I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
Melbourne’s glitch with its brand new INTAS ATC system:
http://www.itnews.com.au/News/367712,intas-glitch-shutters-flights-at-melbourne-airport.aspx
Subang had its famous glitch in 2012, and the same supplier had installed the new system for KLIA2.
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2012/06/25/dca-admits-to-minor-glitches/
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/nation/2012/09/21/investigate-air-traffic-system-failure/
From “minor glitch” to complete failure in a couple of months: remarkable.
Another transponder blackout over middle europe yesterday!
But this time there was no NATO drill nearby.
Law enforcement in Austria, Germany, Czech Rep. and Slovakia are investigating this event as a “terror attack”.
Due to experts there are only two options when there was no military drill nearby:
1) Satellites are deliberately being used to jam the transponders of the airplanes.
Only the USA, China, India and Russia have such satellites.
2) Hackers or terrorists did invent a method to “electronically or digitally” turn off transponder signals of the airplanes.
Why would they want to do this?
There’s one geo-stationary satellite hacked. The one over middle europe.
The hacker can fake and even turn off the transponder signals going through that satellite.
I suspect a huge blackmailing of airlines and governments to follow.
Turning off transponder signals might just be a test. The nightmare will start when the signals are being faked (e.g. wrong altitude).
This is the next step after 9/11 using airplanes as weapons for terror attacks. This time by using digitally hacked satellites.
What is your source for this?
Bluebird
Remember the ‘Martian piste’ over at TCK?
Looks like that crazy Martian wasn’t so crazy after all.
http://rt.com/news/165636-aircraft-disappear-radfars-austria/
A total of 13 aircraft suddenly vanished off radars for about 25 minutes on two occasions over Austria and neighboring countries, Austria’s flight safety monitor said, calling for an EU probe into the “unprecedented” incidents.
The flights vanished from air traffic controllers’ screens in Austria on June 5 and June 10 for 25 minutes each time, Marcus Pohanka of Austro Control – Austria’s flight safety organization – said Thursday.
Air traffic control in neighboring regions of Germany and the Czech Republic also reported similar problems.
I have made a suggestion to the Searching Authorities the Pilot may have added the destination of YWKS (Wilkins Airfield serving Casey Station in Antarctica)into the aircraft’s Flight Management System. (This ICAO point may already have been in the systems data bank).I calculate a flightpath from west of waypoint IGREX 9’43.28N from 88 degrees East (the point the US National Transport Safety Board showed its initial possible flightpath south commencing) to YWKS at 66’41.22S, 111’31.25E would intersect with the 7th arc determined as along which was the last communication received from the aircraft at 28 degrees South, 100 degrees East. This is not far from where the Chinese Patrol Vessel Haixun 01 reported picking up sounds suspected to be from the aircrafts black box on 8th April at 25 degrees South, 100 degrees West. If this suggestion is near the mark the aircraft could be within less than an hours flying time past the point of intersection with the 7th arc, seeing an expected transmition of engine data failed to be received at the next hour which would have been the 8th arc. Whilst the accurate assessment of the point of intersection would depend on the exact position of the aircraft when turning south I wonder why the NTSB thought the southern trajectory was along the degree of 88 degrees East, this being the degree of longitude rough maps would seem to indicate. Colin McLeod.
Thanks BB
Reference my post of 13th June 2014 at 8.46 please note I placed Haixun 01’s signal reception at 100 degrees West – Should have been 25 degrees South, 100 degrees East. My typo mistake – Sorry. Colin McLeod.
Some aircraft do fly at unusually-high levels as a matter of course:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/13/cia_rendition_jet_was_waiting_in_europe_to_snatch_snowden/
“Early next morning, N977GA was detected heading east over Scotland at the unusually high altitude of 45,000 feet. It had not filed a flight plan, and was flying above the level at which air traffic control reporting is mandatory.
“The plane showed up on our system at 5:20 on 25 June,” according to our source, a member of an internet aircraft-tracking network run by enthusiasts in the UK. “We knew the reputation of this aircraft and what it had done in the past.”
N977GA was not reporting its progress to air-traffic controllers, and thus it would normally have been necessary to use a massive commercial or military radar installation to follow its path. But, even if pilots have turned off automated location data feeds, ordinary enthusiasts equipped with nothing more than suitable radio receivers connected to the internet can measure differences in the time at which an aircraft’s radar transponder signal reaches locations on the ground. Using the technique of multilateration, this information is sufficient to calculate the transponder’s position and so track the aircraft. (The ACMS/ACARS data feeds which automatically report an aircraft’s position are a separate system from the transponder which responds to air-traffic radar pulses. They too can be picked up by receivers on the ground beneath, if they are activated.)”
