I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
“…the one person, #21, who didn’t board and took a later morning flight was an American”.
What was the later flight that morning ? (and Where is the edit function !)
A reader’s comment re money, politics and maintenance at Malaysian Airlines:
http://discussion.theguardian.com/comment-permalink/34675259
The worlds’ spies and militaries are all saying, “We didn’t see nuttin, nada, zilch and zero. Our radars were off or pointed in the wrong direction, or don’t work at night. Our satellites didn’t see anything or track any RF signals. Our underwater sensors didn’t hear anything. Why would we be watching the South Indian Ocean anyway, nothing ever happens there.”
There are saying this because:
A — They don’t want to reveal to adversaries how good their technology is.
B — They don’t want to reveal to adversaries how bad their technology is, and reveal to citizens how much money was wasted on ineffective surveillance.
NR
Interesting. And he (if it is he we are talking about) seems to know the “local” landscape. I didn’t know there was an arson attack. That is interesting.
The battery data he gives is also true. It is a “min” of 30 days on data recorder batteries. That’s the “absolute”. (Depth and conditions do come into play of course).
Also on CVR’s you can retrieve longer than 2 hours previous. (It was shorter).
But on a “quiet” deck, you can pull more data. A CVR doesn’t work like a “recorder” as such (a few hours more than 2 maybe the limit).
NR
The US spent millions trying to detect the USSR “silent subs” that never even existed. Spending OPM (Other Peoples Money) is not a new thing.
And when the US couldn’t detect the “non existent” sub, they said “Hell, that’s how good this thing is, we need to spend more”.
It’s a game they play. “Tax n Spend”
“It may still strike some readers as odd why we are so convinced that Israel is involved in the missing flight 370 case. It’s not only because the use of false passports and fake pictures are the Mossad’s trademarks. No, it’s also because they are known to wage war against governments and communities who are very friendly towards Palestine and the Palestinian people. Governments like Malaysia, who openly state that they will be:
“fighting for the establishment of a Palestinian state”
“spearheading humanitarian outreach programmes in conflict areas such as Gaza, the West Bank, Southern Thailand, Mindanao & elsewhere”
https://truthnewsinternational.wordpress.com/category/asia/
A couple of examples of Israeli intent toward Malaysia are given above, including this
http://www.mysinchew.com/node/57516
The news outlets have been pounding on the drum (Malaysia) of blame just as they continue to discuss the ‘difficult and daunting’ task of finding the plane with all the bells and whistles of technology. Of course all this is meaningless without the smoking gun. (Waiting for the hammer to fall on the bullet) That is coming for sure.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/malaysia-pm-visits-gaza-in-show-of-solidarity-with-palestinians-1.495591
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/23/world/middleeast/hamas-paints-malaysian-premiers-visit-as-stand-against-israel.html?_r=0
http://www.thechoice.my/featured-articles/45382-malaysia-furthers-efforts-to-support-palestine
Just thought i’d sneak a wee look in…. Fascinating
Ben, good points Re Mossad ect… part of a two pronged threat… Against Russia and China ALL at the Very same Time… Dangerous Goings on…
Off again leave you all too it
Good work NR, the guy seems to have had a lot to say about MH370…. 212 comments,just look at his comment/profile page;
https://id.theguardian.com/profile/id/12086801/public
Like James,I didn’t know about this either;
‘Then on 26 March the avionics records for MH370 were torched at the no.4 maintenance hanger at Kuala Lumpur airport so that now, we cannot ever investigate the maintenance records for the lost aircraft.’
Ben.
I see no connection there.
Of course Malaysia supports Palestine they are all muslims, doesn’t every other muslim country feel the same ?
Yes.
The Koran tells them to.
Israel has enough on her plate without plotting a complicated hijack of a civilian plane with 239 passengers, not Malaysian military or even scientists.
