I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
Q waypoints
I saw a Flight Investigation this week of a flight into Cali where ATC radar had been taken out by drug gangs. After confusion over whether the aircraft should notify ATC on reaching the next waypoint or not. The pilot plotted their next waypoint and typed in R normally the waypoint beginning with R would be at the top of the list. They all just showed R and co-ordinates the pilot was getting punchy and clicked ok on the top one not seeing the route of the aircraft was now flying off at about 270 degrees from where they should have been heading. They crossed into the next valley and were still trying to lose height to land and crashed into a mountain.
I did wonder if at the point of the U-turn that somehow they had a problem and had inadvertently put in the wrong waypoint. That doesnt account for flight level change, but trying to remove an armed hijacker from the cockpit could account for that.
Then who knows where….but eyewitness reports near Kota Bharu suggest low level not 43,000 feet.
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/commercial-services/mh-flight-simulator-experience/terms-and-conditions.html
“3. Proof of identification
In the interests of security, all Malaysian participants above 12 years of age will be required to produce their Malaysian Identity Card or Malaysian Driving License whereas for non-Malaysian participants, they will be required to produce their International Passport as a form of identification on arrival at the MAS FCTC complex. Participants below 15 years of age are also required to provide written consent from their parent or guardian. Failure to provide those required documents satisfactory to MAS will result in the refusal of admittance. No refund will be given in such circumstances.”
11. Personal data
Participants agree that any personal data provided to MAS in connection with this booking can be recorded and stored by MAS in accordance with the applicable data protection regulations and may be provided to government authorities in the interests of aviation security.”
Any 10-year-old with cash, bank draft or telegraphic transfer capability can apply; no credit cards accepted. Discounts apply to Enrich members. There are no security checks, only ID taken. Would that be altered/forged ID?
“Not that there was proof it could be done, but the fear was somebody would find a method of doing so in the future.”
NR;
I’m more concerned about ID theft. If NSA wants to get me, they can contrive what they need to do so. I don’t use encrypted email or anonymizers because they attract undue attention.
I’d rather hide in plain sight. 🙂
Why the focus on a home simulator while ignoring the professional simulator provided for training by the airline to 10-year-olds? Could a 10-year-old program waypoints…considering that elsewhere in the world a baby is up on murder charges.
Donald
Shark tagging:-
There are six ARGOS global positioning satellites orbiting the earth that can pick up a SPOT tag’s ping at any time.
“The ARGOS satellite is only around about every two hours. Then the fin has to stay out of water for minute or two to get a good fix
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9241939/Forget_Shark_Week_Researchers_tag_n_track_great_whites?pageNumber=2
For the sharks to be tracked they need to surface!
10 mile range for tracking
No mention of frequency that I can see here
Why no mention of what happened to the planes which crashed into the WTC on 9/11 – they burned up in the resulting fire, like the buildings themselves – when trying to explain why no debris has been found of WH370 ???
It’s the essential assumption of this cover up.
There are a whole lot of questions that might be borrowed from those events, THF:
http://www.journalof911studies.com/resources/Schreyer-Vol-33-Oct2012.pdf
http://desip.igc.org/NoPlanesOn911.html
With so many questions and so few answers, what hope is there for MH370?
Debris was found at the Pentagon, but serial numbers on landing gear mysteriously omitted.
Maybe they don’t want to take any more chances and sought an Amelia Earhart conclusion.
Absent evidence, is the safer path.
Pentagon case just proves that hitting a building of more indestructible composition, a plane with less fuel, and at a place where oxygen supply is more restricted is far different from starting fires in the cabin while the plane is going at high speed and nearly full fueled at 35,000 feet, and it then descending into an atmosphere of increasing oxygen until the burning mass finally crashes into the sea.
I saw an interview with an airplane crash investigator from Florida who said that nothing can be omitted at this point, and that it is important to remain open-minded until the black box for MH370 is located. Debris without the black box will be limited in its usefulness.
What if the black boxes are never found – what the current investigation seems to be setting us up for – and can a massive electrical fire in a plane cause them not to function?
Q, even if they find the BB I can’t see anything being conclusive.
Do you know if a change of frequency can by pass that flight voice recorder ?
Trow.
If there had been a massive fire onboard I feel someone would have managed to get a phone message through.
http://rt.com/usa/inflight-wfi-nsa-monitoring-548/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/apr/9/prepare-drones-perch-power-lines-recharge-never-ha/
It’s possible, though unlikely Katie, and if so, why hasn’t the receiver of a call come forward?
