I should start by saying that I deeply regret, and have always regretted, the support for Hamas amongst Palestinians. I view Hamas as a nasty organization espousing an unpleasant and narrow version of Islam, and far too ready to turn to violence. I regret the passing of the secular minded and sophisticated wide culture of the urbane Palestinian elite of my youth.
I understand that Palestinian willingness to embrace the limiting certainties of Hamas is due to the appalling pressure caused by decades of unspeakable violence and repression by Israel, the squeezing of Palestinians into ever-shrinking over-crowded reservations, the killings, the continual unrelenting humiliation, the deliberate destruction of all economic base. I understand Hamas won support through social programmes. I understand the extreme corruption of the Fatah leadership, where some seemed to do very nicely out of the disaster that repressed everybody else. I understand the role of Israel and the US in promoting the initial growth of Hamas to weaken the Palestinian cause. My regret is that they succeeded.
Personally I doubt that this latest Hamas/Fatah rapprochement will last any longer than the previous ones. Even for a people in the direst situation, there will always be self-seeking sociopaths emerging as leaders.
But even with all that, the appalling smug reaction of Netanyahu is sickening. Israel at no stage had the slightest intention of entering any meaningful peace process, stopping settlement building, or reducing the dispossession and discrimination suffered by Arabs of all sorts within Israel itself. The World’s most vicious and unrelenting theological and racist state continues to be just that. The United States was not in any sense genuinely involved in abetting a peace process; it was managing the process of genocide of the Palestinians, drawn out over decades, just conducted with enough disguise to allow the mainstream media to pretend it is not happening.
I do not like Hamas, but they remain morally superior to Netanyahu on every conceivable measure.
http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/kelly-ben-maimon/49/341/94a
Wonder which government and relations with whom? Hope it’s not Kensington Green!
Jemand – well, to give a single example, the punishment for adultery prescribed in the Koran is not death, it is a short period of confinement. The Koran is actually way in advance of its time in equality of women (remember Muhammad’s wife was an older woman and a merchant in her own right). What has happened to Islam is it has been overlain by practices which are purely tribal custom – just as David Cameron’s policies have bugger all to do with Christianity.
In a wider sense, the great cosmopolitan culture in which Omar Khayyam, Rumi and Ibd Sinna worked (to name but three) which was way in advance of the West in its day, got crushed by the obscurantism of an uneducated clergy who gained tribal influence.
A large topic. Forgive the cartoon description.
A question for the particularly fervent Israel obsessives:
I’ve had a quick look at the IHRRI country rankings by human rights record and there are about 154 countries below Israel on that list. I very seldom see any of you comment on any one of those countries, and never with the intense animosity you reserve for the Jewish homeland.
Why do you single out Israel in this regard? I could understand were you Palestinian, but you live comfortable lives thousands of miles away in places like Surrey and yet of all the places in the world you could exercise your considerable spare time to admonish, you go for Israel, every time.
Why is that?
there are about 154 countries below Israel on that list.
And 55 above it, including China, and the Russian Federation. Only 1% behind is Venezuela… Indicating a pretty low bar, which Israel, though asserting its aspirations to join the EU, fails to clear. Perhaps if Israel didn’t make such a fuss about being a beacon of democracy and civilised values yadayada, it might be easier to overlook its private shooting range in Gaza, its thousands of prisoners held indefinitely without charge or access, or its clandestine nukes.
And I note that many who deplore the dual standards on which Israel operates, and its creeping ethnic cleansing, are just as free with their criticism of inconsistencies in their own countries.
You want to be judged as a pluralistic democracy? Be one. Meanwhile, here comes the cavalry to apply yet more pressure to the dispossessed. John Wayne meets fish in barrel.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/24/us-palestinian-israel-idUSBREA3N0IN20140424
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/24/us-palestinian-israel-idUSBREA3N0IN20140424
Anon
I think you will find that ranking excludes what happens in Gaza and West Bank, where Israel makes life hell for the people. That might give you a clue.
Craig
Palestine is 87th.
Palestine is 87th.
Suddenly Palestine exists! If only as a sink for embarrassing statistics…
Doesn’t address Craig’s point though, does it?
“And 55 above it, including China, and the Russian Federation. Only 1% behind is Venezuela… Indicating a pretty low bar, which Israel, though asserting its aspirations to join the EU, fails to clear. Perhaps if Israel didn’t make such a fuss about being a beacon of democracy and civilised values yadayada, it might be easier to overlook its private shooting range in Gaza, its thousands of prisoners held indefinitely without charge or access, or its clandestine nukes.”
China and Russia are marginally above Israel, and yet China receives no criticism here and of course the sun shines out of Putin’s arse. Venezuala is another fave and all 154 countries below Israel are barely ever touched upon by the Israel obsessives, excepting Uzbekistan which is of special interest to the blog. You are totally obsessed with Israel.