Look at the countries involved in the apparent cover up & ask yourself whether they would be willing to cover for Israel ? …… Then ask again, which country ‘would’ they all be willing to cover for ?
A lucky guy ………
BUSINESS
Freescale employee was almost on missing airplanePeter Corbett, The Republic | azcentral.com;Mar 11, 2014
The Associated Press
A passenger holds his passport and boarding pass after he checked in his more
A Freescale Semiconductor project manager from Mesa narrowly avoided being on the ill-fated Malaysia Airlines flight that disappeared en route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing.
“” style=”border: 0px; vertical-align: bottom;”>
Wayne McCleve, 49, took a later morning flight instead of the flight that left the Malaysian capital at 12:41 a.m. Saturday.
The 239 people aboard Flight MH370 included 20 Freescale employees who worked with McCleve.
Freescale, based in Austin, has facilities all over the world, including at 2100 E. Elliot Road in Tempe.
News bulletins about the missing Boeing 777-200 led to some anxious moments just after 6 p.m. Friday Arizona time for McCleve’s wife, Camette, 46, and their six daughters.
“I was (panicked) only for a little bit until I could confirm that was not his flight,” Camette said Monday.
She said she checked her iPad to confirm her husband’s itinerary on a flight that took off hours later on Saturday morning.
“I instantly got some relief,” Camette said. “I just couldn’t wait to talk with my husband.”
She finally spoke with him at 4:30 a.m. Saturday Arizona time.
Wayne, an engineer, flew to Malaysia on Feb. 8, his wife said.
The Freescale workers were spending four weeks in Malaysia and four weeks in Tianjin, China, to set up processes for two new factories, Camette said.
“He got to know them very well,” she said of the missing Freescale employees.
Freescale declined to comment about Wayne McCleve and the employees on the missing flight. In a statement, the company said it was “deeply saddened by this news.”
“At present, we are solely focused on our employees and their families,” said Gregg Lowe, Freescale president and CEO.
Freescale makes microprocessors and microcontrollers for automobiles, medical devices, appliances and other applications.
Camette said her husband was flying back to Phoenix from China and was expected to arrive this evening.
“I’m very anxious,” Camette said. “I just want to have him home. After a plane goes missing, that’s a little scary.”
http://www.azcentral.com/story/money/business/2014/03/11/freescale-employee-was-almost-on-missing-airplane/6290471/
@katie 23 Apr, 2014 – 6:25 am
“Good work NR, the guy seems to have had a lot to say about MH370…. 212 comments,just look at his comment/profile page;”
https://id.theguardian.com/profile/id/12086801/public
I’ve only read the first page of his comments, but this one is worth posting here. Apparently he has access to the Inmarsat burst frequency offset data. It’s what I’ve always thought, they worked backward from a crash/ditching point in the Indian Ocean to force the Inmarsat data to fit.
It’s not that Inmarsat was necessarily in on it, but if they had info from a very high source that a likely end point was the Indian Ocean they’d be inclined to try various start- points (after the turn), tracks, speed, altitude, fuel, etc. to see what produced the desired result.
Recall that it was an unnamed Pentagon source that was first credited with the line, “It’s at the bottom of the Indian Ocean.” The Malaysians claim the White House told them that, and the US moved one navy ship from the South China Sea to the other side of the Straits of Malacca. Later, the US said they heard it first from the Malaysians. This was all while they were still refining the Inmarsat data. And why say it was at the bottom of the sea; it could have ditched?
“22 Apr 2014 11:00pm
MAS asked SITA for the INMARSAT data and then asked the British AAIB to analyse the satellite ping track data, but asked AAIB to use the data to plot movements from the Straits of Malacca.
This then predetermined the assumptions of that analysis. There is no sound evidence that MH370 ever flew through the Straits and the military radar track revealed to relatives at the Lido Hotel in Beijing on 21 March differs greatly from what Malaysia told the world and actually shows the plot of SIA68.