And what if the fire had the passengers gasping for breath before they passed out rather than attempting a call which would do them no good?
Strawberry – your 6:01 “..For the sharks to be tracked they need to surface!”
I have no idea how they do it but I posted the frequencies somewhere on page 8 of this blog … I have since learned that the new method is to tag sharks internally. they do not use fin tagging if at all possible …. don’t know why.
Also, in the ocean sharks do not normally surface, typically they stay down as far as 1000 feet … they only come up out of curiosity over boats or if there is something on the surface that attracts them.
Trivia: in Australia you can find sharks in our rivers thousands of kilometers inland. Never swim in an Aussie river 🙂
Argos raise to the surface and transmit at 400 Khz or so (again, on page 8 of this blog) but the action of rising to and lowering from the surface can cause noise at between 20 and 100 Khz .. apparently the mechanics of exchanging oil from one place to another within the drone does it.
There is also another ocean drone that looks like a torpedo and apparently they too roam the Indian Ocean .. not sure of their name yet.
Katie – your 8:03
An oxygen tank explosion would happen directly below the pilot’s cabin and might well destroy all communications systems including the entertainment system which handles the satellite phones for the first class passengers. The explosion would blow a hole in the fuselage directly below the co-pilot and might even melt the pilot’s cabin in as little as three minutes.
Two picture of a fire on a modern plane, three minutes later these were the results:
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/03/28/article-2591402-1CA3EBAE00000578-270_634x478.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/72698/large/egypt_b772_su-gdb_cairo_110729_2.jpg?1394609191
Cell phones do not work way up in the air. the plane has to be at a very low altitude and be flying fairly slow for the cell phones to work provided they are within a short distance from a receiving tower.
Katie – Again, your 8:03
Think of an Argentinian Exocet striking a British aluminum hulled destroyer, once the fire gets going nothing can put them out, the aluminum simply melts away and adding water to the fire only increases the ferocity of it.
(Simple explanation mind you, also, extinguishers on a plane are not water based but still, very little can put out an aluminum fire)
NSA has long had the ability in Australia to eavesdrop directly on any international communications, and all kinds of sigint, as Helen Caldicott has described in Missile Envy, p. 125ff.
Interesting that it has said nothing, as far as I have seen, about the crash.
@Q 10 Apr, 2014 – 5:20 pm
“Very curious, it is, that although investigators have taken great interest in the pilot’s home flight simulator, which could be an ordinary, gaming program that the average Joe uses for recreation and relaxation, they don’t seem to have any interest the professional flight simulators which Malaysia Airlines opens to the public for a fee.”
Reputedly Capt Shah was running Microsoft’s flight simulator. That simulator can be enhanced with many plug-ins such as ACARS, which are written by enthusiasts and downloaded for free or as shareware.
Initially, people asked how a pilot could afford a simulator at home, thinking it was an airline model with panoramic video projection and motion simulation. It seems his greatest expense would be the yokes, pedals, throttles and flight management system, which looked to be top-line.
Trow yes, that’s what I mean about no calls received, in other words an electrical fire would have given them time to make calls when they were changing height, which is why I rule fire out.
Donald 9-46
That’s a pretty wrecked cockpit !!
Yes re;phones,that was going to be my next question.
Cell phones will only work then over land or near the coast, at a lower altitude & not out at sea at high altitude…….. mmmm….. so IF that was the plane flying low over the Maldives passengers could have made calls………if they were alive.
So, at what height was flight 93 on 9/11 ?
I think you guys are missing several points !
The “sky” is like a big motorway system.
You can’t just say “fly to Beijing”, you have to use waypoints to get there.
When you talk of “auto pilot” you should also talk about “Flight Director”.
You can’t just say “fly there” you have to say “how do I fly there”.
Oxygen on an aircraft.
There are tanks on an aircraft that feed Oxygen to the pilots. This is done via masks. All pax and cabin crew Oxygen is feed via individual canisters (initiated when a “pellet” is fired into the canister and so creates a “chemical” reaction). Pax “Oxy” lasts only for a short time. Enough time for the a/c to reduce altitude.
Flight “endurance”.
Obviously the higher you fly, the air is thinner, the better “burn” you get.
The “faster” you fly, the more fuel you burn.
Therefore the speed and the altitude matter….when you are looking at “endurance” or how far you can go.
Radar
Primary Radar “plot” aircraft. The plot is not watched but “auto” managed. It is only a threat if it moves towards a “target” (be that “the mainland” lets say).
