I had fairly well concluded that the most likely cause was a fire disrupting the electrical and control systems, when CNN now say the sharp left turn was pre-programmed 12 minutes before sign off from Malaysian Air Traffic control, which was followed fairly quickly by that left turn.
CNN claim to have this from an US official, from data sent back before the reporting systems went off. It is hard to know what to make of it: obviously there are large economic interests that much prefer blame to lie with the pilots rather than the aircraft. But if it is true then the move was not a response to an emergency. (CNN went on to say the pilot could have programmed in the course change as a contingency in case of an emergency. That made no sense to me at all – does it to anyone else?)
I still find it extremely unlikely that the plane landed or crashed on land I cannot believe it could evade military detection as it flew over a highly militarized region. Somewhere there is debris on the ocean. There have been previous pilot suicides that took the plane with them; but the long detour first seems very strange and I do not believe is precedented. However if the CNN information on pre-programming is correct, and given it was the co-pilot who signed off to air traffic control, it is hard to look beyond the pilots as those responsible for whatever did happen. In fact, on consideration, the most improbable thing is that information CNN are reporting from the US official.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Stansted_Airport
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/stansted-ryanair-crash-victim-passenger-describes-terror-as-pictures-emerge-of-damage-to-two-planes-involved-9571330.html
What goes on at Stansted?
Do read the comments at sott.net.
What goes on at Stansted:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/593649.stm
“Emergency services have insisted there was no danger to the public from depleted uranium on a Korean Air Boeing 747 cargo plane which crashed near Stansted Airport.
It has emerged that the plane, which came down shortly after leaving the Essex airport, contained several hundred kilograms of depleted uranium.
Investigators say they’re still looking for eight out of the 20 units of depleted uranium, built into the tail of the Boeing 747 cargo plane.”
Oil drilling equipment contains depleted uranium, as noted in this 1999 presentation to the British House of Commons:
http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/duupdate.htm
I have read that NATO had chartered Antonov aircraft for strategic airlift operations, and that Antonovs were stationed in Germany for this purpose. However, they were not the same model as the one that crashed in Equatorial Guinea.
Most likely UR-DWF would have contained DU, due to its age. It was built in 1968, long before manufacturers in western countries stopped using DU as counterweights in props, tails and wingtips. Who knows if Russia ever did?
Intense fire and DU are not a good combination.
You may well be right with the “plane for a plane” idea, Michael Norton.
If we believe everything we read, things are heating up on the Russian front, and the Ukraine is warning of nearing the point of no return. Putin apparently has his eye on the Arctic now:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/30/ukraine-russia-crisis-barroso-warns-putin-point-no-return
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/29/putin-ukraine-forces-nazis-arctic
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/turf-war-with-russia-looms-over-ottawas-claim-to-arctic-seabed/article15777123/
Maybe he wants a re-do of the Alaska Purchase, too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Purchase
It all goes back to the Crimean War.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tamanrasset
“The oasis town is now the site of the Joint Military Staff Committee headquarters for combating Al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb. The four-country Committee (Algeria, Mali, Niger, Mauritania) intends to use Tamanrasset to coordinate their military activity in the Pan-Sahel.”
Don’t you think it’s odd that nobody has mentioned Al-Quaeda?
Equatorial Guinnea
Teodoro Obiang Nguema Mbasogo, Longest ruling head of state.35 years so far
A rather “interesting” president who would seem to consider himself a “god” and is also accused of having been a torturer, when his uncle was president, who he had shot,
has been accused of cannibalism.
Seems to keep a personal hold of the countries wealth, did have large amounts of wonga deposited with Riggs Bank which has had to change its name after money laundering ofences.
Riggs had extensive ties to the CIA,
including that several bank officials held security clearances.
The Riggs name was retired and all Riggs branches became PNC Bank branches.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riggs_Bank
Incredible,
thirty hours after the Ukraine Antonov, flying from Glasgow, United Kingdom,
crashes in the desert
still no mention by the BBC?
http://www.key103.co.uk/news/uk-and-world/20140830-cargo-plane-crashes-in-southern-algeria/
Only three bodies found
what about the rest?
