I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
Katie…
The “goods sitting on the tarmac” theory is viable.
I have no idea how “heated batteries” react.
Two points.
1. These batteries are designed to be “heated”.
But when internally placed in a device and by an electric current.
2. It was midnight.
I have no idea when these batteries arrived at KUL or where they were stored.
Also the “fresh fruit”.
When did this cargo arrive.
Where was it stored.
How was it packed.
I think it is something to “keep an eye on”.
They didn’t want to rock the boat about a bouncing aircraft.
Excellent, Q.
Yes, Katie ‘the hold is cold’!!
Just stay at FL 500, Herr James, that’s where you belong, but please don’t smoke up there. There might be some rotten fruit fumes around.
“Yes, Katie ‘the hold is cold’!!”
…but not always. Clearly this person doesn’t understand that there are places outside the U.K. where the transportation of pets is allowed.
Like in Europe.
That’s the large land mass O Salt which is south of Monkey Island !
Captain Shah is setup as the scapegoat:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2664882/Captain-missing-MH370-flight-revealed-chief-suspect-Malaysias-official-police-investigation.html
james, please list all short runways in the southern indian ocean. Are there any? Abd are those available in flight simulators?
Follow the money. Which entity in Malaysia has a lot of money? Which entity has something that other countries want? Some ideas:
http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Business-News/2014/03/22/Crunch-time-for-Petronas-National-oil-firm-sets-aggressive-targets-for-overseas-ops-as-local-produc/
http://www.energyintel.com/pages/articlesummary/841349/chinese-private-firm-jovo-concludes-lng-term-deal-with-petronas
http://business.financialpost.com/2013/11/12/petronas-nears-deal-to-sell-canada-shale-stake-to-indian-company/?__lsa=f29e-9cb4
http://www.petronas.com.my/our-business/exploration-production/Pages/international-ep.aspx
What was that I read about disused drilling platforms being used for defence purposes?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea-based_X-band_Radar
@Bluebird: Isn’t that the same kind of tactic that was used to tar-and-feather Saad al-Hilli by his dear, omniscient “friend” Gary Aked? Aked said his friend had become radicalized in online forums. I’m surprised that the allegations in that case didn’t involve homosexuality or some sort of perversion, maybe along the lines of Gareth Williams. Perhaps that’s too OTT nowadays, given media attention and the longevity of interest in that case. Maybe no one would have believed it.
Back to Captain Shah, there were also backup allegations by the blonde Jonti Roos implying that he had been seeking some sort of fling with her.
Isn’t it amazing how many people come out of the woodwork making allegations in these sort of cases? The photo of a person with the captain of an airplane proves nothing. And so, the elusive “ruse” has faded away.
I do not know if this is of any use, but Duncan Steel et al show the flight path as directly overhead, and Australia is in charge of the search:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cocos_%28Keeling%29_Islands_Airport
http://www.airambulanceservices.com/airports/yangon-division/coco-island/coco-island-airport/ap26714/
GPS Code: VYCI
Elevation: 20 Feet
Latitude: 14.1415
Longitude: 93.3685
Length: 4443 Feet Width: 101 Feet Surface: BIT Lighted: No
Blue
“Unmanned” the reports say ?
Jesus, I don’t know. Is there any “due south” ?
As “Q” mentioned Coco/Keeling. That’s South
Reunion is South, but way out West
Maybe you’d get into Tromelin Island. That’s off West also. Way off.
Doubt they ever got “tarmac” down there though…
…but they have 1km of “sand n shit” if you fancy your chances. And your luck.
Personally I don’t know is the Malaysians are trying to “cover up” how bad they actually are (and they’ve failed at that) OR they are actually covering up “something else”. Hard to say.
But the a/c didn’t contact Vietnam ATC “straight away” which is the norm…especially on a quiet night flight. And then they went “blank”.
After that they say it turned towards Malaysia (outside of Primary coverage and off Secondary screens).