Needless to say, Israel is a “beacon of democracy” when compared to the states surrounding it, all of which feature well below it in the rankings.
Anon-1st post; “Why do you single out Israel in this regard? I could understand were you Palestinian, but you live comfortable lives thousands of miles away in places like Surrey and yet of all the places in the world you could exercise your considerable spare time to admonish, you go for Israel, every time”.
“Why is that?”
Good God. I’m about to throw up. Seriously. No wonder you’re ‘Anon’.
Well written Craig, Netanyahu will destroy his own base by refusing to talk about peace negotiations, his own supporters accuse him having wasted ten years with silence.
The only thing I find dubious about Hamas is its inception and who was involved. That it now has morphed is also understandable, but who is pulling their strings?
Now O/T a live ticker in German on the Spiegels website tells me that Kiev, since 11:47 this morning is preparing to blockade, what they call is the centre of the rightwing rebels, Slavajansk. They are also raising the sceptre of WW3 as Russia is trying to stop the rubel loosing value.
Kiev has been warning Russia this morning that ‘any Russian border violations would be dealt with as a military invasion and the attackers will be destroyed’ Sergey Pashinski said in lieu for the Kiev president.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/ukraine-russland-liveticker-kiew-spricht-von-drittem-weltkrieg-a-966074.html
The wall street journal paywall speaks of a Local politician who was tortured and murdered after raising the Ukrainian flag against the will of the rebels.
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303380004579521961909153506
This situation, with Russia’s economy in the dumps, is getting worse every moment and I’m acutely aware that I’m living downwind from the main US logistical hub for their nukes in the EU, at Mildenhall….;)
Mhara Castello
Re spare time, Surrey, and a fixation with Jews/Israel above all else, you’re probably not familiar with the reference.
Why “throw up” when you have it pointed out to you that 154 countries below Israel on human rights receive next to no attention from the Israel obsessives here? Are you sick?”
You are totally obsessed with Israel.
So are you, by the look of it.
But I don’t see Freedom ‘n Democracy, Inc, giving $3Bn of its taxpayers’ money to Russia, China, Venezuela et al annually, do you?* I don’t see a slavish regard by our leaders for the finer nuances of Venezuela’s suffering and the importance of ensuring that it becomes the regional superpower, do you? I don’t see the America Russia Public affairs Committee leaning on US congressmen and stuffing their campaign chests with money, do you?
* Just Egypt, on condition that now that democratic nonsense has been forgotten, it helps Israel blockade Gaza…
Israel is the closest festering sore we’ve got. Other problems come and go, but Israel has been poisoning the region for – at the kindest estimate – 50 years, and it is being propped up by MY government. I have a right to worry.
Mhara Costello is not as sick as you appear to be, puppy anon.
Read the thread, has it got anything to do with Kommunist rebels in India or the Phillipines? Does it speak of the forces that challenge Maduro, or of the 200 unfortunate hostages taken by a group of radicals in Nigeria, NO, it is about Netanyahu’s self destructive moves and the worlds arch conflict, not my term. I’d call it fascism.
try and keep up.
Israel is a “beacon of democracy” when compared to the states surrounding it, all of which feature well below it in the rankings.
It’s a beacon of democracy compared to a collection of states which have never pretended to be democracies. Well done you. And it’s 5% ahead of Kazakhstan. Five. Per. Cent. Pfft. Think you’d better tell your boss the IHRRI is antisemitic…
Nevermind
“Read the thread”
You’d have a point if every thread not about Israel wasn’t quickly diverted to the favourite hobby horse – Israel.
Nevermind
Anyone familiar with your dark, Germanic mutterings on these pages knows you are the one with the sick and twisted mind.
Eg, I disagree with you on the West as the root of all evil and what do you do? Compare me with an American serial rapist and murderer.
I mention that I have the odd flutter on the horses and what do you say? I will die.
Just weird.
Baal Zevul etc
“It’s a beacon of democracy compared to a collection of states which have never pretended to be democracies.”
Quite. It’s a beacon of democracy compared with the oppressive regimes surrounding it, few of which resemble anything close to a democracy and all of which feature well below Israel in the human rights index.
Well, my favourite hobby horse is Tony Blair, and it looks as if he’s attracting adverse attention in Saudi Arabia*
http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20140425203051
(new, female editor, btw. Can’t think of a mainstream UK paper with a lady boss, can you?)
*#206 on the IHRRI index, one of our staunchest allies. And yours, Anon, and yours… http://barrylando.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/saudis-backrolling-israels-mossad.html
Quite. It’s a beacon of democracy compared with the oppressive regimes surrounding it, few of which resemble anything close to a democracy and all of which feature well below Israel in the human rights index.
Repeating yourself does not make your argument any better. However, if you are content to be judged by the standards of mediaeval theocracies with tribal traditions, that’s fine. And probably more appropriate. Now just stop pretending to be anything else, and we’ll see what we can do about rehabilitating you. We’ll have the 1.25 million guys in that giant prison camp of yours out and enjoying free enterprise with the rest of the world for a start, eh?
grow up anon, my, what you call, dark twisted and sick mutterings, can’t possibly throw you off course.