Sound familiar?
Q Gulfstreams (et al) all fly above “normal commercial routes”.
That is the norm. Because we can. Higher and faster….and smoother.
Think of it as a “bus” in the slow lane….
….being overtaken by a “Ferrari” in the fast lane.
Blue 10 then 3 a/c disappear. Not heard much else re the investigation.
Clearly all 13 (and those days) had their respective transponders ON. And the Ground Equipment was in working order. So it’s interference between the two.
I think “NATO” got the blame “thus far”, but I’m unsure as to what actually happened. If not NATO, then who….would be the question.
james FYI
this is an english language source
there were certain airplane types targetted.
The first report was wrong in that they said that ALL airplanes disappeared.
The airplanes that disappeared from radar were particularly (or all of them?) the modern ones with sat-comm links like it is the 777.
http://rt.com/news/165872-military-exercises-planes-disappearing/
Blue….
That report seems quite unusual.
From what I can tell…. there were two incidents. One involved 10 a/c’s. The other involved 3 a/c’s. They were on two different days. On one day NATO was “coincidentally” conducting an exercise.
IF they were (and seems likely) then an investigation would indeed take place. And that would be the end of that.
Re SATCOM. It is a way of sending data. That’s all it is.
For example, your ACARS data would be sent via SATCOM when transatlantic.
What happened here is “specifically” the transponder information that was being squawked….went off the screen. However they still had radio communication with the aircraft concerned.
It seems really odd.
http://www.airtrafficmanagement.net/2014/06/probe-launched-into-aircraft-tracking-fail/
EASA and EUROCONTROL have been asked to investigate.
Oddly it would seem that FR24 DID NOT have anything “jammed”.
And Primary radar seemed operational (at least that’s how it seems).
james
yes. primary radar was still operational.
The first reports said that ALL airplanes vanished. That report was wrong.
There were individual planes that vanished. Just like MH370 while transponders of other planes stayed on screen.
How they manage to disintegrate the signals of certain airplanes i cannot understand. i thought that they can vanish the signals of either all of them by disrupting the waves/signals in an area or none of them. Perhaps military satellites can point their beams onto certain targets and vanish their transponder signals. That is what could have happened to MH370, too. Nobody then turned off the transponder inside the plane. We know that military can remotely turn off the transponder signals of every single plane they want to select whenever they want and as long as they like.And now we know that no other planes are necessary to do that. They can do this with their military satellites.
Blue…
And what you have said, is the thing.
It would appear “not a total shut down”.
However, MH370…
We have a “no contact”.
A “course change” (it would appear).
And no comms. (And that is a problem).
Blue…
For me, I don’t trust one side….and I don’t trust the other.
What has happened is likely to go “not investigated”.
Specifically…the “transponder only” data was jammed to “official” interpretation.
Likely via “inland” comms (VHF/HF).
That is a worry. A specific piece of apparatus was deemed “untraceable” although radio comms still remained active.
Where were the planes that were jammed manufactured? If certain makes were jammed, the link to the cause might be more obvious. Computer programs have back doors for the technicians.
Q
From reports…some LH, some SH.
So anything. 737’s to 380’s if passing thru.
Very odd.
Morning all.
Another article on this mystery, written by an ex pilot & a special program on BBC tomorrow night.
‘But the issue that requires most clarity remains the plane’s cargo. It took almost three weeks for the world to learn that MH370 had been carrying a consignment of lithium-ion batteries. But we do not know for sure how many. What else of a hazardous nature was being carried?
Published cargo records show neither the real shippers nor the real recipients.
The international community should demand total transparency from the Malaysians in regard to this.’
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10901856/Flight-MH370-What-are-they-hiding.html
@Katie: This is the thing. Regulations for air cargo transport providers will change soon, requiring inspection of said cargo. In a corrupt place like Malaysia, with corrupt port officials (reported in previous links), questionable and unknown cargo will be shipped again. Greased palms let things slide. It’s only a matter of time. Regulations without enforcement from outside are meaningless.
“Fresh mangosteen” in March might be checked a little more closely, though. False bottom crates of “fresh mangosteen” coming soon to an airport in Malaysia.
Meanwhile, we have heard nothing from anyone in the aviation industry, nor from government officials outside of Malaysia, demanding disclosure, or even questioning the questionable “fresh mangosteen” shipment. Why? Is there some bigger picture about air cargo on passenger planes around the world that we should not know? Does it involve luminescent fresh fruit out of season?
