I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
Does anyone know what Malaysia Airlines’ practice is concerning passengers who check in baggage but do not actually board a plane? Elsewhere, airlines will search the baggage compartment and remove offending items. This causes costly delays and missed flights. Would MA just let it slide?
I did a quick search and found a couple of links about the people who didn’t board .
http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/the-tweets-from-a-passenger-who-claims-to-have-missed-boarding-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370/story-fnizu68q-1226852311845
http://www.todayonline.com/world/asia/everyone-who-checked-boarded-flight-mh370-police-chief
Q I seem to remember a while ago some posts about about swimming pool chemicals I cannot remember the details or find the page I assume it was on here do you recall ?
@Q It was labeled Fresh mangosteen you can find a copy here.
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2014/05/01/mh370-prelim-report-cockpit-tower-recordings-released/
Interesting piece showing how Putin could have been the target on MH17 and the reasons US has not shared relevant data.
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2014/08/on-truth-and-honor-the-mh17-shootdown-and-the-centenary-of-world-war-i-.html
@Pink:
False declaration of corrosive chemicals by a Chinese company in 2000:
http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/malaysia-airlines-crash-history
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxalyl_chloride
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lachrymatory_agent
Was it labelled “fresh mangosteen” then, too?
Was the final destination of 2014’s “fresh mangosteen” Beijing, or was it being forwarded from there? Given the amount of corruption in the port area where “fresh mangosteen” from Malaysia is shipped, it’s fair to say that anything could have been in that crate…anything but “fresh mangosteen”, that is.
Shipping lithium ion batteries to China makes as much sense as shipping tea to China, as previously discussed at length in this forum.
Whatever was in those shipping crates that was not mangosteen of any kind? China has its fingers in many pots:
http://www.zimbabwesituation.com/news/zimsit_china-plans-airbase-in-zimbabwe/
Maybe blood diamonds from Marange? Wild speculation, of course.
Not as crazy as it seems:
http://100r.org/2013/02/disappearing-diamonds/
FWIW, the late scientist Lachlan Cranswick was a coat-tail relative of Andrew Cranswick, who ran African Consolidated Resources.
The correct term for “blood diamonds” is “conflict diamonds” now, but the issue isn’t just diamonds. The broader issue encompasses “conflict minerals” around the world:
http://www.globalwitness.org/library/blood-diamond-director-ed-zwick-joins-our-conflict-minerals-campaign
A smelting facility in Butterworth, Malaysia has its own policy on “conflict minerals”:
http://www.msmelt.com/abt_policy.htm
http://www.msmelt.com/abt_cp.htm
This facility is a hub for minerals sourced in Africa.
@Pink:
Back to that earlier discussion about oxalyl chloride falsely shipped by a Chinese company on a Malaysia Airlines flight in 2000.
Oxalyl chloride is apparently easily converted to phosgene, according to an amateur chemists’ forum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosgene
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=13590
You may remember phosgene from the Iran-Iraq war in 1987.
@ Q I don’t know if you read the post I mentioned by Nihonmama but it was speculation about what might have caused the orange glow seen by Kate Tee
http://www.duncansteel.com/archives/899#comments
http://www.stuorg.iastate.edu/scum/sop/Sensitized_Oxalyl_Chloride.pdf
Nihonmama
2014/08/08 AT 02:34
Then Ed Truthan
2014/08/12 AT 20:40 on the same thread came up with another scenario based on winglets http://www.edtruthan.com/kt/20140811/
I don’t know what to think of the Tees info or the explanation on Duncan’s forum. What of the Malaysian woman returning from Jeddah who saw an airliner in distress? Would her story tie into this? If one is looking for planes that glow orange, how about Malaysia’s AirAsia?
Thinking also of the maintenance records destroyed in the mystery fire at Malaysia Airlines’ MRO after MH3370 disappeared — reported on a blog, but nowhere else.
They have had a good crack at ruling in or out Kate Tees sighting including showing her videos of various plane’s of various colours in that area that it might have been ,the Nihonmama post struck me because of some previous convo on here or the other thread about a company shipping swimming pool chemicals which I can’t locate now I thought it was you and BB who were talking about it that’s why I pointed it out .
The winglet idea seems a good one to explain the orange glow .