So the ONLY reason they “know” it turned and flew over Malaysia is that it entered Primary Radar coverage. When his transponder “went off” (no Secondary)…there wasn’t any “blip” on Primary screens either. No coverage. He’d gone completely. Now that’s a clever trick….or one hell of a piece of timing.
THE OTHER THING….
Maybe it was the Capt. Maybe it wasn’t. BUT….
…BUT this “breaking news story” goes back to 18th MARCH 2014 when it was reported that “mysterious” data/game play/information/whatever relating to FIVE (always 5 !) runways in the Indian Ocean, had been “discovered” !!!!
http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/cops-find-five-indian-ocean-practice-runways-in-mh370-pilots-simulator-bh-r
and
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/malaysia-airlines-mh370-pilot-had-five-runways-programmed-into-flight-simulator/story-fnizu68q-1226858982152
LATER on the 28th of MARCH The Malay Mail Online report that “the FBI came up with NO INCRIMINATING EVIDENCE” when looked at this Flight Sim thing.
http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/fbi-check-of-mh370-pilots-drives-flight-sim-comes-up-empty
Even later we have reports (Four Corners, Australia) that the flight sim was broken …and had been in that state for sometime.
And at some other time….in all this “reporting”….it was said that the United States Government/FBI/Batman’s Cave had taken the flight sim and would be looking into this further (it’s very odd that a foreign government gets involved directly in an investigation of this nature at that time).
So….. more confusion, subterfuge, incompetence, bullshit.
Call it what you will.
Me personally…..I think a number of things.
And they are likely wrong/right in the same degree !
1. Pilot suicide/mass murder.
2. Kidnap/hijack mass murder by person(s)/group unknown.
3. It was shot down *by Thailand, Malaysia, China or U.S. forces.
4. Some kind of cargo related “malfunction” (no idea how it flew on afterwards).
And those four cover about everything…..so it may turn out to be something else!
Or a combination of the first three.
Did GA Telesis fake a press release on the web? Seems so.
Now, months later, GA Telesis comes out with a back-dated press release that they slipped into their archives. It is clear, however, that this is a fabricated press release, crafted long after the Israeli twin was exposed on this website. The fraudulent press release does not appear in the Internet archives of the GA Telesis website from December 1, 2013. GA Telesis has been caught in a crude attempt trying to create a plausible history for the Israeli twin of MH370. Why would they be posting this after-the-fact press release now if they did not publish it when the plane was actually sent to Israel? –
See more at: (read article june 20 / scroll down) http://bollyn.com/#article_14753
Cocos island isnt really “south indian ocean”.
Why do they keep that destination a secret? No reason except when this is BS.
The below one is the only known airport in the south indian ocean, though they wouldnt land unnoticed there.
http://www.airportofrodrigues.com/index.php?nv=content&cID=28&tID=43
Rodrigues is available on MS flight simulator.
http://flyawaysimulation.com/downloads/files/7464/fsx-sir-gaetan-duval-airport-scenery/
http://www.phuketgazette.net/phuket-news/New-crowdsourced-data-shows-Phuket-yacht-sighting/30940#ad-image-0
Converting the Cocos runway to metres comes out to 1354.2m, FWIW.
As we recall, James, the FBI were in the area because they were involved with Thailand in some training exercises. Things went off the skid when that business of the coup/non-coup broke out.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/24/us-cancels-military-exercises-thailand-coup
Look at what they were training the Thai police to do:
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/webmobile/national/Timely-move-that-could-save-lives-30231589.html
Interesting article Blue.
And yep Q I recall that there was a “Military Exercise” taking place in the area.
So… sudden incident, aircraft tries for home, fails…and off into the sunset ?
It has happened before. So could have happened again.
But to fly on for so long ?
A question with regard “warheads”. If you “test fire” something, you don’t necessarily have a warhead on it ? Or at least an armed warhead ?
B777’s are put together very well. They are workhorses of the sky.
An impact may not bring one down (?)…but cause significant damage and it still carriers on flying (?).
Had a skim through the sailors forum.
Some interesting bits, so not so interesting bits.
