I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
” There is some debate over what this is, and whether it came from a military aircraft.”
But they missed an opportunity to provide charts and diagrams from industry experts, Q. :
It’s cognitive dissonance for them to discuss, because of the ‘search is complicated and vast’ meme.
Q
The “pilot suicide” theory is far from “out to lunch”.
Simply “we don’t know what happened” …yet.
As for experience. The Captain has 18,365 hours on the clock.
No doubt “a lot” of that time flying routes out of KUL.
Donald
What makes you think it never left the South China sea area ?
Ricki; What a ‘revoltin’ development. Iran has their own kind of ‘honey trap’; money.
Boeing/GE just doin’ bizness the old fashioned way. :
Have you reviewed BUAP?
Q.
Straw posted about those mangosteens,saying it very odd they were on the plane at that time as they are not in season yet.
Then as BB & myself also questioned why on earth China would be importing Lithium batteries when they make millions themselves, personally I that is BS & a fictitious cargo.
Ricki, yes I remember the posting about the dancers & the false passports……which leads to the question of what happens to them when they have served their purpose, it looks as though they get returned to someone ,somewhere for reuse….don’t you think ?
@Katie: I wondering if the mangosteens were actually shipped in juice form, which might account for the liquid of some sort that was shipped on MH370?
Note the Japanese company which acted as the shipper for the Motorola lithium ion batteries. Note that not all cargo shipments on commercial passenger jets don’t actually have to be verified yet. I assume the date for this is August 1, 2014, but the website doesn’t show the year of this regulation. IOW, what’s in that crate or container? Okay, we’ll take your word for it.
Japan and China aren’t playing well together at the moment, are they?
Still want to find the Asiana Flight 214 manifest to determine if the two Iranians, pretending to be Italian Luigi Maraldi, and Austrian Christian Kozel on the Malaysia flight,, were on that flight too.
Would go a long way to determine who brought down MH370 since they were in China when the Asiana flight left Shanghi.
James – If I am good at one thing it is finding things, I have a knack for it born from many years of research .. when people are willing to give up on a search so readily and then move into uncharted territory with so little proof it makes something at the back of my neck start itching.
Why did the Vietnamese, who were the first to say the plane had crashed, give up on the search so readily as soon as Malaysia said there was some confusion over the plane’s location? They didn’t even wait for confirmation from Malaysia, they simply stopped and went home.
Why did they search only certain areas but not the entire area where they themselves had said the plane had crashed?
Is it possible that the search was shifted so that debris near Vietnam could be cleared up?
There are too many questions left unanswered in that area of the search … far too many.
Interesting…http://www.fastcolabs.com/3028265/how-i-narrowed-down-the-location-of-malaysia-air-using-monte-carlo-data-models
“One obvious conclusion from the difficulty of locating the MH370 over these past two plus weeks is that if rent-a-cars can have monitoring devices which track their whereabouts at all times, as can a several hundred dollar Windows Phone or iPhone with the swipe of a button, then so should an aircraft which costs over a quarter billion dollars. (A Boeing 777-200ER is listed at $261.5 million on Wikipedia.) Running such a location system on a separate electrical system, similar to the way in which engine pings are done, might be a one-time technical design challenge but is not as great (or possibly even as costly) as the recovery task for the MH370, in the coming weeks, months, or years until the final reports on what happened are released.”
Donald @ 5:28. off the coast of VN two witnesses saw a burning plane; an Australian oil-worker on a platform and a Vietnamese fisherman
Trowbridge – The two Iranians arrived in Malaysia via Qatar using their own passports, not the stolen ones.
“…..Speaking in Paris later on Tuesday, Interpol Secretary General Ronald Noble said the two men had travelled from Qatar’s capital Doha on their Iranian passports, and switched to stolen Italian and Austrian passports to board the Malaysia Airlines flight…..”
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-26525281
Q.
You could be right.
‘US and Japan send message to China
The US is stepping up efforts to defend Japan against threats from North Korea and China. Several disputed islands in the South and East China Sea have the potential to threaten the stability of the entire region.’
‘”If the US was to slip up in its commitment to Japan, it would lose its foothold and presence in the region…and, in doing so, could well hand over the region to a more expansionist China,” Schwarck added. The backbone of US-Japanese relations is a bilateral security treaty Washington signed in 1951 with Toykyo requiring it to respond should Japan be attacked.’
http://www.dw.de/us-and-japan-send-message-to-china/a-17551665
http://minivannews.com/news-in-brief/suspected-explosive-washed-up-on-baarah-beach-80941
“An unidentified object suspected to be an explosive has washed up on Haa Alif atoll Baarah southern beach, Vnews has reported.
