I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
Ok, James it is
A story in the Times today that there was a consignment of lithium batteries in the hold implying a fire took hold. No link. Paywall.
Sorry Bluebird. I see that you already said that. Thread getting too long like the al Hilli thread.
Donald
So “that” looks like the “turn back”.
http://skyvector.com/
http://inquiringminds.cc/questions-the-media-havent-been-asking-about-flight-mh370
“More than seven years ago, in 2006, a publication by the name of Homeland Security News Wire, whose editor in chief studied at Tel Aviv University, ran a brief story about Boeing’s Uninterruptible Auto Pilot System. In the wake of the still missing Boeing 777 aircraft, another publication ran a story, which stated in part:
Perhaps the most unsettling information in regards to the missing Boeing 777 comes from retired 35 year Delta pilot, Field McConnell, who states that since 1995, Boeing Uninterruptible Auto Pilots have been equipped in Boeing planes. This information was apparently not released until March of 2007, following a subsequent lawsuit by McConnell. The modification was reported to the FAA, NTSB and ALPA (airline pilots association). According to McConnell’s documents, Boeing is said to have stated that by end of 2009 all Boeing planes would be fitted with the BUAP – making them impossible to manually hijack within the plane but susceptible to remote control by the military, according the flight veteran.
At least one organization, Voice of Russia, bothered to interview the retired pilot, mentioned above, on this particular topic, but it is obviously not deemed to be sufficiently relevant for general public consumption, as though it were yet another taboo subject, just too “hot” to address.”
http://skyvector.com/?ll=-14.491417065702736,68.35546875339219&chart=304&zoom=13&plan=A.WM.WMKK:F.WS.IGARI:V.WM.VPG:F.WM.VAMPI:F.WM.NILAM:F.VO.NOPEK:F.VO.MEMAK:F.VC.TOPIN:F.VC.NISOK:F.VC.SELSU:F.VC.KETIV:G.-39.08231939716339,91.86328125372236
In 7 hours 30 minutes at 490 Kts. Is that “approx” the search area ?
Sorry
Kenneth Sorensen
20 Mar, 2014 – 4:30 pm. That twenty year anniversary relates to the secret Norwegian talks that lead to the much derided peace deal signed on the White House Lawn in 1993 on the 5th SEPTEMBER.
“It called for a five-year transitional period in which Israeli forces would withdraw from occupied territories and a Palestinian Authority would be set up, leading to a permanent settlement. It was signed on the White House lawn in September 1993 in the presence of Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin and PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat. ”
So to be more precise 5th September was a fortieth and nineteenth anniversary of what to many Israelis were days of calumny and treason, the former resulting in the state assassination labelled “Operation WRATH of God” with documented killings for at least the next twenty years; and the second resulted in Rabin being the only prime minister to be assassinated in 1995.
I do not think it is rational to believe these things are irrational or co-incidental.
I didn’t mention the fate of Arafat that is now surely known by everyone.
Whilst on the subject of pilots, they have proved to be a confounded nuisance to those in high places in the American Administration. “Pilots for Truth” have produced much incontrovertible evidence flatly contradicting the official 9/11 story as everyone here probably knows.
The latest appears to be new footage of just a few significant frames showing what is likely to be a cruise hitting the Pentagon and certainly not a 757 at least. Also detailed analysis of Shanksville that rules out a plane there too. (Sorry to Ben earlier I think regarding my short-hand in relation to the amended fighter engagement protocol. You are of course right to be more accurate)
So on pilots it is not at all clear what happened to the ones flying the 9/11 planes that flew off, but did not end up where they were said to, or indeed the passengers. This is where modus is established for disappearing aircraft by the Americans. It is very suggestive in relation to MH370. Then add in BB (or was it NR’s) (sorry) reminder of the Egypian plane’s interception over the Mediterranean, plus the means to take over a 777’s controls, plus the seventh fleet with aircraft carrier and fighters in the vicinity (probably) and island bases in flying distance and no announcement for more than 5 hrs potentially allowing it to land/refuel/be out of there? and you start to have a fairly credible scenario I would say.