Aero Alliance is approved to transport dangerous cargoes, including for military use.
http://en.itar-tass.com/world/747358
The body of the captain is one of three bodies
so far discovered.
I don’t know if this has got anything to do with the Antonov crashing three minutes after take off from Tamanrasset ( headquarters for fighting Al-Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20140830-0
http://www.france24.com/en/20140831-algerian-diplomats-kidnapped-mali-2012-freed-guessas-miloudi/
Two Algerian diplomats who were kidnapped in Mali in April 2012 by the Movement for Oneness and Jihad in West Africa (MUJAO) were freed on Saturday, the Algerian foreign ministry announced.
UR-DWF – crashed on Aug 30 2014 in mountainous terrain about 15km/8nm south of Tamanrasset Aerodrome near the village of Tagrembait, Algeria.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine_Air_Alliance
An Antonov 12BK transport plane, registered UR-DWF, was destroyed in an accident near Tamanrasset Airport (TMR), Algeria. All seven crew members sustained fatal injuries.
The airplane departed Glasgow-Prestwick Airport (PIK), United Kingdom on August 29 as flight UKL4061, carrying oil equipment to Malabo (SSG), Equatorial Guinea. Technical stops included Ghardaia (GHA) and Tamanrasset.
The An-12 crashed in a mountainous area south of Tamanrasset Airport, three minutes after takeoff.
If you search for flight UKL4061 at Prestwick you get
No results found?
All seven dead, but only three bodies found? With all the hostage exchanges and prisoner releases in that area, could this have been one of those: someone extraordinarily rendered and returned? Six on board were said to be Ukrainian and one Russian. That is what is said.
No one has mentioned the Tuaregs, either. How unusual to gloss over both Al-Q and the Tuaregs, both of which are usually blamed for unusual incidents. The Tuaregs are known to inhabit the Sahara desert near where the plane crashed. In fact, Tuaregs make up the majority of the population of Tamanrasset.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuareg_people
What is it about Stansted? Note that Ryanair has aspirations for greatness at Ben Gurion Airport in Israel, and the 9M-MRI that flew into Stansted on the same day as the now-crashed Ukrainian cargo plane was photographed at Ben Gurion with a new coat of paint. 9M-MRI is the doppelganger for 9M-MRO, or MH370 as it is widely known, which vanished into thin air on March 8, 2014.
What a series of coincidences. How extremely unusual that “Sahara Desert” is not usually mentioned in the stories about the crash of UR-DWF, when the mention of it might make people think about the Tuaregs. How quiet things are about Al-Q.
Is Glasgow a stop on the world tour of extraordinary rendition sites? Find the answer to this burning question here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/6737609.stm
UR-DWF visited Luxembourg often. What is in Luxembourg? Note the 17 NATO AWACS aircraft in this tiny nation. How does a country with only half a million people get a (temporary) seat on the United Nations Security Council?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luxembourg
Why “unknown airline” on this site?
http://www.libhomeradar.org/databasequery/details.php?qid=1833515&sid=6945790889&page=0
Who would charter this plane for frequent flights to Luxembourg? Let me think. I’ll get back to you on that.
Planespotting can be hazardous to extraordinary events:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2005/dec/10/usa.terrorism1
As can satellites:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/01/19/google_earth_prestwick/
Stansted planespotters might know a thing or two:
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2006/mar/04uk-cia-flights.htm
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/may/22/uk-support-cia-rendition-flights
How many images have been bought from planespotters in order to remove them from the public eye? “Paul” from Glasgow didn’t sell out.
INCREDIBLE
more than 50 hours has elapsed since UR-DWF flight UKL4061
crashed in the Sahara Desert, this flight came from Prestwick,(PIK) SCOTLAND
this airport also hosts military aircraft and has previously
been implicated in extraordinary rendition.
HOW COME THE BBC DOES NOT MENTION?
Malaysia
Malaysia
Algeria
Algeria
Ukraine
Ukraine
funny how when a plane goes off piste the same names keep cropping up?
David Cameron is to give intelligence agencies the power to vet airline flight lists in an effort to stop jihadis entering the United Kingdom.
The US-style laws would compel all airlines flying into the country to provide much more information about passengers.
If the name of a traveller appears on a watchlist the plane may not be permitted to land in the UK unless the person is stopped from boarding.