According to Maldives Police Service the object was reported early morning today, and is currently under the authority of Maldives National Defense Force (MNDF).
MNDF has confirmed that it is in fact an explosive devices and is currently being investigated by their officials who went to the island today.
Local media, referring to the pictures of the object, has said it looks like a naval mine.”
http://utcaerospacesystems.com/cap/products/Pages/fire-protection-systems.aspx
http://www.ameronglobal.com/mass/products/index.php?page=6
http://www.avsoft.com/index.php?q=node/3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giEp40Q9Z3o
Other:
http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-news/faulty-oil-pipe-to-blame-for-qantas-incident-says-report-20101203-18itw.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolls-Royce_Trent
Ben – Your 5:37 – So did a woman on an other plane flying somewhere in the same region — That makes for three eyewitnesses and plenty of contradictory reports with no proof to discredit them.
Q – it is a fire suppression tank, here are some comparisons
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-1EY9OmVX1io/UzWymRkcVNI/AAAAAAAAlpc/GCROMx1NTRo/s1600/firebott.jpg
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=777+fire+suppression+bottle&client=firefox-a&hs=tv0&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=_BtIU7TqDIPq8AXeuYDACw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1024&bih=625#facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=pP_wPThEat0HWM%253A%3B7UFXQDWjgA0OrM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252F3.bp.blogspot.com%252F-1EY9OmVX1io%252FUzWymRkcVNI%252FAAAAAAAAlpc%252FGCROMx1NTRo%252Fs1600%252Ffirebott.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ftraveloscopy.blogspot.com%252F2014%252F03%252Fconspiracy-theories-in-mh370.html%3B600%3B600
Good, Donald.
Shows that they apparently only used the stolen passports when involved in airliner terrorism, and their own when wanting to set up Iran.
The residents alerted the police who handed it over to the military.
Haaveru then reported on March 26 that residents had assumed the object to be a bomb or sea mine, but the Maldives National Defence Force (MNDF) said it was not an explosive device.
It also quoted an experienced local aircraft engineer, who wished to remain anonymous, as saying that the object is “very likely” to be a fire suppression bottle from an aircraft, but could not say which type of aircraft without seeing it in person and cross-checking the part number on it.
Read more: http://www.fz.com/content/mh370-object-washed-ashore-plane-sighting-causes-stir-maldives#ixzz2yb77lw7i
Ben and Trowbridge – I think all together what we have here is the makings of a possible answer. Lets hope we don’t all end up in Diego Garcia with out faces dipped in ice water 🙂
Googled 777 fire suppression bottle. Boeing could make it for military aircraft as well, but were any lost in the vicinty?
http://www.google.com/search?q=pic+777+fire+suppression+bottle&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&imgil=Tq2rGPD7vRWpWM%253A%253Bhttp%253A%252F%252Ft3.gstatic.com%252Fimages%253Fq%253Dtbn%253AANd9GcRapawUK2M9KDa5K8aKjijKqBNfiHL344Gp-XYh-lDfISgXKK4tLg%253B893%253B524%253B0W0QJqaN7N6KGM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.pprune.org%25252Frumours-news%25252F535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost-414.html&source=iu&usg=__7IwmzVOGpyaT0b_ek3JU7_53K_k%3D&sa=X&ei=dB1IU8qAGaiiyAGBmoGYDA&ved=0CCoQ9QEwAA#facrc=_&imgrc=Tq2rGPD7vRWpWM%253A%3B0W0QJqaN7N6KGM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.b737.org.uk%252Fimages%252Ffirebottles.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.pprune.org%252Frumours-news%252F535538-malaysian-airlines-mh370-contact-lost-414.html%3B893%3B524
Sorry, Donald. You posted that already. 🙂
Donald.
You have a “knack” !
Well then. No need for proof and evidence. Why didn’t you say !
All that expense could have been saved.
But allow me a minute !
MH370 was to pass over Vietnamese territory and under their control.
Once the transponders are “off” and there is no contact, Vietnam ATC no doubt feared the worst.
This is borne out by the fact “someone” in Vietnam had the where with all to contact Malaysian S&R…. and they dispatched search aircraft to that area.
Once the aircraft was plotted heading back in Malaysian air space, Vietnam ceased their activities….and no doubt with a great “phew” ! Think of the cost ! It’s not their responsibility now.