The American assets, and probably only theirs, would be able to block normal communications (all the local phones went down it is reported) and a fighter on your wing is an offer a pilot has difficulty to refuse. Radar places another plane on its tail off Vietnam before both just disappear off screen!
As always we are dependent on these sources being reliable.
Two further little indicators pointing to Washington I would say: the State Department spokesman promoting “probably at the bottom of the ocean by now” opinion. Its such a throw away line. No aeronautics/diplomat would suggest such without reason – no least because “callous” doesn’t play well PR wise – but also you don’t pre-judge disasters until you have firm evidence. It, you will notice, and I apologise for repeating myself, replicates Eric Maillaud’s fatalistic approach at the beginning of Chevaline that the crime would never be solved.
The second little indication of spookery was that reference to the mainstream discussion on “black holes”. Americans are highly superstitious and suggestible. A majority believe in the supernatural. There is value in introducing an element of the mysterious and occult to the mix. It confuses the the very practical issues, it deflects and distorts, and can even tar those who raise the sensible, level-headed objections. I can almost hear the Spokesman retorting “Oh I suppose your one of those nut cases who believe it went down a black hole”.
Sorry I have digressed from the pilots. Only a couple of days ago another fell from a 12th floor 4ft balcony whilst on a Florida holiday after a 35 year career with American Airlines. Inexplicable but definitely not foul play of course.
From the Al Hilli thread:
Personally speaking, I haven’t given up on Chevaline either, though in the absence of any new developments or revelations, there is not much to say. We are clearly “second-tier” investigators. Were we able to take the role of journalists (of the old school) or even police detectives things might be different. Unfortunately as we have noted many times, the former largely act as as channels for whatever is put out by official sources (did you notice the repetition of that term “credible evidence” that kept cropping up re. MH370 possible debris that I believe results from orchestration) and the latter is firmly under political/security services control.
Rank and secrecy are such fundamental characteristics of British policing, and so much depending on them in pay and pension, that “toeing the line” is integral to quasi-military set up. From Constable to Chief Constable and if he or she know what’s good for them, through Special Branch and MI5 in the Home Office.
There is still the big question hanging? What has that huge British investigation discovered and when will it be revealed? Only Parliament has the necessary tools to enquire if our “free press” is unable or unwilling so to do. Isn’t it time questions were asked of the Home Secretary in the House? Perhaps it is time a public petition was organised?
“In my book”, the only rational explanation for the total silence from the British side (apart from seeded disinformation) can be matters of national security. However to admit such would obviously beg the question and prove collusion and cover up at least on the French side, and by implication the British side also.
So we have this state of scarcely believable theatre and we know all theatre is merely illusion to portray or protect greater truths. It certainly seems we have repeat performance in MH370, a plan perhaps frustrated only by a little oversight on the part of the planners – a “bleeping” transmitter in the “bleeping” tail, which the “bleeping” British chose not to keep “beeping” quiet about!
So in this regard I thought an event from the past illustrates some of the issues we have seen here. The way the British Government works at least. How Parliamentary procedures are by passed when it comes to matters of state security. How figures in the opposition are made to toe the line so that they don’t. How Special Branch is employed to enforce. How the BBC is coerced.
These events link Chevaline, “Zircon” spy satellites, and secret accounting 25 or more years ago. It is old hat when it was still possible to walk up Downing Street without a semi-automatic or gate in sight, so it would naive to things were now much different or better. It is what makes that “Panorama investigation” so significant as a window into British Government thinking and strategy.