I came across this which is green so doesn’t fit but I wondered if there had been some testing on this idea that she might have seen .
http://australianaviation.com.au/2014/07/australian-developed-go-light-to-improve-aviation-safety/
The sighting by the woman from an overflying aircraft is a tricky one to suss out no one has spoken to her as far as I know just that original report in the papers.
I am inclined to believe the oil rig worker saw something but what is another question ,he seems clear enough that there was something
there .
Kate Tees sighting is odd she knew it was odd and she as done her best to give what info she can, its not everyday you come across an orange glowing aeroplane I think I would have been a bit confuddled 🙂
@Pink:
Do you know how much 80 canisters of oxalyl chloride would weigh in comparison to something like “fresh mangosteen” or “lithium ion batteries”? Given that there is a track record of this particular item that glows orange under the right conditions being shipped on Malaysia Airlines, the possibility of another illict shipment of the same or similar items deserves at least as much consideration as glowing wingtips, if not more.
The Chinese courts ordered a state-owned company to pay $65M in compensation for the 2000 incident involving Malaysian Airlines. Would this be enough to discourage future behavior, or would companies choosing Malaysia Airlines to transport illicit goods under false cover simply become more clever? In a culture of corruption, bribes, etc., with a port of origin for those “fresh mangosteen” that has a long reputation of questionable and outright illegal activity, I vote for the latter. Glowing wingtips are possible, but is that the most likely explanation? A known substance shipped on a carrier known to have transported it in the past seems more plausible.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/chinese-firm-ordered-to-pay-65m-over-chemical-damaged-mas-220107/
Is this the discussion you were referring to, Pink?
katie
16 Jun, 2014 – 10:02 pm
Hi Q, yes & so there should be a change .
The very fact that no one has published who the shippers & recipients were should have been questioned & answers found by now.
They have admitted carrying Lithium batteries, but even that sounds odd when there are millions made in China !
It’s not only the direct culprits & the airline, there must be staff who have the answers, why haven’t their palms been greased by some newspaper?
Maybe staff are too afraid to speak up because of the consequences…………….which only adds to the feeling this cargo was highly controversial…………. Unless, the plane had been PREloaded elsewhere ?
So what could it be, nuclear, arms, toxic chemicals,illegal drugs ?
Which of those would you plump for ?
Hi James.
Is cargo stringently checked on so called honest airlines , could a couple of loaders be corrupted easily, are they ever checked,who does check the crates,palettes,packages or do airlines just check the paperwork & take the shippers word for it ? Presumably they have to be routinely scanned for terrorist materials ? But again, whoever watches that screen could have been paid to turn a blind eye.
I can understand corruption between KL & Beijing,but would a Western company ship via that route knowing they could get something into Beijing which they couldn’t legally from the UK or Europe.
Q
16 Jun, 2014 – 11:28 pm
@Katie: “So what could it be, nuclear, arms, toxic chemicals, illegal drugs? Which of those would you plump for?”
So many choices, but it must be seriously bad, which is why we haven’t heard anything further. Its final intended destination is unknown. Is this why the international aviation officials are not commenting? How many countries had the mystery cargo passed through before it got to Malaysia and was labelled “fresh mangosteen”?
My latest internet searches involved the radioactive waste from the Australian mining company Lynas, which refines rare earth minerals in Malaysia. Malaysians don’t want it, and Australia won’t accept it. So where does it end up? No one knows.
But surely the entire world would not keep quiet if this cargo involved only two or three nations that could be the scapegoats.
From: http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/03/disappearing-aircraft/comment-page-14/#comment-461623
http://unitednuclear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29_54&products_id=1003
An airliner full of amber orange glow putty. Why not? It’s safe for children, and sold by United Nuclear. Or was it something like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A-PVqgy6N8
Other things that glow orange:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pu-238
Why China would be interested in things that glow orange:
http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2401/1
Why the complete unwillingness of international authorities to consider the findings of GeoResonance? If a large plane of some kind crashed in the Bay of Bengal and has been sitting on the seafloor, isn’t it worth investigating, whether or not it is MH370? If not MH370, then which other large plane is allegedly sitting in mud off the coast of Bangladesh, and why does nobody want it found?
What is GeoResonance’s proprietary technology: satellite images that show unnatural amounts of heat being generated by a downed airliner in salt water?