If anyone has really “dropped the ball” here (and in a big way, it is firmly at the feet of the Malaysians. From the “get go” they have balls up the whole thing.
On a “bizarre” note.
I have no love lost with the Malaysians at KUL airport. But that’s another story.
And may be…in the end….linked to this story. I’ll wait and see.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhostrEx
Note what happens when the fire suppressant comes into contact with liquid. Would the containers of mystery liquid on MH370 hasten the damage done by a fire? Donald has already mentioned what happens when water and aluminum mix in a fire. What effect would an alkaline liquid, such as “mangosteen juice” have?
I posted a Youtube link about engine fire systems for jets, and noted that the system is designed to work when the engines continue to fly.
They like parking them in the sea in S/E Asia !
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/news/resort-airports-in-stormy-se-asia-leave-safety-to-chance/
James; A question. Why are the flight crew enabled to turn off transponder?
Straw
Great find regarding the mangosteen harvesting period.
So then, there were no fresh mangosteens.
How could the malaysian authorities then – as supposed and announced by the gov – talk to the harvest workers? Like with the lithium batteries the cargo is fake.
There was a different cargo …. if that plane did even exist.
James – the High ranking officer who at first said the plane had crashed near Vietnamese territory was in charge of ground to air missile batteries, therefore he would have been to the first to be informed of any developments.
It is entirely possible for the young co-pilot to have switched off the transponder by accident then having taken too long to respond to a Vietnamese request in bad English got his plane shot out of the sky while the pilot was taking a leak or fiddling with a stewardess in the pilot’s rest cabin.
Also the plane might have been hit, depressurized, and then did a quick turn entirely by accident and began to wander all over the sky .. one never really knows with these things until some hard evidence is found.
Look up the officer, too late for me, I’m off to bed but I shall search him out tomorrow night and see what else he has to offer us 🙂
Ben – The transponder switch is to the left of the co-pilot, it need to be able to be turned off in case of a fire or other mishap, the crew needs to isolate equipment one at a time in order to find the offending piece of equipment.
“”Generally, you do always want it on,” Doug Moss, a former test pilot and aircraft accident investigator, told Business Insider. But that’s not the case at airports with surface radar movement equipment, which gives air traffic controllers the precise position of aircraft on the ground. At those airports, data from the plane’s transponder is unnecessary and can make things confusing. It “clutters up the radar screen for the ground controllers,” Moss said.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/why-plane-tracking-systems-can-be-turned-off-2014-3#ixzz2ybCfn0Yo
So while on the ground, it interferes with traffic control. Why is it not on auto as soon as the altimeter records lift-off? This seems a simple thing. Probably overlooked in the Uninteruptible auto pilot anti-terror hardware. 🙂
http://www.geaviation.com/company/aviation-history.html
http://money.cnn.com/2013/05/16/news/companies/boeing-777-engines/index.html
http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/airline_safety/safo/all_safos/media/2008/SAFO08014.pdf
No updates:
http://www.fz.com/content/mh370-object-washed-ashore-plane-sighting-causes-stir-maldives
Mangosteen. The forbidden fruit in the USA due to pests.
Hard to cultivate. Doesnt grow easy.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/09/dining/09mang.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
How often does transponder fail?
http://www.lawfareblog.com/2014/03/turning-off-transponders-aviation-security-and-mh370/
“With the caveat that I am not a pilot, my understanding is that the ability to turn things off in flight is due in part to historical aviation “lessons learned” from onboard fires. Obviously, a fire onboard an in-flight airplane is very bad news, and to the extent that electrical systems have often been the source of such fires, planes are often designed so that pilots can take action to shut off electricity flow to various on-board systems.
Now, it’s certainly possible to do a risk-based analysis to assess, in this day and age, whether it still makes sense to have the transponder circuit breaker accessible from the cockpit. Even if someone were to conclude that pilot access should be removed (and I am not saying I back that conclusion, just that, it is a possible conclusion someone could make), there would be both mechanical and cultural obstacles to actually implementing that change in the thousands of aircraft in commercial service today.
I’ve also heard of (extremely rare) cases where transponders malfunctioned in flight and started transmitting the *wrong* altitude. Obviously, that’s worse than no transponder at all. When that happens, the pilot can turn off the transponder and then contact ATC with altitude info – cumbersome, but much better than allowing the malfunctioning transponder to continue to send incorrect info to ATC.