If you don’t have time to look at all these references, just look at the last which in some ways brings it altogether.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zircon_affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zircon_(satellite)
http://www.duncancampbell.org/PDF/Zircon.pdf
https://www.fas.org/irp/eprint/alpha/zircon.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2519703/Top-secret-government-spy-satellite-launched-space-sinister-cartoon-octopus-logo-boast-Nothing-Is-Beyond-Our-Reach.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1402465/Britains-first-spy-satellite-is-cheap-option.html
http://fantasyfleet.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/united-kingdom-spy-satellite-topsat.html
“TOPSAT
TopSat (Tactical Operational Satellite) is an Earth observation satellite that was launched on October 27, 2005 alongside the Beijing-1 Disaster Monitoring Constellation satellite by a Cosmos rocket from Plesetsk Cosmodrome in Russia. TopSat carries out imaging with a ground resolution of 2.5m. Much smaller and cheaper than other imaging satellites of similar high resolution, TopSat has been used to demonstrate the feasibility of providing images on demand to portable groundstations, such as might be deployed by the military or by disaster relief organisations.
AND DRAWING IT ALTOGETHER….
http://fantasyfleet.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/united-kingdom-spy-satellite-topsat.html
TopSat was built in the United Kingdom by Surrey Satellite Technology Ltd, QinetiQ and The Rutherford Appleton Laboratory under the British National Space Centre Mosaic programme. The MOD was the largest single contibutor to the program.
The TopSat program was highly successful technology demonstrator able to return decent imagery for a knock down price of just £15 million. It was hoped that the UK would be able to build a constellation of these satellites however with present budget cuts the appetite for this seems to have diminished.”
“From the Al Hilli thread”
Rolls eyes and wonders why the hell he is posting his bizarre rant here !
Worth to consider a similar event with malaysia airlines boeing 777-200, approx 9 years ago ….
http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2005/aair/aair200503722.aspx
2005 In-flight upset; Boeing 777-200, Malaysian Airlines 9M-MRG,
240 km NW Perth, WA
The PFD airspeed display then indicated that the aircraft was approaching the overspeed limit and the stall speed limit simultaneously.
The aircraft pitched up and climbed to approximately FL410 and the indicated airspeed decreased from 270 kts to 158 kts.
The stall warning and stick shaker devices also activated. The aircraft returned to Perth where an uneventful landing was completed.
It looks as if the computers were taken over and therefore received wrong data for a short period of time that caused the plane to pitch up to FL440.
A similar event (dangerous pitch up) took place in 2005 with Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777-200 on a flight from perth to kuala lumpur when the computer received wrong data.I don’t know whether or not this was the same airplane or just a “sisterplane”.
The 9M-MRG Boeing 777-200 event flight data (the missing plane is 9M-MRO)
Tech report is probably interesting for james.
Graphic animation included.
http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/24550/aair200503722_001.pdf
This was very interesting, and careful researched stuff, Tim – in the spirit of Christopher Bollyn. Thanks for that.
I particularly found your info about Boeing’s Uninterruptible Auto Pilot System. (BUAP) VERY interesting:
So that explains the crash south of Australia, then It was on auto-pilot, and nobody could manually control it and it ran out of fuel. Is that the lesson you draw from this, too?
I will definitely be on the look out for news from “Pilots for Truth”, because they are – as you said — generally a very sturdy and reliable bunch. I remember the morning of 9/11, a [Swedish] pilot brought into the studio on Swedish Television, saying that the very elaborate “Swing” which the second plane made prior to crashing in, clearly was the work of a professional pilot.
I saw Bollyn talking about that both planes that hit WTC entered “computer-rooms”, one of them belonging to the insurance company AIG (The one that was bailed out by the government in the wake of the financial crisis) which “had been locked off for months” and witnesses have seen heavy “batteries” been brought in, literally filling up the whole floor space. So presumably whatever those “batteries” consisted of, they were meant to enhance the effect of the exploding aircraft. But do we know how the aircraft were avle to enter these specific rooms? Which signalling system in the rooms where communicating with the aircraft so that they could enter precisely there. Was it laser-based, or what do you think?
No on second thought, it was probably radio-based so nothing could be seen.
