I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
Katy, all. Thanks for that perceptive story no one seems to be reading, just like no one is responding to Obama’s statement today. 275 Troops being sent to Iraq. There goes the ‘no boots on the ground’ paywall.
I just can’t feature how it’s possible the Media get pushed and pulled as though they were metal chips following any magnet passing by. I truly think we’re reached peak dumb when a home in the Hamptons, hob-nobbing with the latest human hard-on celebrity, is their definition of success.
Glad to see y’all haven’t given it up. It’s this kind of persistent awareness that notices what seems to most an inconsequential fact, but tied to other widgets starts to paint a picture to those who don’t have to play catch-up. I guess what I’m saying is I believe facts relating to the vast holes in the Big Picture will emerge. No evidence for that; just intuition.
Q.
I’d go for a ‘radioactive’ sort of substance myself, it has to be the most controversial…therefore a greater need to cover up, add that to James reminding us of ‘interference’ & it makes sense.
The battery story doesn’t gel at all, I’m sure the Malaysians ship them but FROM China,the makers, not too !
Why would China be importing competitors batteries ?
However….China does import huge amounts of e-waste which has untold dangerous & toxic substances, so there’s a possibility of all kinds being included, known or unknown in that junk. doesn’t this explain why other countries have stayed schtum ?
You don’t have to read it all, but there’s some interesting snippets in this article;
‘ Transboundary shipments
Apart from the domestic generation of e-waste, a remarkable amount of e-waste is imported into China to meet the demand for second-hand equipment and for secondary resources.
China now appears to be the largest e-waste dumping site in the world, receiving shipments from the US, Europe and neigh- bouring Asian countries, including South Korea and Japan [6, 15-17]. Despite the fact that the Chinese government banned the import of e-waste (for both domestic re-use and recycling) in 2000, large volumes of imported e-waste and second-hand EEE still flow into the country [7, 18].’
http://gigaom.com/2014/02/27/the-sheer-size-of-teslas-massive-battery-factory-could-be-a-game-changer-in-many-ways/
Hi Ben,
Only yesterday I asked [on someone else’s blog] what has happened to that massive ‘Embassy’ complex the Americans planted in Iraq………..this morning I read the answer.
Another broken promise by O.
INMARSAT update…
Along with all the other “bundling” that has gone on prior to MH370 even powering up it’s engines on the runway….we have a further “WHAT THE ****” moment.
It turns out that the area INMARSAT concluded to be the “most likely” spot MH370 came down, has yet to be searched.
As Ocean Shield headed to this “most likely” area….the ship detected those “pings”. And so that is where they started their search.
The rest is history.
So there we go. If INMARSAT are correct (re the SATCOM “handshakes”)…
And if their Doppler Shift calculations are correct leading to the Southern Arc..
Then 100 plus days on….. nothing has been done !
James,
I’ve no doubt whatsoever that a number of countries are ‘covering ‘up.
There can be no other explanation.
Not one country has shown anger & positive determination to take the Malaysians to task.
Not one national newspaper has sniffed out a story.
Yes the Chinese have on behalf of their citizens but this event affects every country which flies planes of any description… again I can only conclude the truth is known & being withheld, which explains the non urgent relaxed manner this disappearance is being treated.
The Americans are the most suspect ‘because’ of their location at DG but mainly their gobsmacking silence & lack of search support right from the start……even though it was an American built plane carrying 20 American citizens.
@Katie
It sure is a bizarre situation.
One thing of note. Malaysia are indeed involved in a “cover up”.
They are covering up their complete lack of ability.
1. Their airport security.
2. Their ATC (how they handled the initial situation is unbelievable).
3. Their S&R alerting procedures by the ATC (that was a joke).
4. Their Primary (Mil) Radar (alerted by Civil radar).
5. Their air force and interceptors.
And that just covers the bit from “lost contact” to “departing Malay airspace”.
The way they handled handled things after that is “unbelievable”.
Just “one” point on that.
In one Press Conference the “acting minister of chaos” denied they had received information relating to a “extended” flight of MH370…..when they had been already been contacted by the UK AAIB/INMARSAT.
At a later Press Conference (2 days later) he said that he had received this information and MH370 had continued to fly.
I mean… what is this guy on ???
He denies his denials. Even when they are recorded at Press Conferences !
There is no way that anyone can deal with such an idiot.
James, I think all that rubbish stems from him & the other ‘elite’ [ ho ho ] being used to kidding the uneducated who vote for them. He is not normally questioned & usually believed in all he says.