If you take the doppler shift data and plot it against the east west displacement of MH370 for portions of the flight when the aircraft was under surveillance, then it appears the AAIB inverted the data values to make the plot fit the theory of MH370 flying west.
At times when MH370 was seen on radar flying east the Burst Offset Frequency chart implies MH370 was flying west towards the satellite.
For this reason it is hard to imagine the satellite ping tracking wasn’t an elaborate ruse to conceal the abilities of JORN.
If JORN didn’t pick up MH370 and I was an Australian taxpayer, then I would demand my money back from the Government.”
Blue….
So how did he get to PEK ?
They may have changed the schedules. Then again they may have not….
But I can see three direct flights. One early morning and two in the evening.
Did he go “via, via” ? That’s the only choice at 12.45 on Saturday
Air Asia to Singapore then onto PEK ? Does he like waiting at airports ??
You don’t “miss” midnight check in’s. 23.00 show. 00.25 go.
A couple of beers. A spot of dinner and a sleep. Business Class.
Just seems “odd” that the company are going for the “expo” which was in a couple of days….and he decides not to fly direct ?
Katie; Israel is not above suspicion just because the charge of antisemitism is designed to intimidate. Judaism is not Zionism but Zionists would like you to think they are one and the same; ergo untouchable.
They are quite active and have sufficient compliance from those nations who can be intimidated because the electorate operates on low information and primarily feel guilt for their real or imagined complicity in the genocidal past.
Zionism predates the Hotel David Bombing and the USS Liberty, but these early examples of Zionist terrorism are tame precursors to their global ambitions. They go out of their way to punish pro-Palestinan sympathies. I wouldn’t dismiss the possibility they are entwined.
@Trowbridge H. Ford
22 Apr, 2014 – 5:24 pm
Trow, you’re just being far too conspiratorial .. the digits simply referred to the number of postings on this thread .. it just gave me some satisfaction to be the 2000th!!
Sometimes, just sometimes, simple things like that amuse me.
Assumed by the numbers that you were being serious about the DM, not just engaging in narcissistic trolling.
I read the number 2001, what now appears as 2000, with the idea that that was one of the years that the DM became Britain’s newspaper of the year.
And one cannot be too conspiratorial about dealing with the crash, as the researchers are now trying to justify where they have been searching by trying to explain how a piece of metal from it might have washed up on the Australian coast, south of Perth!
Wonder if they continue in this medieval way of thinking if they really find the wreckage where it is!
@Katie 6:25 am: With many of the major airlines subcontracting maintenance these days, some flying planes continents away for cost savings, maintenance records are always a critical part of investigations. This must be especially true in an aircraft that lost its wingtip in a runway collision less than two years prior to vanishing.
I have never seen any of the airplane manufacturers complaining publicly about this widely-accepted practice, which seems on the surface to be something like buying a Mercedes, then taking it to Joe’s back-alley discount garage for oil changes. Perhaps that is unfair, as maintenance operations in certain countries do follow the rules, and are inspected and regulated, just like the airlines themselves. However, is Malaysia one of those kinds of countries? I posted a while back about Boeing giving MH370 its clearance to fly after the wingtip incident. Question is, would Boeing have inspected the other critical components of the plane at that time, or was it only the wingtip? Do manufacturers have compulsory maintenance contracts which they oversee, or do they require maintenance technicians and mechanics to pass manufacturers’ courses, or is that left to prudence, or individual countries’ laws to decide?
At your link, 22 Apr 2014 10:14pm, is important information. Seems like the source has knowledge on this topic.
Further to my post, I do not believe the Montreal Convention would apply if the airline’ maintenance records were faulty. An improperly-maintained aircraft would open the doors to unlimited liability, non?
The lawsuit against Boeing and Malaysia Airlines:
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/crashes/lawsuit-could-force-release-of-mh370-maintenance-records-16639052
The law firm is involved in a lawsuit over the Asiana crash.