In connection with the “batteries” that was brought in to the rooms, where the planes crashed in, they could in reality just consist of ….lead. Now we’re back with what I’ve always thought about the collapse of the Towers. I’ve always thought that the aircraft scraped of the fire-insulating from the steel-beams (but of couse there is a problem: Could they just scrape of all the protection) and the fire from the explodong jet-fuel weakened the iron, and the weight of the floors above made the steel cave in, and the weight just increased with each collapsing floor all the way to the bottom. But of course: If you prior to the event deliberately have brought additional weight into the building – perhaps as much as to almost hazard the structure of the floor, this would certainly ensure that the towers easier collapsed, and that they went down symmetrically, straight to the bottom.
This — relatively — simple explanation will also jettison out the “thermite” from the equation,- something I’ve never comed round to believe in. Whyh: Because its reasonably far-fetched in an already complex operation. Why not keep it simple; if additional weight brought in over (How about that!) the rooms where the planes crashed in, this would result in a speedier collapse.
Blue
Interesting report.
That’s called “a bad day at the office”.
And they had a windshear alert on their approach into Perth !
@Kenneth Sorensen 23 Mar, 2014 – 4:42 am
“No on second thought, it was probably radio-based so nothing could be seen.”
Remember the guided bomb that found the map room of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. However that was done, nobody believed the lame story of US/NATO mistakenly using old maps. One theory is it was a special GPS guided bomb flown on a non-stop plane from the US. Some say Clinton ordered the strike, while others say it was done independently by the military who discovered the Chinese spying on their stealth aircraft.
“While America Slept — How the United States botched China’s rise. FEBRUARY 27, 2013: In May 1999, during the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia, a U.S. plane bombed the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade. America apologized, but no Chinese leader believed it was a mistake.”
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2013/02/27/the_calm_before_the_storm_china_rise
It isn’t that much removed from GPS guided bombs and missiles to using an airliner.
Interesting, NR, and I will certainly be reading that Foreign Policy. But to hit a specific floor using GPS? This is in my opinion not reliable. Good all fashioned radiobeems broadcast out from the room, and the plane honing in on it, is fool-proof. And remember they really, really wanted the planes to hit just these rooms.
Blue
What “concerns” me is the fact this aircraft “appears” to have been “flown”.
A lot of pilots are saying “don’t crucify the crew” until the facts are known.
And they are right. However….
POINT ONE
There “appears” to be a turn West executed.
It was executed at an FIR handover (the point of most confusion).
Transponders, ACARS and Radio Comms ceased at that point.
POINT TWO
The only tracking available is by Primary Radar.
Further limited tracking was via the SATCOM equipment (ON/RUN not ON/OFF).
POINT THREE
The a/c appears to have flown “around” Northern Indonesia.
The a/c appears to have flown a heading of 182 degrees.
The a/c appears to have ceased fly between 07.11 and 08.11
POINT FOUR
The a/c appears to have crashed (due to fuel starvation) in the most remotest and deepest parts of the ocean and is “potentially unrecoverable”.
CONCLUSIONS
HYPOXIA.
The a/c appears to be “under control” after it ceased to communicate for approx 756NM (1hr 30mins)MIN to 1105NM (2hrs 15mins) MAX.
That is “way (WAY) outside” any known time limits at that altitude.
PILOT SUICIDE/MASS MURDER.
At the FIR (and takeover) the pilot must be in a position to subdue the other pilot and take control “at the precise moment”.
Once in control he did not crash the a/c immediately but waited between the times indicated above…or considerably longer to execute his deed.
His attitude would need to be…
1) See how clever I am.
2) You’ll never find this aircraft.
That attitude would have “likely” have been foreseen previously.
Then you have THEFT/RANSOM. And ASSASSINATION. Also TERRORISM.
A note on Primary Radar.
There’s little point in having it, unless you can “do something” with it.
So an Air Defence capability or Interceptor Squadron.
