I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
Ben,
I agree nothing & no one should be excluded, I’m just looking for a motive as to ‘why’ Israel would bother with this , I just cannot find any dots to connect.
No Iranian scientists, no high value muslims,Hamas,Hezbullah etc, were on board.
As the Israelis lead the field in much technology & won’t rule out that’s why the second MAS plane was in Tel Aviv.
Katie;
Actually, the MH 370 clone stored in Israel is the strongest evidence for their lack of complicity.
They are very careful, unless they are hiding in plain sight.
Katie;
don’t forget their are many uneasy alliances (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) extant throughout the World. Countermeasures for electronic warfare and related tech going to China affects many nations, including Israel
@Q 23 Apr, 2014 – 3:22 pm
“@Katie 6:25 am: With many of the major airlines subcontracting maintenance these days, some flying planes continents away for cost savings, maintenance records are always a critical part of investigations.”
Off Topic — Like the now abandoned Millardair MRO, that somehow obtained its MRO certification with a new, empty hangar, a few tools and mechanics and not much else.
MillardAir, when grandpa Carl ran it as an airline, bought US miltary surplus planes. Seems most started out at Naval Air Station, Naples, Florida, and many then went, for one example, from: Tracom Morocco 05Jun69 … Millardair Ltd L 11Jan86 – Western lnt’I Aviation, Tucson, AZ, B06Nov86 – Canx 27Jun88 – C-GJGQ Millardair… British Columbia Aviation Museum, Victoria, BC (Feb02).
Here you go Q
This from the Egypt Air (900) crash back in ’99.
Here the mother of a Gail Seidman mother died.
The crash is understood to be “pilot suicide/murder”.
In 2002 she was suing Egypt Air for $2.7 Million.
I’m not sure what was eventually settled. I’ll have a dig.
Here there were claims that it was due to the older F.O. getting told off previously (he appears to have been a “bit of a one for the ladies”). Also there were claims it was an act of terrorism (Some Egyptian military onboard) And there were also case involving Boeing and a component manufacturer (but I think some of those were dismissed. A couple of them in 2010 !). So take your pick !
No idea what was paid out in settlements to other passengers.
And by whom.
NR
Off topic.
You want to see some of the cr*p these ferry pilots have to pick up.
Old stuff which have been stood for months.
A blast of air-freshener…then off they pop on some charter job.
Only last year I saw an old (very early) MD 80 loading up with holiday makers.
No markings at all. An “Acme Airways” Special !
KiwiLand is full of skeptics including Duncan Steel, a New Zealand physics professor. He and two colleagues have been working on the Inmarsat Doppler Shift theory since it was first announced. He claims there is nothing that excludes the Northern Track.
James, so what checks, if any, are there to stop those pirates ?
One assumes they are foreign pilots too… who seem to have less respect for their own lives than an intelligent western pilot ?
@James 23 Apr, 2014 – 5:44 pm
That’s exactly what Millardair was doing with its surplus planes; holiday charters to Vegas and the Dominican Republic. Plus freight transport of automobile parts.
http://mae.malaysiaairlines.com/index.html
http://mae.malaysiaairlines.com/about.html
http://masgmr-aerotech.in/
http://masgmr-aerotech.in/customers.html
Providing maintenance services for other airlines worldwide. More facilities in Hyderabad, India.
The MRO facilities and operators currently using India as a base:
http://www.payloadasia.com/article/india-s-mro-sector-set-to-take-off/8004
What would happen to the service contracts for other airlines from around the world, if maintenance records, or the maintenance itself, were fhttp://masgmr-aerotech.in/ound to be faulty? Which airlines are currently using Malaysia Airlines Engineering services?
The opt-out:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-03-12/malaysian-air-said-to-opt-out-of-boeing-plan-to-share-jets-data.html
2011 – Rated ‘World’s Largest Airline MRO’ & ‘World’s No. 3 Aircraft MRO Provider’ by Aviation Week. From: http://mae.malaysiaairlines.com/profile.html
Who are the clients of Malaysia Airlines’ various maintenance subsidiaries?