If an operator has not been asked (in this case Indonesia wasn’t) to follow a plot, then they won’t. It isn’t a threat.
Fire Onboard.
A fire on an aircraft is probably the most “scary” thing you have to concern yourself with. You are “more than likely” to get an indication of a “probable” fire onboard. You will turn the aircraft “near” to somewhere, sort your route inbound…and call for help. (NOTE, this aircraft flew on for several hours, that to me indicated there was no fire onboard) Also…. you will do a “NITS” at this point also. Nature, Intention, Time, Special instruction. The door FDD will be opened.
THIS aircraft has
Lost all comms/contact.
Changed route.
Climbed and descended.
Changed route several times.
Then head “south”.
Someone with knowledge was in control.
I would say they then put a waypoint on tracking mode for YWKS (as a waypoint).
My problem is, how did one pilot make the other pilot leave the cockpit.
Because “it was done” at the absolute precise time of hand over from one ATC controller to another. The “black hole”.
And the “likely” route.
Using IGREX and YWKS (the “divert was to Penang).
http://skyvector.com/
Katie – Your 10:37 “…..So, at what height was flight 93 on 9/11 ?…….”
I think you just had an enlightening moment …. the planes descended from a high altitude but they were only low for a few minutes, not enough for them long conversations we were all told about.
And don’t forget, back then the satellite phone systems had not yet been installed.
James,
Yes, yesterday it was announced that the final words before sign off were not spoken by the co-pilot but in fact the Pilot himself….he was skilled & experienced so that does rather implicate him, though I understand that could be useful for any dark forces who had ill intent.
Can the plane be pre-programmed ,on a timer before being airborne & unbeknown to the pilot,meaning once the program kicked in the Pilot could not change it ?
Donald, are you saying no one ever uttered the words ‘Let’s roll’ ?
I always thought that sounded more like an American movie than a life threatening event . 😉
Unconfirmed report says Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 black box has been found
SIMON BENSON, JENNIFER RAJCA AND NETWORK WRITERS
NEWS CORP AUSTRALIA
APRIL 11, 2014 3:03PM
RESCUE teams are now within “several” kilometres of what they are now confident are the black box flight recorders from missing Malaysian plane MH370, Prime Minister Tony Abbott has revealed.
‘The Prime Minister will meet personally with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing this afternoon to update him on the latest efforts to find the black box, hinting that it would soon be located.’
http://m.perthnow.com.au/news/unconfirmed-report-says-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-black-box-has-been-found/story-fniztvnf-1226880483186v
Is this meeting for a choreographed announcement ?
Would transporting 4 tonnes of Mangosteens be interesting if the season for Mangosteens isnt March?
http://www.malaysia-chronicle.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=260962:then-from-where?-now-igp-says-mh370-mangosteens-not-from-muar-suspicious-cargo&Itemid=2#axzz2yZJK2t2P
http://www.rauhoaquavietnam.vn/default.aspx?tabID=10&ID=77&LangID=2&NewsID=2608
I know this is for Vietnam and not Malaysia but for Vietnam the season appears to be late April until the end of August
Found Malaysia:-
Harvesting Period
In Malaysia, the fruits usually ripens from May to July. It usually corresponds to the durian season.
http://malaysianfruits.wordpress.com/2009/08/19/mangosteen/
Where is William Hershkovitz, now that we need him more than ever!
What we know in simple terms is that this plane disappeared from Radar, we know if was tracked by Malaysian Military radar there after, what we have to think about is what would happen next what is the procedure? the plane is geographically able to fly to some very unstable states and countries it must have been seen as a threat especially when half of the UAE government and Will and Kate are holidaying in the Maldives(as well as a top secret US/UK owned Military base). They would have found and intercepted the plane and probably destroyed it if it didnt respond!!! But then why did it fly for 7 hours after this period? intercepted and flown to a safe haven?
Why would if fly to the coast of Australia, why?
Katie – “…Donald, are you saying no one ever uttered the words ‘Let’s roll’ ? I always thought that sounded more like an American movie than a life threatening event …”
The plane that crashed in the field of Pennsylvania was traveling so fast that it apparently shredded itself into dust, worse than the one that hit the pentagon that left no traces.
At that speed a cell network tower would not have had the time to make the connection before it lost it again 🙂
It allegedly flew to Australia because it would be the only possible country to check it on radar. thanks to the NSA’s ability to do so there, and Australia’s new PM has the hutzpah to tell the Chinese President all about why he is so confident that it crashed off the Northwest Cape.
Makes the lies by other states look like child’s play.