Not “up on” modern fighters, but I assume that with external tanks the range of an interceptor (F16) is about 1,500NM. Enough to “prowl”. And that’s it.
But that’s all that would be needed.
Soon enough, DH307 (untagged) is on it’s merry way South.
I would like to know the “Jump Seat” policy at MAS. Some companies (and countries) are very “lax” about these things. Not only taking “company” deadheaders, but sometimes “anyone”.
But “that” scenario puts us back with “Pilot (if it was a pilot) Suicide”.
And at the moment, I struggle to buy into that.
Flight Plan at SkyVector.com
@Bluebird
Pearl Harbor was planned for a Sunday morning and the 1973 Arab–Israeli War started on Yom Kippur.
If diversion of MH370 was an intentional act did the perpetrators use late Saturday night and early Sunday morning to gain an advantage in evading ATC and military radar in some country along the escape route?
What countries in the area have their weekends — day or days off — on Sat/Sun or Sun/Mon. For example, in the West where Saturday is partyday and Sunday is a day of rest/recovery staffing is minimal and officers hard to locate.
The Philippines is obvious. Any others? World calendar lists only “Baron Bliss Day — Belize” for 9 Mar. Not enough fuel to reach there. 🙂
Field McConnell !
He’s the bloke that writes to Putin and starts.
“Dear Brother in Christ Vladimir Putin…..”
Ending
“I further offer to work with Sukhoi and Russiato expose the technologies that enabled the destruction of the Sukhoi Superjet”.
A real “fruit” that one. “Nurse…. get the restraints”
Forgot the link. Well worth a laugh.
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2013/09/letter-from-field-mcconnell-to-vladimir-putin-2764802.html
Malaysia reveals that the pilot received a phone call a few hours before departure from a fake number. The mobile phone SIM card of the caller had been purchased by using a stolen passport of a woman.
Another stolen passport ……
Read that and you’ll notice that it is strictly impossible that the 777 could pass that area unnoticed and without immediate reply by indian airforces. IMPOSSIBLE!
They are liars!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andaman_and_Nicobar_Command
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/andaman-and-nicobar-islands-a-security-challenge-for-india/
The placid waters of the Andaman Sea belie the 24×7 threat perception that churns these waters literally on a daily basis. A war in the conventional sense might be a remote possibility, but that does not mean that the Indian Armed Forces do not prepare for any eventuality. Threat perceptions take into account a battle for the control of these waters.
Dejavu Chevaline. Lies by A, refuted by B, other lies by B, refuted by A, truth by B, refuted by A, truth by A, refuted by B, lies by A, refuted by B, …… keep on turning the wheel …..
http://news.asiaone.com/news/malaysia/missing-mh370-police-refute-capt-zaharies-mystery-call-report-british-tabloid
KUALA LUMPUR – Police have refuted claims by a foreign tabloid that Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah received a call from a phone number registered with a dubious identity just before he flew Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 on March 8.
Claim and counter claim !
Going back to the “India question”.
When the search of the Southern Indian Ocean began, China requested that it sends two (or maybe three) navy ships to the Andaman Island area….
….India politely refused !
No idea what to make of that. China wanting a “poke around” ?
Oh, here comes the justification for NSA/GCHQ snooping ..
“02.50 The Sunday Times (££) has an interesting line, saying police have seized the bank statements, credit card bills, mortgage documents and other personal financial records of all 12 crew members of flight MH370.
Sources in Kuala Lumpur, the Malaysian capital, said the criminal investigation into the disappearance of the plane is focusing on talk of domestic troubles for the captain, Zaharie Ahmad Shah, 53, and high spending by Fariq Hamid, 27, the first officer.
The investigators have also obtained all the mobile and home phone records of the crew as well as details of their computer use and internet habits, according to police sources and people close to the families of the crew members.
Working with foreign intelligence agencies, they are searching for evidence that any of the crew could have been subject to psychological or financial pressure.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/malaysia/10717049/Malaysia-Airlines-MH370-live.html