Katie..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206672/Terrified-tourists-evacuated-plane-overshot-runway-skidded-grass-Birmingham-Airport.html
Notice the aircraft isn’t one of Monarch’s ????
Air Aurela
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aurela
“The Aurela fleet consists of the following aircraft (as of November 2012)”
“2 Boeing 737-300”
That’s one of ’em ! He’s mowing the grass a Birmingham.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vi9CQaO3GQQ
Here it is in the air.
I thought it was a war movie !
Expected to see wing mounted machine guns firing at the Japs !
@NR 5:16 pm: Are you talking about a world of shady, below-board dealings, corruption or bribery in order to get MROs approved? The Millardair heir now charged with three murders, including that of his own father, staged as a suicide by gunshot to one eye, is something else.
Automobile parts, hmmm, as in an off-market trade for Dodge Ram components? You don’t suppose there’s an off-market market for used airplane components, or fake “official” airplane parts at greatly-reduced cost, made in China, etc.?
For that matter, do MROs require barrels full of mysterious, unidentified liquids? If so, what’s in them, LNG, liquid nitrogen, liquid oxygen, cryogenic fuel, what?
http://www.dvidshub.net/news/114893/cryogenics-life-source-flying-force#.U1f1fVf4LA8
Never mind. On another matter, SG mentions in one of his many posts that he is interested in physics.
Q
There is a big market in second hand components (certain ones).
And “747 coffee makers”. They don’t come cheap.
All get re certified. That’s what happens when they get “de commissioned”.
Like “Trigger’s Broom”.
Five new heads, six new shafts. Original as the day it was made !
There seems to be a booming business in fake airplane parts these days, including fake computer chips for instrument displays. For further information, use search terms Hercules, Poseidon, THAAD, etc.
For years, articles like this have been appearing:
http://www.businessweek.com/stories/2008-10-01/dangerous-fakes
How do you suppose various militaries have been taken in by the scam? If maintenance is contracted out, who is going to catch this kind of thing?
What happens when airlines enact massive layoffs of maintenance employees earning first-world wages and subcontract maintenance contracts worldwide?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/aircraft-machinists-fear-for-future-of-aveos/article533973/
http://news.nationalpost.com/2012/05/29/air-canada-plane-debris-struck-cars-after-engine-failure-safety-board-confirms/
Who knows?
Idle speculation:
If Malaysia Airlines’ maintenance of its air fleet was faulty in some way, whatever way, and if records were not kept, or were altered, or destroyed, or “not available”, could they get out of compensating survivors of the deceased, Montreal Convention or not? Is it preferable to disappear a plane, or have its pilot declared “suicidal”, in order to get out of paying restitution? Why do “suicides” seem to be so prevalent among highly-skilled, highly-trained and highly-screened airline pilots?
Would any company which is currently using any of the Malaysia Airlines aircraft maintenance facilities, or which has used those facilities in the past, then have its aircraft called into question by the public or aviation regulatory bodies, possibly grounding those planes and bringing airlines around the world (many already on the financial brink) to their knees? Would those airlines and regulatory bodies have a vested interest in keeping such a thing quiet to prevent the economic fallout and mass panic by the public? Nah, that would be a conspiracy theory.
http://defensetech.org/2011/11/08/counterfeit-parts-found-on-new-p-8-posiedons/
https://www.google.ca/#q=poseidons+hunting+for+mh370
Even the kind of plane involved in the search for MH370 has had a counterfeit parts problem.
Q
The Australians better check their “over the horizon” radar then.
It’s probably full of Ford Escort MkII gearbox cogs….sanded down and painted “matt black” (for that “Military High tech look” that is so desired).
“How do you suppose various militaries have been taken in by the scam? If maintenance is contracted out, who is going to catch this kind of thing?”