Some seem to think she saw MH370.
Others think the “known” data doesn’t fit her GPS log.
However she appears honest. And has put herself “out there” to be shot at.
She answers questions from “The Press” on the forum. That way it is “on record”.
That’s quite smart.
Anyway….if it was MH370 that she saw…. it blows holes in many theories !
The “object” she saw in the sky was glowing “orange”.
It was “behind” her and passing over her previous track.
That would mean it was between her….and Banda Aceh, with that to her SW.
She also mentions that she could see a “smoke trail”.
She also mentions that there were TWO other aircraft in the area.
They were “higher” and travelling from “south to North”.
Which I take to mean to the NW of Banda Aceh.
I would imagine that those aircraft were routing through to Dubai / India / Europe and coming up the Malacca Strait from KUL, SIN or CGK. Possibly SIA068 out of SIN….and the other I don’t know.
The odd think is, the object was “orange”. She doesn’t at any point say “on fire”.
Distance from the aircraft object and fatigue may play a part here. But how does something (at a distance) “look orange”.
…and it continued over the horizon ! It didn’t crash or blow up.
So what did she see ? I think it was MH370 to be honest.
@James: But did it fly on? Everyone was quick to dismiss this report, but eager to accept Inmarsat’s calculations without question:
http://doubtfulnews.com/2014/03/seismic-event-on-the-ocean-floor-connected-to-mh370/
Q…. Who knows.
I think that “an aircraft on fire does not sustain flight”….
…due to hull damage, systems damage…and so on.
But who knows anything anymore. Say it did ?
Say it didn’t.
So “something” made the handshakes with INMARSAT.
But why ?
Go back to “say it did fly on”.
Firstly, it’s pretty amazing.
Secondly, what type of “fire” was it ? And when did it happen, if it did.
It’s hard to get past “goodnight”…and then 90 seconds we have all comms out and then a change of course. That clearly is the start of the “incident”.
But then what ? What was the initial incident ?
In answer to the question of whether or not the last flight of MH370 continued past the hand-off point, readers of this forum have formulated an answer:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jun/26/flight-mh370-investigators-oxygen-starvation-autopilot
Well, that settles it. Or does it?
What could cause hypoxia: some sort of fumes, perhaps from a toxic chemical reaction in the cargo hold?
Another “what the”?
Who set the course for MH370 if everyone was dead from hypoxia?
…and that’s the “problem” Mr Q.
It depends what “mode” it was on first.
But regardless of that, you’d have to “program” the autopilot.
How “in-depth” that programming was is the question (and which “mode” is used).
Normally you fly to “waypoints”, but I’m not sure it was the case here.
Doing that would take some time.
Then again (and I think this is what people are getting at) being in Track mode and setting the heading as 180 would get you there….and you’re over sea all the way South. You clear Malaysia and navigate around Indonesia…set the mode and hit “go” !
It’s just all too weird.
IGARI, PEN, VAMPI, MEKAR….then NIXUL. And TRK south on 180 ?
I mean “that” is navigation. That’s someone setting the autopilot.
When I go across The Atlantic…other than chitter chattering away on “1234” (which becomes like a “radio show” most time) you always have an eye out and are thinking “if something went wrong now, where would I go”. So at “IGARI” and you have a problem (that shuts off everything) would you A. Trust your instruments B. Trust the autopilot isn’t going to pack up C. Steer a route to “PEN”.
Then at PEN… do you think “I’ll go around Indonesia (you’ve already crossed land) and then head south”.
It’s hard to get away from “the pilot did it” if the above is the case.
Just to clarify…. the “waypoint” thing.
It “appears” that the first section of the disappearing aircraft route was flown on waypoints. I guess PEN. Then VAMPI, MEKAR, NILAM and possibly IGOGU. Or so the report goes.
The second section “due South” is suspected to have also have been flown on autopilot, but no “mode” is suggested for this.
The female U.K. sailor reports that she sighted (what was possibly) MH370 and two other aircraft in flight. If she was there…then it is highly likely she did.