If you would stop wriggling when faced with the facts in Gaza, the westbank and East Jerusalem, you would not have to be downright rude to people.
What is backrolling?
Is it when you ask your unnamed mate as a “good source” for your blog?
Iran 169th
Syria 212th
Iraq 184th
Palestine 87th
Lebanon 126th
Turkey 91st
Now get obsessing!
Bye for now.
Heard this coming home. Just 5 mins.
Adie, who has a Tunisian father and who has inherited his mother’s wanderlust, decided that he wanted to see Gaza for himself and find out what was going on. He gives a very graphic account of his slow journey on an aid boat which, as it neared Gaza was suddenly surrounded by Israeli gunships. The usual followed. Then he was knocked about and imprisoned in Israel. The Israelis just hate anyone who tries to help the Palestinians in Gaza.
‘Adie and Ruth – Adventure in the Blood
Duration: 5 minutes
First broadcast:Friday 25 April 2014
Fi Glover introduces Adie, who might not have been born if his mother hadn’t set off travelling, and Ruth, who might have had fewer worries if Adie hadn’t inherited her travel bug – another conversation in the series that proves it’s surprising what you hear when you listen.
The Listening Project is a Radio 4 initiative that offers a snapshot of contemporary Britain in which people across the UK volunteer to have a conversation with someone close to them about a subject they’ve never discussed intimately before. The conversations are being gathered across the UK by teams of producers from local and national radio stations who facilitate each encounter. Every conversation – they’re not BBC interviews, and that’s an important difference – lasts up to an hour, and is then edited to extract the key moment of connection between the participants. Most of the unedited conversations are being archived by the British Library and used to build up a collection of voices capturing a unique portrait of the UK in the second decade of the millennium. You can upload your own conversations or just learn more about The Listening Project by visiting bbc.co.uk/listeningproject
Producer: Marya Burgess
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0418wyh
He’s run out of ideas, Nevermind. Doesn’t take long, does it? Sort of like a kid who pisses himself in class: “But, Miss, Johnny did a poo in his trousers yesterday”.
He could be proud of Israel if it lived up to its fine principles. But it doesn’t, So he blusters.
I’m glad I’m not a Palestinian. What an unenviable fate. But I guess we should encourage the peacemakers in both camps, as best we can.
Your comment above Baal reminded me of the current P Eye cover.
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/pictures/covers/full/1364_big.jpg
Craig, thanks for your reply, but I’m puzzled. You’re an educated and intelligent man with a wealth of life experience. And you are a keen researcher for your causes and published writing.
So how am I to make sense of the conflict between what you say about Islam (in this case in regard to adultery) and the many credible sources concerning severe punishments prescribed by Islamic teachings?
Example 1 –
http://www.quranexplorer.com/hadith/english/Hadith/dawud/038.4435.html
Example 2 –
sunnah.com/abudawud/40/85
Example 3 -Book 38, Number 4339:
http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/abudawud/038-sat.php
Of course, adultery is just one sin for which severe penalties apply. I’d suggest that you and others here browse through (when you have the time) and discover more about what Islam instructs Muslims to observe and how to conduct themselves.
This subject needs to be broached and discussed openly some day if for no other reason than to educate non-Muslims in the cultural ways of their new neighbours. The sooner, the better.
Great quote in that article, “considering all options” When the US says it, it merely means aggression and nukes. But when the Palestinians say it they really mean business.
What’s the US government’s greatest fear? ICC accession for Palestine. The US has already got its tit caught in the impunity wringer. The Human Rights Committee is charging bad faith in treaty compliance extending to peremptory norms of international law. The UN special rapporteur on counter-terror and human rights has described the US secret death camps in the language of a crime against humanity. And US compliance review for the Convention Against Torture comes up in November. This is causing naked panic at CIA and JSOC with Obama just hiding, trying to survive:
http://correntewire.com/scott_horton_interviews_the_other_scott_horton_on_the_white_house_cia_torture_and_homicide_complex
If the US has to make examples some scapegoats, it’s general quarters for Netanyahu. His personal safety always depended on his ability to blackmail the US, about breaches in the Nuclear Weapons Convention, about 9/11, about all sorts of regime-destoying dirt. What if he has to break the glass?
Further tragic, is the necessity to embrace the less odious in this continuing travesty. Who will speak for the good of children, instead of abusing them?
http://normanfinkelstein.com/2014/a-letter-from-samer-al-issawis-mother-to-all-supporters-of-freedom-throughout-the-world/
re Human Rights rankings
Five posts from Anon and, within the hour (sometimes within minutes), five rejoinders from Ba’ar Zevul.
I trust Hamas and/or the Palestinian Authority will pay you a bonus for your vigilance today, Ba’ar Zevul!