I am not opposed to self determination for the people of Crimea; I am opposed to this referendum. Nobody can seriously argue there has been a chance for a campaign in which different viewpoints can be freely argued, with some equality of media access and freedom from fear and intimidation.
Hitler invaded Austria on 12 March 1938. The Anschluss was confirmed in a plebiscite on 10 April, just 28 days later, by a majority of 99.7%. Putin has done it in less than half of the time, and I have no doubt will produce a similar result in the vote. The point is not whether or not the vote reflects the will of the people – the point is whether the will of the people has been affected by military demonstration, fear, hysterically induced national psychosis and above all an absence of space for debate or alternative viewpoints.
There is no reasonable claim that Putin’s swift plebiscite is necessary because of an imminent threat of violence against Russians in Crimea. There is absolutely no reason that a referendum could not have been held at the end of this year, in a calm and peaceful atmosphere, after everybody had a chance to campaign and express their position. Putin has proved that force majeure is powerful in international politics, and there is every reason to believe that he could have finessed international acceptance of such a referendum in due course. Germany, in particular, is much more interested in its own energy supplies than in the rights of Ukraine. In twenty years in diplomacy, I never saw a single instance of Germany having any interest in rights other than its own national self-interest. It is very likely such a genuine referendum would have gone in Russia’s favour. But the disadvantages of open debate about the merits and demerits of Putin’s Russia, and his own self-image as the man of military prowess, led Putin to take the more violent course.
The vote yesterday in the Security Council should give every Putinista pause. Not even China voted with Russia. The Africans and South Americans voted solidly against. That is not because they are prisoners or puppets of the United States – they are not. Neither did they take the easy road of abstention. The truth is that what Putin is doing in Crimea is outrageous.
What happens now is going to be interesting. I greatly fear that Putin is looking to stir up as much disorder in Ukraine’s Eastern provinces as possible, perhaps with the aim of promoting civil war in which Russia can covertly intervene, rather than open invasion, but I do not put the latter past him. Against that, I am quite sure Russia did not expect the extreme diplomatic isolation, in fact humiliation, it suffered at the UN yesterday. I am hopeful Russia may step back from the brink.
The EU I expect to do nothing. Sanctions will target a few individuals who are not too close to Putin and don’t keep too many of their interests in the West. I don’t think Alisher Usmanov and Roman Abramovic need lose too much sleep, that Harrods need worry or that we will see any flats seized at One Hyde Park. (It is among my dearest wishes one day to see One Hyde Park given out for council housing.) Neither do I expect to see the United States do anything effective; its levers are limited. I doubt we have seen the last of Mr Putin’s adventurism.
Human society is not perfectible, which does not mean we should not try. I believe western democracy, particularly in its social democratic European manifestation from approximately 1945 to 2000, achieved a high level of happiness for its ordinary people and an encouraging level of equality. For approximately 20 years unfortunately we have witnessed a capitalism more raw and unabated than ever before, and massively growing levels of wealth inequality, a reduction in state provision for the needy, a distortion of state activity further to line the pockets of the rich, ever increasing corruption among the elite and growing levels of social immobility and exclusion, a narrowing of the options presented by major political parties until there is not a cigarette paper between them and their neo-conservative agendas, and a related narrowing by the mainstream media of the accepted bounds of public debate, with orchestrated ridicule of opinions outside those bounds. Democracy, as a system offering real choice to informed electors, has ceased to function in the West leading to enormous political alienation. On the international scene the West has retreated from the concept of international law and, heady with the temporary unipolar US military dominance, adopted aggressive might is right polices and a return of the practices of both formal and informal imperialism.
But every single one of those things is true of Putin’s Russia, and in fact it is much worse. Wealth inequality is even more extreme. Toleration of dissent and of different lifestyles even less evident, the space for debate even more constricted, the contempt for international law still more pronounced. Putin’s own desire for imperialist sphere of influence politics leads him into conflict with aggressive designs of the west, as for example in Syria and Iran. The consequence can be an accidental good, in that Putin has thwarted western military plans. But that is not in any sense from a desire for public good, and if Putin can himself get away with military force he does. His conflicts of interest with the west have deluded a surprising number of people here into believing that Putin in some ways represents an ideological alternative. He does not. He represents a capitalism still more raw, an oligarchy still more corrupt, a wealth gap still greater and growing still quicker, a debate still more circumscribed. It speaks to the extreme political failure of the western political system, and the degree of the alienation of which I spoke, that so many strive to see something beautiful in the ugly features of Putinism.