They are not used to those of us outside the country who ‘can’ put two & two together & see the misleading, mistakes,lies,obfuscating taking place.
What has he actually told them in their own language ?
@Katie…
They are really bad. If it wasn’t so serious, it would be laughable.
I guess they never thought they would end up on the World Stage.
Like when they “saw” on Primary radar the unidentified aircraft and didn’t send up fighter planes to intercept it. “What was I to do, shoot it down” !!!!
Er….No. Go up and see what it is !
The Royal Malaysian Air Force are a laughing stock.
STATEMENT FROM AN INDEPENDENT MH370 INVESTIGATION TEAM
http://www.duncansteel.com/archives/date/2014/06/17
Well I did watch the ‘investigative’ TV prog last night on this mystery .
The only new thing to come to light was [ and you had to watch carefully to spot it] the guy from Immarsat’s attitude to the Malaysian governments response.
He clearly was being very British in his understatement about how spying capabilities in that region were confidential. There had obviously been ‘words’ between the two factions.
Frankly when so many lives are at stake I feel there should be legal enforcement to comply with an investigation of this kind. There’s no need to make it all public but investigators should be able to access all relevant information.
So my thoughts after watching ……..unchanged…the Malaysians failed to scramble military planes so they are at fault & they also know what the cargo was.
Yes we saw the manifest stating mangosteens & Lithium batteries, what we were not told is whether those batteries were old or new.
I personally think they were old shipped as e waste. I cannot think of any other reason to ship Lithium batteries to China.
Do I think they played a part in the disappearance ?
Possibly if they interfered with the radar,electrics & navigational equipment. But what do I know about such things………….nothing.
Katie….
My view. The cover up is “how bad the Malaysians are” !
What caused the crash ?
Probably fuel starvation.
How did it get to where it is suspected it got to ?
They’ll need to recover the hull of the aircraft to find that out.
I doubt the bodies (if a number are still in the aircraft hull) will be too decomposed to do any sort of autopsy.
If the hull shows substantial fire damage, especially in the cargo bay(s) then that would be a start…. however I still can not see how a fire could cause so much damage and the aircraft still remain airborne for such a length of time.
Then there is the issue of alterations in course, (speed ?), and altitude (?).
…and if the data recorders were still working at the end !
@Katie: Take a look at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_disposal_of_radioactive_waste
Makes you wonder about the Somalia situation, and if “pirates” are blamed for things when the ships in the area were actually getting rid of things? Makes a person think back to the early days of this thread, when those two security personnel, former U.S. Navy Seals, were found dead. They had had worked on a famous ship that had its story turned into a famous movie about Somalian pirates.
Could dumping of radioactive waste at sea be accomplished by commercial airliner, with an insurance claim by way of “hijackers”, instead of the familiar “pirates”?
Maybe it’s too Hollywood.
@Pink: It’s interesting that the Duncan Steel group puts the flight path directly over the Cocos Islands. I posted several links in the past about the role of Australia there, and the strategic importance of that location. More here:
http://www.futuredirections.org.au/media-and-events/in-the-news/33-fdi-in-the-news-australia/353-history-repeating-australian-military-power-in-the-cocos-islands.html
Those Orions and the Cocos are mentioned here:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-News-Wires/2014/0316/Missing-Malaysian-flight-Air-traffic-control-heard-from-pilot-after-systems-shut-down
It will be interesting if Duncan Steel’s group is ignored like GeoResonance. Surely the international team cannot afford to ignore someone with the credentials of Mr. Steel.
@Katie: What if MH370 was carrying decaying lithium ion batteries heading to China for e-waste disposal, “and something”. We know the flight did not contain “fresh mangosteen”, because that is impossible. What could the “and something” be? How about this:
http://www.epa.gov/radiation/tenorm/rareearths.html
TENORM waste? What would happen to a shipment of aging lithium ion batteries (leaky?) heading to a disposal site, and “non-dangerous goods”, which do not require inspection because they are labelled “(impossible) fresh mangosteen”? Remember that there is a lot of rare earth mineral processing waste that is being disposed of somewhere, but not Australia or Malaysia.
In case anyone had forgotten:
http://e360.yale.edu/feature/boom_in_mining_rare_earths_poses_mounting_toxic_risks/2614/
I was looking at the fracking again with relation to the other thread will drop a couple of links over there for you to look at ,I do wonder if energy/waste might be a subject that might connect the people over there it seems to crop up a lot.
