until it reached 70 degrees, whereupon it snapped off with a very loud noise. So it’s possible, if unlikely, for a plane to survive a ditching largely intact.
And no cause to worry when looking out the window and seeing wings and engines flapping about by a mere 20 degrees.
@straw44berry 10 Apr, 2014 – 3:32 pm
“Equally why arent the UK/US pulling out all the stops on the current search? Token effort only”
The UK/US and likely Russia and China know the end-point of MH370 and are happy to leave it to the search team, who will in time find the remains, or not, in the current search area. Better to stay out of the mess and blame the Malaysians.
Another funny from CNN, paraphrased, “How long before they deploy underwater sonar? Listening for pings from the surface can’t go on much longer. The media will demand they do something.”
Very curious, it is, that although investigators have taken great interest in the pilot’s home flight simulator, which could be an ordinary, gaming program that the average Joe uses for recreation and relaxation, they don’t seem to have any interest the professional flight simulators which Malaysia Airlines opens to the public for a fee.
What kind of an airline in this post-911 world lets anyone off the street to train on its flight simulators, for a fee, of course? Aren’t there some sort of FAA-type regulations in the commercial airline world regarding use of flight simulators and protecting them from tampering? Remember pre-911 Florida, where pilots took training at an American flight school? Now, you can walk off the street and train on a professional Boeing 777 flight simulator, courtesy of Malaysia Airlines. What kind of security checks are involved (same as for passengers: oh, no!)? What is the fee? Does Boeing approve?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwJa5O8Oneg
@NR 4:59 pm: Was that a broken wing tip, like the one MH370 broke in August 2012?
Ben-Scot NON-collaborator 10 Apr, 2014 – 4:36 pm
““delete data from a hard drive”
I drive a stake through it’s heart; literally. No way to retrieve from a damaged disc.”
It isn’t necessary for the disc to spin to read tracks on the disc or even pieces of it. High security drives are run through a shredder — like a big meat grinder — and the resulting bits are melted down, lest some clever enemy reassemble the trash like a picture puzzle. Not that there was proof it could be done, but the fear was somebody would find a method of doing so in the future.
The Youtube video says that United Airlines allows the public to use its simulators, too. If true, were United’s professional flight simulators ever examined following United Airlines Flight 93?
@Q 10 Apr, 2014 – 5:23 pm
“@NR 4:59 pm: Was that a broken wing tip, like the one MH370 broke in August 2012?”
I took it to mean the entire wing broke away from the body at 70 degrees.
United did hold a charity auction for a flight simulator experience.
http://www.cheapair.com/United_Airlines_Auctions_Off_Flight_Simulator_Experience_-news78.htm
@NR: 154
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ai2HmvAXcU0
In my search for more information on the MH Flight Simulator Experience, I found this:
http://amikd.com/malaysia/malaysia-airlines-flight-experience-mh-20-kuala-lumpur-to-.html
“The page you are looking for doesn’t seem to exist.”
From the search summary:
“Malaysia Airlines Flight Experience Mh 20 Kuala Lumpur To Commercial services mh flight simulator experience terms and conditions of the mh flight simulator experience mh fse Malaysia airlines mh129 kuala lumpur to melbourne various parts of the flight onboard the new a330300 23 …”