@NR, Katie: Sy, or Simon Gunson, of New Zealand (why do I find that interesting) is also found here, with commenters questioning his sources:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/flight-mh370-speculation.3264/page-18
Sy Gunson is an advocate of Occam’s Razor, as seen on page 21:
https://www.metabunk.org/threads/flight-mh370-speculation.3264/page-21
There are niche hobbies all over the world, like train spotting, with a subdivision into further types of trains, like steam engines, etc.
Naturally, there are plane spotters, and they are well familiar with 9M-MRO:
http://www.planespotters.net/Production_List/Boeing/777/28420,9M-MRO-Malaysia-Airlines.php
http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/04/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane-spotters/
This is a dedicated hobby. Do investigators ever consider contacting hobbyists like this for photos, documentation, etc.? Some follow specific types of planes, or specific planes, documenting each minute detail. Some take holidays specifically to fly on specific planes, or photograph them land.
Having met some of these types, they are very dedicated to this hobby.
I don’t want to turn this into the “Sy” Simon Gunson show, but the persona has niche hobbies of his own, including this one linked on his FB page:
https://sites.google.com/site/naziabomb/
Q
MH370 is the flight number not the aircraft itself.
With the Montreal Convention, it’s a trade off. When the airline is at absolute fault…the still get limited liability.
And most of the time they don’t want to pay out even that.
SwissAir (Swiss 111) held out for five years !
The battle is getting the airline to pay out (in line with the Convention) even though the Convention offers them substantial protection (I believe too much protection).
Now if Boeing had (for example) a dodgy “part”. And they knew it was dodgy. And then there was a fatal incident….they that is a different matter.
The airline will “join in” the manufacturer and try to get them to pay.
And further….the manufacturer may well face other claims against them from the estates of the deceased and dependant etc.
I would “guess” that Malaysian Airlines are trying to figure out a strategy “not” to pay out. Hence this “emergency fund”.
The liability is 113,000 SDR’s. About $175,000 or 125.000 Euros.
Or 360 BitCoins ! (That mad !)
All very interesting Q, the guy has obviously given a lot of time & thought to this, he does make sense.
As for Boeings records on their MAS planes, surely they have the same feedback as RR ?
Meaning once the wing tip was passed fit to fly they still had data being fed to them during flying hours ?
But I can’t help feeling suspicious about that fire especially as we were told MAS were on the brink of bankruptcy anyway.
New Zealand ? Are you thinking of a certain Brett Martin …… I wonder if he’s commenting somewhere on this case?
Ben…you got a bit carried away there with your Zionism, no one mentioned anti semitism & didn’t really answer my question. 😉
Article 21 – Compensation in case of death or injury of passengers
1. For damages arising under paragraph 1 of Article 17 not exceeding 100,000 Special Drawing Rights for each passenger, the carrier shall not be able to exclude or limit its liability.
2. The carrier shall not be liable for damages arising under paragraph 1 of Article 17 to the extent that they exceed for each passenger 100,000 Special Drawing Rights if the carrier proves that:
(a) such damage was not due to the negligence or other wrongful act or omission of the carrier or its servants or agents; or
(b) such damage was solely due to the negligence or other wrongful act or omission of a third party.
That’s what they will be going to war on.
Article 17 is basically “it happened on the aircraft”.
And the SDR’s have gone up a bit now to 113 and change. Inflation ! Even in death.
Q, what an even more interesting chap, he should be on this site .
I assume he has never visited Craig’s blog, it sounds as though it would be right up his street ?
Australia, China, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, South Korea, the United Kingdom and the United States assisting with the search, Katie. I think Malaysia is the only one who might be quick to blame Israel if evidence were found, but who would believe them at this point?
I’m not selling hard on the Mossad being involved, but neither am I excluding from having a role.
Even if we had 5 dancing Israelis (as on 9/11) there would be a back door and plausible deniability.