Q:
According to my son who was @ camp Lejeune during sweltering days in North Carolina, the servers he used were housed in a non-air-conditoned shelter, making for inhuman working conditions for people and computers. The failure to keep them cool resulted in frequent replacement and no one seemed to give a shite. MILSPEC or military specifications require contractors (legitimate contractors) to have redundant over-kill for each item to be delivered. That’s why you hear about 400 dollar monkey-wrenches with specs down to micrometer detail.
If a diesel engine dies from a lack of oil; no problem. Just overhaul it. It’s not their money. Too much cheap money and no accountability is what makes Pentagon a monster of waste.
It wouldn’t be difficult to substitute counterfeit parts in the military, and I doubt there is any more job integrity in commercial airlines Even if some alert mechanic noticed a problem, the bureaucracy and fear of flight delays naturally discourages any but the most diligent. Are there diligent people around anymore? I have noticed there is plenty of apathy and incompetence throughout most levels of society.
@Ben-Smoker, joker, red-eyed toker 23 Apr, 2014 – 8:37 pm
“Are there diligent people around anymore? I have noticed there is plenty of apathy and incompetence throughout most levels of society.”
Partly explained by a sub-culture of illegal drugs. People are unlikely to complain or refuse to sign-off on a defective repair if it would interrupt their personal supply chain of substances.
Meth is a favorite of repair mechanics who consistently over-torque fittings — especially bad for soft metals like aluminum — and reassemble things in strange configurations. Though you get similar effects, to a lesser extent, from excessive legal coffee or energy drinks.
Then there’s pot for apathy and cocaine for arrogance and alcohol for general foolishness, not to mention mood-altering prescription drugs. It’s surprising anything gets done properly.
The illegal substances fit in with a culture of thievery and accepting counterfeit parts or supplying genuine ones diverted from your employer.
Regarding the Execujet maintenance employee, and the Execujet MRO in China:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/missing-malaysian-airlines-flight-mh370-3251229
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-hijack-suspects-father-fights-to-keep-hope-alive-and-insists-his-son-is-innocent-9203343.html
http://www.execujet.com/zh/press-releases/2012/3/execujet-haite-aviation-services-china-on-its-way-to-become-full-mro.aspx
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/abace-convention-news/2014-04-10/execujet-prepares-open-beijing-mro-base
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/execujet-eyes-aircraft-management-growth-in-asia-pacific-398388/
Nice touch, playing the theme song from Titanic in the hotel where the relatives were staying.
ExecuJet, then, is Malaysia Airlines’ competitor.
Aside:
The plane spotters have documented the planes involved in the search for MH370:
http://www.aviationwa.org.au/aircraft-photos-movements/air-search-for-missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-march-april-2014/
Q
I had mentioned before that coincidentally, Ali al Hilli, Saad’s brother, was the chief of technical maintanance of Malaysia Airlines before he did move on doing the same for Qantas. Our world is small. You’ll meet everybody twice in life.
NR; I guess it’s time to change my add-on nic. Just put it there to irritate Habakuk. 🙂
What’s this? ExecuJet is a client of MAS Engineering, the maintenance and training branch of Malaysia Airlines?
http://mae.malaysiaairlines.com/services-et.html
What is “Execujet (M) Sdn Bhd & Police Airwing (Malaysia)”?
Those mysterious mangosteens again, and the Malaysian police who are in charge of investigating the farm workers who picked them:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2595096/Malaysian-police-confirm-interviewed-farm-workers-handled-fruit-cargo-aboard-missing-MH370-case-used-smuggle-bomb-jet.html
Even Hobbits want a piece of the action:
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/peter-jackson-lends-private-jet-692901
Malaysia’s police pilots train here:
http://www.thestar.com.my/Story/?file=%2F2012%2F1%2F17%2Fsouthneast%2F10269483
The facility also trains pilots for commercial airlines. Where did MH370’s pilots train — alongside police pilots at the Malaysian Flying Academy (MFA) in Batu Berendam, or at one of the other flying schools that train police pilots?