Relax, John. The phantom gold is alive and well in all our imaginations. My question is; WTF are they guarding at Fort Knox? Aliens?
Another gem from N_
“In Budapest, secret police snipers killed ordinary police officers. The ordinary police responded by killing massed unarmed demonstrators.3
__________________
Wrong. Secret police marksmen killed demonstrators and not ordinary policemen. And the ordinary police went over to the demonstrators, as did most of the Hungarian military. For Heaven’s sake do your research!
“why do you choose to support one of them?”
Craig; Can we not dissuade you from taking what appears to be an intransigent position?
Do you subscribe to the notion (as exemplified by Uzbek, Res Des, and Hababkuk) that there are clear lines of demarcation, making black and white the new Spring fashion?
BTW; What happened to the mod decision to ‘pre-moderate’ the bleatings of a certain species of sheep?
@Uzbek
Can you support your case without attributing to your opponents positions which they don’t hold?
And you imply that throwing bile is bad, but you throw a torrent of your own.
Personally I think (and certainly hope) that the west is not about to provoke a full-scale war in the Ukraine. I tend to think that had they wanted to hit Russia really hard during the Summer Olympics, they would have done it in the Caucasus. For example, Britain’s pals in that area could have done another Beslan.
Paul Barbara. 1 05 pm
You put it in a nutshell: “…I thank God they are standing up against the marauding NWO Bankster War Criminal psychopaths/sociopaths.”
A short list maybe, but it covers the main attributes of the string pullers.
How democratic is the Crimean referendum compared to the unelected puppet government in Kiev?
Why should Ukrainian people be ruled by unelected, west-sponsored and rabidly anti-russian fascists?
As well as trying to understand the Russian perspective on Ukraine it seems like it’s up to us to encourage our own politicians to insist on something better than Svoboda to aid the Ukrainian population that the, not so covert, actions of our elites have cut adrift from any semblance of democracy.
Putin (Prince of Darkness) may be a flawed figure (aren’t we all, aside from me?) but he is taking a stand for victims of Nuland’s coup, ethnic Russians and none fascist Ukrainians alike.
How long is it since a referendum in Western Europe achieved an 83% turnout or a 93% mandate? No need to get the electorate to try again like when the Irish got their vote wrong in 2008. Maybe the EU should send researchers to Crimea to see how democracy can work.
Craig; “If all that counts is realpolitik, and it is just two military powers squaring up to one another, why do you choose to support one of them?”
Same as NC really;
http://noam-chomsky.tumblr.com/post/17547861328/my-own-concern-is-primarily-the-terror-and
BTW you could have confirm to Technicolour your view on “Lefties”;
“The problem is that many on the left will ever accept any analysis which does not simply say “Western evil bastards, Putin heroic defender f freedom”. Anything else is “ignorant”.
Some good news from elsewhere in Ukraine. It seems the puppet government cannot depend on the Ukrainian army.
“Most of the soldiers calmly reacted to the actions of local residents and did not initiate any conflict. Moreover, they stressed that they will not use any violence against civilians.
However, seven young people dressed in uniforms of the Ukrainian armed forces, but without shoulder straps, armed with Kalashnikov rifles with silencers, began to force the unit commander to “obey orders“ to disperse locals and dismantle the barricades.
Reportedly, a scuffle occurred as the unidentified men threatened the residents saying they “betrayed Ukraine.” The troops’ commander who defended the civilians was injured in the fight.”
More here: http://rt.com/news/ukraine-east-military-block-198/
Also from ResDes, I have had nothing but evasion on the issue of who the ‘real Left’ is.
It is a major bone of contention and if the flamers are left to party over the remains, nothing remains.
ResDes;”my dislike of Putin is driven by a love of Russia and Russians”
Same as your love for Syrians to be bombed because of your “dislike” of Assad ?
(
I think it’s fair to say that this thread , together with previous ones on the same subject, has got the Eminences and various other disturbed people hotter under the collar than any other.
I also note that it is these threads which have, for the first time that I can remember, resulted in unprecedented abuse of Craig: insults include calling him a drunkard, mad, angling for a return to the FCO and being in the pay of the neocons.