And if her reports are correct (and why didn’t she report this earlier) she claims it was “glowing orange”.
INMARSAT then say “it continued to fly on for several hours”.
I guess there are three questions.
1. How did it divert from IGARI to the MEKAR waypoint area (inc a decent)
2. How did it turn south….and was “glowing orange” after MEKAR.
3. How did it “track” south.
Then again….
“I do work for CF (Cruise Forum) as a sales girl with a fancy title. I updated my public profile soon after starting this thread to reflect that. I did so in the interests of complete and open honesty. I receive a percentage of the advertising I sell”.
I guess they “like” the increase in traffic !
Epi-Lab is a semiconductor company that Mr
Janowski is involved with. This field is familiar to readers of the disappearing aircraft thread.
“n 1968, the Pentagon deployed Halibut to the Pacific to search for the wreckage of a sunken Soviet submarine that would later be partially recovered by a CIA team aboard a purpose-built salvage ship. Trailing a four-mile long cable rigged with cameras, Halibut found the Soviet vessel in 16,000 feet of water after just three weeks.”
http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2013/07/18/the-navys-underwater-eavesdropper/
Of course this was doable in 1968. Current technology is lacking in the face of such a huge challenge (MH 370)
I’ve posted about graphene and lithium batteries in the al-Hilli thread.
http://news360.com/article/240563794#
“Early research found that lithium batteries with graphene in their electrodes had better capacity and lifespan, when compared to standard designs….”But before we build the batteries we need to know how graphene will interact with the chemical components – specifically electrolytes.””
http://cen.acs.org/articles/88/i30/Graphite-Oxides-Flammability-Explained.html
“…in the solid state, the material can undergo self-sustaining deoxygenation that propagates throughout the entire sample. In contrast, the graphenelike products made from graphite oxide—reduced graphite oxide and chemically modified graphene—are highly flame resistant, the team finds. However, the products and especially the graphite oxide starting material become violently flammable when contaminated with potassium salt residues from graphite oxide synthesis, they report.”
Potassium salt is a very bad thing.
For an explanation of Mr. Janowski, refer to the other thread.
Hi guy´s, long time-no see…
I have a tech query of the infamous sitcoms.
When a pilot decides to switch off ACARS-data to the satcom-unit, would this only disconnect the dataport ?
Why did otherwise the Satcom unit reboot (when data was switched off), as the log from Inmarsat shows that the unit rebooted the first time when MH370 diverted before entering Vietnam airspace. As I have read the manuals, the only time the satcom reboots is in a power failure, and if there was a power failure already when it diverted, then the options would be:
A: Pilot has to enter the EE-bay and pull a fuse to the AC-buses for the Satcom unit.
B: Major fault on both AC_buses = big technical problems.
I assume that switchover between AC buses would be done without power interruption if A or B bus would have a problem, and therefore both A and B would be affected by a major problem.
Any hints here ?
I mean Satcoms – and I hate my automatic grammar correction (sitcoms) haha
mod can erase this…
Duqu
I can see that. What time (UTC) are you referring to ?
Log on/log off acknowledge ?
As far as I can see, it looks like INMARSAT “called” at…
18.25, 19.41, 20.41, 21.41, 22.41, 00.10.
The “disjointedness” of those times due to the reset being interrupted by the two attempted phone calls
And booting at 16.00 and 00.19 with these two events relating to “no power…to power” through the system. The latter possibly do to fuel starvation rather than RAT deployment.
What do you see ?
Malaysia may become a graphene hub. Graphene is being manufactured from the waste of the palm oil industry.
http://www.thestar.com.my/Business/Business-News/2014/04/12/Msian-firm-in-graphene-race-The-race-to-commercialise-graphene-in-the-oil-and-gas-industry-is-well-u/
Graphene is used in batteries, and more.
Scomi, mentioned above, has had its own problems.
http://blogs.wsj.com/corruption-currents/2011/07/15/state-department-lifts-sanctions-against-malaysian-businessman/