What if you have killed someone in Syria/Iraq/Lebonon and taken their passport /identity
how would David Cameron know who you really are, even before you get to the United Kingdom?
No talk of any black boxes from flight UKL4061
I can imagine that a military aircraft would not have any black boxes because if it was shot down over hostile terortory you would not want the “other” to know what was what but we have been led to understand although UR-DWF was originally a military aircraft of The Soviet Union,
in this guise it it but a commercial aircraft.
Would the U.K. allow commercial aircraft to operate out of Scotland without black boxes?
I wonder if the body of “the Russian” is one of the “missing” people?
http://www.aaib.gov.uk/search_results.cfm
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01 September 2014
Sorry, there are no results for UKL4061 .
Please check the spelling of your search term or try a different search.
@ Michael Norton:
It all gets blurry, and this is why it is hard to know what was going on with the al-Hillis:
“There is no better example than that of the practice of extraordinary rendition where the current and previous administrations cooperated with dictatorial regimes that they condemned publicly but cooperated with clandestinely.”
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/02/05/extraordinary-rendition-axis-of-evil-iran-syria-cia_n_2621401.html
This is not the al-Hilli thread, but of course it would be interesting to know about the missing passports, and whether the people under those shrouds were confirmed with DNA. It’s obvious that “William Martin” is the name of an infamous switcheroo and the creation of a “man who never was”.
If the chartered Ukrainian charter plane that crashed in the Sahara Desert of Algeria in Tuareg territory was involved in extraordinary rendition, then this could explain the BBC silence and how four people on that plane have been declared dead without proof that they actually did die. How do four people vanish from a plane, leaving three bodies to be found? Would three people be enough to operate an Antonov An-12?
The one shown here in detail is operating as an Air Charter Service out of the UK:
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-articles/read.main?id=54
http://www.aircharter.co.uk/cargo_charter.htm
http://www.aircharterserviceplc.com/
I checked the company’s website and it is not showing the An-12 on its list any more. The “Chicken Kiev” article is from 2003.
The air charter service above has been involved in humanitarian efforts such as the Asian tsunami. There is no indication that the Antonov that crashed in the Sahara Desert was in any way affiliated with the charter service above. “Chicken Kiev” is an illustration of what the aircraft looked like in detail.
The crashed Antonov was built in 1968 and very few of that era remain.
Algeria, again
http://www.moroccoworldnews.com/2014/08/137730/mysterious-airstrike-in-tripoli-carried-out-by-algeria-not-uae-egypt-expert/
This gets good. Posted on December 11, 2011, UN-DNW with a NATO plane and a gray military plane at Prestwick in 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdr0CtPTJ5w
This is an AN-12BK, designed exclusively for the Soviet military.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_An-12
This appears to be the NATO Sentry plane in question, LX-N90445, a Boeing 707, which made an unscheduled overnight stop on Dec. 10, 2011:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/johncayr/6488846965/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/johncayr/6484201287/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Lor6Nm6pk
http://forums.airshows.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=39312
http://www.raf.mod.uk/organisation/stations.cfm?selectLocation=Scotland
http://www.e3a.nato.int/
The NATO Boeing E3A Sentry is based in Luxembourg. It was diverted to Prestwick, then UR-DNW flew out. UR-DNW made frequent trips to Luxembourg in its time.
Glass cockpits are useful for surveillance planes, so the NATO fleet is undergoing conversion. UR-DNW also had a glass cockpit.
http://www.e3a.nato.int/eng/html/stories/story_092.htm
I expect a look through the manifest of UKL4061 would make an interesting read.
X persons for rendition from Glasgow-Prestwick (PIK)to BLACK BEACH Equatorial Guinnea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Beach
Mali hopes to sign peace deal with Tuaregs, within weeks, talks start today in Algeria
http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/09/01/uk-mali-rebels-idUKKBN0GW2D320140901
From your link, MN:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Mann
So it’s back to Mark Thatcher again. And how about the UN’s stand on Black Beach Prison?
“It has a reputation for systematically neglecting and brutalising inmates. Medical treatment is usually denied to inmates and food rations are said to be meagre. (The United Nations’ Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners requires minimal medical treatment for all prisoners.)”