Q
Alas…will anything change ?
Cargo on airliners is big business.
I believe corruption also is.
A heady mix !
The article that Katie posted. The author talks of it being an “accident”.
I’ll go along with that “so far”..and then other issues come into the picture.
The a/c remained flying. And for some considerable time.
If the CB’s blew and could not be reset, then that would account for many things.
But to do that…it would had to have been a “rapid” event.
B777’s are tough old birds….but “that” tough they continue to fly ?
It would be the first a/c in history to have experienced a “rapid event” and remained airborne for such a period. (There are however many “first time it’s ever done that” in aviation).
There is also the “time” the event happened. Spot on the point of most confusion.
Signing off with Malay ATC, transferring to Thai ATC.
You are already on the radio. You have the other frequency pre programmed/or known. You simply say “Bye” to one guy and “hiya” to the other.
It is that “regular” you do it automatically. MAS370 didn’t.
But lets say the buses blew, he made couldn’t call out, he made a turn to Malaysia, he decided he couldn’t land….so he’d crash (and hope) ?
But he didn’t do that either.
All very odd.
Hi Q, yes & so there should be a change .
The very fact that no one has published who the shippers & recipients were should have been questioned & answers found by now.
They have admitted carrying Lithium batteries, but even that sounds odd when there are millions made in China !
It’s not only the direct culprits & the airline, there must be staff who have the answers, why haven’t their palms been greased by some newspaper?
Maybe staff are too afraid to speak up because of the consequences…………….which only adds to the feeling this cargo was highly controversial…………. Unless, the plane had been PREloaded elsewhere ?
So what could it be, nuclear, arms, toxic chemicals,illegal drugs ?
Which of those would you plump for ?
Hi James.
Is cargo stringently checked on so called honest airlines , could a couple of loaders be corrupted easily, are they ever checked,who does check the crates,palettes,packages or do airlines just check the paperwork & take the shippers word for it ? Presumably they have to be routinely scanned for terrorist materials ? But again, whoever watches that screen could have been paid to turn a blind eye.
I can understand corruption between KL & Beijing,but would a Western company ship via that route knowing they could get something into Beijing which they couldn’t legally from the UK or Europe.
@Katie: “So what could it be, nuclear, arms, toxic chemicals, illegal drugs? Which of those would you plump for?”
So many choices, but it must be seriously bad, which is why we haven’t heard anything further. Its final intended destination is unknown. Is this why the international aviation officials are not commenting? How many countries had the mystery cargo passed through before it got to Malaysia and was labelled “fresh mangosteen”?
My latest internet searches involved the radioactive waste from the Australian mining company Lynas, which refines rare earth minerals in Malaysia. Malaysians don’t want it, and Australia won’t accept it. So where does it end up? No one knows.
But surely the entire world would not keep quiet if this cargo involved only two or three nations that could be the scapegoats.
@Katie
It “should” be all checked/scanned.
But then again, there are lots of things that should happen….but don’t.
And sometimes the “staff” are “well in” on what they shouldn’t be doing.
But would that cause a cover up from above ?
Only if the “above” were in on it…and benefiting from it in some way.
There just isn’t one scenario that makes any sense.
And the Malaysian authorities “attitude” doesn’t make sense either.
Maybe when the snow melts on the mountain tops of Kazakhstan, things will become clearer !!!!
To name but a few on the drugs smuggling side of things.
2010… Heathrow
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1340158/Air-hostess-jailed-years-taking-advantage-lax-security-Heathrow-smuggle-250k-cocaine-Britain.html
2012… Puerto Rico to the US
http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/dea-american-airlines-workers-smuggled-cocaine-miami-york/story?id=16509719
…even fake nuns ! (a trivia one for Q that)
http://www.capitalbay.com/headline/339815-fake-nuns-arrested-for-trying-to-smuggle-cocaine-through-airport-dressed-in-religious-disguise.html
The only thing I can think of is, if MAS370 was carrying those batteries…and they combusted, then airlines would be banned from carrying them in the future.
I guess that would make things harder for “computer” makers.
As well as cutting off a revenue stream for the airlines.
…and what about taking your laptop onboard ? That may also be banned.
Such a “money spinner” may mean that “fresh fruit” became “batteries”.
Fruit does ignite now does it !
There is a question about “some kind if interference with the In Flight Entertainment System”.
Was this done to “confuse” the pax ?
Was this system used as a “hack” ?
How is this “interference” known (stated on “Four Corners”, Australia).