If an airline captain had to ditch at sea, due to some cargo that might put many people at risk (more than the number of passengers on his plane), maybe he should be considered a hero. However, insurance would not pay for a hero captain ditching at sea to save many more lives. Insurance might pay off for a rogue captain who took actions that his airline could not control. As for ditching a dangerous at cargo at sea, an airline that was known to have transported illicit/erroneously-labelled cargo in the past might not be viewed favorably in court. Insurers are wont to bring up the past in court, and Malaysia Airlines has a past.
And the big question, if very dangerous cargo such as Pu-238, for example, is routinely transported on passenger planes, the airline industry as a whole might collapse if people found out.
You did ask, Pink!
Here’s a question for you. What do you think of Duncan Steel’s background and reasons for visiting Canada this year? I think he’ll get a big crowd for this upcoming gig:
http://cpsx.uwo.ca/news?post_id=11689
Sorry, gig over.
Relevance to the gig mentioned, and things that glow:
http://www.duncansteel.com/archives/763
Past information on Duncan Steel:
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2000/jun/29/technology1
Asteroids and comets?
Thanks for the CM link its not the convo I mean it was something to do with a company who transports stuff used in swimming pools I can’t recall the context I just recall doing some follow up at the time and finding a connection with hazardous waste storage ,that post by Nihonmama triggered me remembering it and that I had put it on the backburner at the time.
You probably realize from the other thread I don’t get to technical I did find the orange glow from the nuke a bit unnerving though possibly slightly more orange than what Kate saw I will see if I can find the artist impression and post it .
Can I ask why would they even consider putting that Pu-238 stuff on a passenger airliner why not just a military plane or private plane ?
Here’s the artist impression of Kate’s sighting form Duncans site.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/0azlytl6awv1men/KTsightingbyEfortuin300dpi.png
Reading that old thread where you mentioned waste from wind turbines reminded me that Brett Martin ireland is into wind turbines and Mr Bewick is into cleanup operations I sometimes forget which thread I am on.
There is overlap between the threads, Pink. I can’t recall the swimming pool company. Maybe someone will dig around for it.
The Chinese state company’s use of Malaysia Airlines to transport falsely-labelled goods establishes a precedent. It has been done before, so what’s to stop it from being done again?
If something like Pu-238 were transported on a passenger plane, could we assume that there would be reasons for this, such as materials obtained illegally, circumventing regulations, trading in materials with countries that are embargoed, and so on? Think of the countries China is friendly with. Anything could have been in the cargo hold, as goods were not subject to inspection by the cargo companies who shipped the items until after MH370 vanished. New rules regarding inspection of cargo on passenger planes were not in effect at the time.
I imagine nuclear materials would be subject to stringent regulations and inspection. Not saying that this is what happened, just saying that anything could have happened, anything except fresh mangosteen in early March.
There is variation in what the mangosteen season is some just say warm summer months ,this exotic fruit farm in aus says :
http://www.capetrib.com.au/index.htm
” Two crops a year, in February and October. Fruit are picked at an early stage of maturity, when reddish-pink and before the dark purple develops.”
and
http://food52.com/blog/9616-all-about-purple-mangosteens
“Peak mangosteen season is in the heat of the summer, but they can be found at other times of the year as well.”
“Take note though: With the mangosteen’s short shelf life, most retailers require overnight shipping,”
Recovering old ground here, Pink.
These were not Australian “fresh mangosteen” but “port-o-corruption” mangosteen, picked out of season by non-existent pickers in Malaysia. Those non-existent workers were interviewed by authorities, too: impossible girls and boys. For extra interest, I noted that fruit bats in the Bangladesh area sometimes carry the Ebola virus. I’m half expecting that authorities will explain away their interviews with people who don’t exist, using fruit bats as an excuse. The virus may not be rampant in Malaysia yet, but corruption is.
Yes I see now Q it changed from the mangosteens were from Muar to sourced from Muar does look a bit suspect .
http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/igp-kills-suspicion-over-mh370-mangosteens-says-fruits-not-from-muar
@Pink: Yes, I wonder how they interviewed those impossible mangosteen pickers. Oh, wait — the world press must have heard “pickers”, but Malaysian officials actually said “packers” or something…. That must be why they are called “pluckers” now (do those impossible mangosteen have feathers, too?). Conveniently, this shipment was packed by parties unknown prior to the new regulations that would require inspection of cargo by the shipping company.
Thankѕ for sharing your thoughts about custom built home. Regards
Advanced Hypersonic Weapons like the one destroyed by the U.S. in Kodiak, Alaska, after a failed launch, also have an orange glow, Pink.