Katie….
Been think about what you keeps saying.
Why export batteries TO China ?
Here’s a way out there thought (and I know nada about batteries.
What if the batteries were as you put forward “old”.
What if they did leak
What if the “not so fresh” mango stuff was indeed frozen…. or thawing.
Water….and lithium ? That’s not a good mix.
No idea “how” they would mix or what containers they were transported in.
No idea how the whole thing would play out….
But Lithium and water produce Hydrogen gas and Lithium Hydroxide.
OR…What if the lithium batteries weren’t batteries yet ! Just lithium.
Just some random thoughts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vxqe_ZOwsHs
Fun with lithium batteries and water !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7abq34mckg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqznerCfzWM
Q.
That is a fascinating article. It’s the first I’ve seen linked to Malaysia, I think there is something here.
I don’t believe China is buying up e-waste purely for the useful recycling we think of, more for the extraction of ‘stuff’.
When it comes to dumping at sea what better place than the open ocean where the search was first headed ?
Was there something leaky or radioactive causing a problem in the cabin, fumes ?
Is that why the plane turned & flew in that direction knowing what pollution they could cause with their cargo, were the pilots in fact heroes in doing that ?
James.
On another tack.
Lithium…….yes of course China buys it from around the world.
” “China is buying lithium by the tanker load,” says Mitchell Lavery, director of Canada Lithium. “The two largest mines in the world—both in Australia—ship exclusively to China. Two years ago the Chinese were reported to be making 20 million electric scooters a year.”
http://www.bus-ex.com/article/canada-lithium
China relies on net imports for approximately 70% of its lithium consumption it has to buy it to go into their batteries.
A fascinating article here, but it’s a PDF …….. you will find it in the first link of this Google page ;
vhttps://www.google.fr/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=how+is+lithium+imported+into+china&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&gfe_rd=cr&ei=yuSiU6GhCuySigbu_4GgBQ
Well there you have it James, lithium or leaky old batteries coming into contact with fluids of some sort, condensation ?
Forget that previous Google link it does not work; try this or follow up on Google.
Definitely worth a look.
Investment and expansion along the lithium supply chain in …
http://www.roskill.com/news/download…lithium…in-china/…/attachment1
@Pink: By some strange coincidence, when I was looking up the information on radioactive waste from rare earth mineral mining and processing, I came up with links to sites about waste from wind energy, like this one:
http://www.rightsidenews.com/2013102333380/life-and-science/energy-and-environment/big-winds-dirty-little-secret-toxic-lakes-and-radioactive-waste.html
“Manufacturing wind turbines is a resource-intensive process. A typical wind turbine contains more than 8,000 different components, many of which are made from steel, cast iron, and concrete. One such component are magnets made from neodymium and dysprosium, rare earth minerals mined almost exclusively in China, which controls 95 percent of the world’s supply of rare earth minerals.
Simon Parry from the Daily Mail traveled to Baotou, China, to see the mines, factories, and dumping grounds associated with China’s rare-earths industry. What he found was truly haunting:
As more factories sprang up, the banks grew higher, the lake grew larger and the stench and fumes grew more overwhelming.
‘It turned into a mountain that towered over us,’ says Mr Su. ‘Anything we planted just withered, then our animals started to sicken and die.’
People too began to suffer. Dalahai villagers say their teeth began to fall out, their hair turned white at unusually young ages, and they suffered from severe skin and respiratory diseases. Children were born with soft bones and cancer rates rocketed.
Official studies carried out five years ago in Dalahai village confirmed there were unusually high rates of cancer along with high rates of osteoporosis and skin and respiratory diseases. The lake’s radiation levels are ten times higher than in the surrounding countryside, the studies found.
As the wind industry grows, these horrors will likely only get worse. Growth in the wind industry could raise demand for neodymium by as much as 700 percent over the next 25 years, while demand for dysprosium could increase by 2,600 percent, according to a recent MIT study. The more wind turbines pop up in America, the more people in China are likely to suffer due to China’s policies. Or as the Daily Mail put it, every turbine we erect contributes to “a vast man-made lake of poison in northern China.””
@James: You may have noted some time back that I wanted to be clear whether the mangosteen was fresh, frozen or juice. That was my point.
Q
Ahhh ! You were ahead of me. It was when Katie said about the “old batteries” that I recalled being at KUL.