I marvel at Craig’s patience and his ability to suffer fools gladly. Perhaps he is of the school of the chairman of an engineering company in the Midlands (this was in the 1950s or early 60s and I believe the company was called Hardy Spicer) who said of his workforce when they went on one of their frequent strikes “I feel sorry for them. They are poor dears”.
***********
Ruble plunging, buy dollars!
“Most of the soldiers calmly reacted to the actions of local residents
__________________
Makes a change from burly Cossacks whipping the female members of the Pussy Riot group, doesn’t it 🙂
It could be my error for which I apologize if need be. N_’s comment was 2 hours earlier.
mea culpa.
I take it back.
Just been getting a barrel of laughs from the barrel of apples. Time for bed.
Craig,
I admire your fondness for hitlerite scenarios of modern history. This must be, however, quite exhausting as documented by your slight confusion concerning topography. Hitler has not entered Crimea but Kiev. If you have any doubts please have a look at the latest decorations of Kiev’s townhall.
http://croah.fr/corbeau-dechaine/le-portrait-de-bandera-devant-lhotel-de-ville-de-kiev/
“Ruble plunging, buy dollars!”,
If the rouble is plunging, you buy the rouble.
It can only go up.
Otherwise we’re all dead.
Craig, did you not feel it worth commenting on the death of Tony Benn, without doubt, in our times, the finest politician this Country has ever produced? The ironic connection between him & your posting on the Ukraine, is that he was famous for stating that his socialist & humanistic ideals actually strengthen the older he got, as opposed to the normal trend that is supposed to be that many people start with Leftist ideals but veer more & more to the Right as they older; in fact there are many recent cases of this, starting with Christopher Hitchens, and now including Richard Seymour. I direct you to a MediaLens thread about Seymour position on the Ukraine, and would suggest that the criticisms directed at his Ukraine stance, in particular those posted by “gloriousrevolution”, could also apply to your stance, apart of course, from the motivating factor, as career minded Seymour has to worry about being “marginalized”, but as you are already marginalized to a certain extent, one is left wondering as to exactly what is your motivation ?
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/thread/1394980439.html
Craig,
the picture of Hitler is a nice hoax but Bandera was a prominent sycophant of Hitler and a war criminal.
Never mind about the gold, good people… (whether or not you agree with Craig. This (below) is potentially even more serious.
http://rt.com/news/yarosh-destroy-russia-pipelines-186/
And let us not forget “fuck the EU”. I hope Angela Merkel smells the coffee and distances herself from this awful regime.
Macky
I think that criticism is true of many on the left, yes. Thankfully not a majority.
Wow. A non-denial, denial.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oG4ndbhOkpI
And with that, Herbie…..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TpOOy7voiZI
John @ 10;25 pm
nice one… people keep saying follow the £ $….
None of this is about that tired defunct left / right paradigm. It is about illegal non democratic violent coups supported by hypocritical leaders in positions of power and the corporate media who lie and cheat their way around the world
Cheers, Ben
Halibabacs
I hate to use these frivolous obscenities but as I fully and unconditionally identify with the EU, its marvellous commission, the elected as well as all the unelected bureaucrats, I must strongly object getting fucked by that sleazy Nudelman. Given your peculiar leaning and treacherous nature, it seems to me that you would not mind getting yourself nudel-fucked. Give the “new” old blue eyes a call but please dont write about the aftermath as this could be read by minors.
Dmitry Orlov with reports from the front:
“Is anyone really in control in Ukraine?”
“it appears that Ukraine’s military (which has never been involved in any armed conflict anywhere and is poorly trained and poorly armed) is mostly on the Russian side already, and, in any case, not willing to follow orders from Kiev.”
So the fascist govt in Kiev have raised a squad of 60,000 brownshirt goons:
“It also appears that the National Guard goon squads being hastily organized by the government in Kiev may be effective at intimidating civilians, but that they won’t be much of a military force.”
That the Europeans are supporting this nonsense on their borders is the height of insanity.
http://cluborlov.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/is-anyone-really-in-control-in-ukraine.html#more
Craig; “I think that criticism is true of many on the left, yes. Thankfully not a majority”
You actually believe that some Westerners criticize their countries simply because they irrationally hate their own countries, rather than they criticize bad things their countries do, because their personal ethical/religious sense of right & wrong is greater than any nationalistic dogma of “My Country, Right or Wrong” ?!