Parked there waiting at the ramp… and looking out of the window. There was another bloke loading. It was amazingly hot and sticky. I was struck by how small the people were….and that the Red Caps had all the stuff out (that struck me as there was a “flash” storm heading in).
I was thinking how a battery would ignite. Maybe the heat. But I just can’t see that happening. The hold on an aircraft are pretty damn chilly.
Then I thought “not so frozen fruit” !
I’m not so “up” on hauling cargo, but I think they generally wrapped and then covered with a “thermal” blanket type affair. Then crated up to go into the belly of the aircraft.
I don’t know how batteries are packed either. I guess pretty damn well.
So I don’t know if water from thawing fruit could get onto batteries. But if it could, then there would be a big problem. Maybe not a full on “thermal run away”, but certainly gases.
It’s total speculation, but I can’t think of anything else (other than someone actually taking the aircraft controls and steering it off course…with intent).
A fire….would mean the a/c would crash pretty fast and not fly on for several hours.
The “coincidence” is that it happened at the FIR handover. He said “Goodnight Vienna” ….and didn’t call in to Vietnam. On the scale of “really bad things to do” that is pretty high. Maybe an emergency did happen at that time. Maybe it blew the CB’s and they turned for home…. but then. Maybe they thought they couldn’t do anything else….but fly North West…then after sometime later, turn Due South on Heading Select.
It’s a lot of “maybe’s”.
Rotting mangosteens next to leaking lithium batteries melted together, producing electromagnetic waves that turned the transponder off and sent the a/c to the south pole.
This is beyond farcical. You guys are better than the Monty Python!!
electromagnetic waves ? And who mentioned that.
What we are speculating is what adults call a chemical reaction which produce a toxic gas…..
….whereas what you are talking about is…. bollocks !
But thanks for your input anyway “Grain O’ Salt”.
I am really happy the wardens allow you some time to use the internet.
thank you, James.
BTW, I saw today that an airplane in another country was diverted for a breach of airport security four hours into its flight. It took a strange path after being ordered back. The flight path was show on TV news.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/06/19/toronto-plane-to-brazil-called-back-mid-flight-after-passenger-boarded-without-security-screening/
MH370 may have taken the path it took on orders from some authority.
BTW2, remember the story about the (Boeing?) fire suppression unit found on a beach in the Maldives?
James.
The hold of a plane gets very cold yes, sometimes my luggage after a long haul flight has even felt damp.
So, imagine the heat you mention in KUL & the Lithium was not packed in the correct thermal packaging, then it’s inevitable that temperature changes would take place.
Or even if the Lithium was left on the tarmac too long & hot when loaded & just didn’t cool down .
>>>>>>We also come back to the question who were the shippers & who were the importers & why the secrecy of both, who is being protected ? <<<<<<
If it were all 'kosher' answers to those questions would have been given.
AGrainofSalt.
Did you know Twitter came about after ‘brain storming’ ?
The rest , as they say, is history !
Twitter usage
255 million monthly active users
500 million Tweets are sent per day
78% of Twitter active users are on mobile
77% of accounts are outside the U.S.
Twitter supports 35+ languages
Vine: More than 40 million users
Company facts
3,000 employees in offices around the world
50% of employees are engineers
Incorporated April 19, 2007
At Twitter HQ we consume 1,440 hard boiled eggs weekly.
We also drink 585 gallons of coffee per week.
Is this why certain countries don’t want to rock the boat with Malaysia over the MH370 coverup?
http://business.financialpost.com/2014/06/19/petronas-seeking-as-much-as-us15b-for-lng-project-in-canadas-biggest-ever-debt-financing-deal-sources/?__lsa=f00d-916b
Q Interesting article about the Canadian pax that didn’t clear security.
With regards MH370 we have been “given” the cargo manifest of what is believed to be onboard. There then is the issue of what may have been loaded “unknowingly”. And of course what may have been “knowingly unknown” cargo.
A side note. I am currently in an argument with a major airline based in Belgium with regard to an unauthorised loading issue. This issue has been “elevated” to the Belgium CAA (DGTA) and the Belgium Airport Police. Both of these “authorities” appear to be “being lax” in their investigations thus far….!
This means I will have to report both of these “authorities” to the E.U. Commission. Should they fail to investigate the actions of the CAA and police, I have to report the E.U. Commission to the E.U. Ombudsman.
You can see how so called “professional bodies” are designed to “defend” (by failing to investigate) airlines over lax security issues….and how time consuming the whole process is.
I don’t believe airlines (some) are operate as safely as they claim to be.