I should start by saying that I deeply regret, and have always regretted, the support for Hamas amongst Palestinians. I view Hamas as a nasty organization espousing an unpleasant and narrow version of Islam, and far too ready to turn to violence. I regret the passing of the secular minded and sophisticated wide culture of the urbane Palestinian elite of my youth.
I understand that Palestinian willingness to embrace the limiting certainties of Hamas is due to the appalling pressure caused by decades of unspeakable violence and repression by Israel, the squeezing of Palestinians into ever-shrinking over-crowded reservations, the killings, the continual unrelenting humiliation, the deliberate destruction of all economic base. I understand Hamas won support through social programmes. I understand the extreme corruption of the Fatah leadership, where some seemed to do very nicely out of the disaster that repressed everybody else. I understand the role of Israel and the US in promoting the initial growth of Hamas to weaken the Palestinian cause. My regret is that they succeeded.
Personally I doubt that this latest Hamas/Fatah rapprochement will last any longer than the previous ones. Even for a people in the direst situation, there will always be self-seeking sociopaths emerging as leaders.
But even with all that, the appalling smug reaction of Netanyahu is sickening. Israel at no stage had the slightest intention of entering any meaningful peace process, stopping settlement building, or reducing the dispossession and discrimination suffered by Arabs of all sorts within Israel itself. The World’s most vicious and unrelenting theological and racist state continues to be just that. The United States was not in any sense genuinely involved in abetting a peace process; it was managing the process of genocide of the Palestinians, drawn out over decades, just conducted with enough disguise to allow the mainstream media to pretend it is not happening.
I do not like Hamas, but they remain morally superior to Netanyahu on every conceivable measure.
“that the OCSE is a spin-off of NATO and US-led interference in Europe”
Given that Russia is a member and most of the Soviet bloc countries joined when they were in the Soviet bloc – I very much doubt it. Please read up on its history and the Helsinki accords, before launching into your perpetual conspiracy theory.
“Given that Russia is a member and most of the Soviet bloc countries joined when they were in the Soviet bloc”
Diversionary tactics. So I ask again because you seem to be very shy at answering.
Should the US, Cardin and company, be dictating what happens in Europe via OCSE?
How would you like me to ask the above question to elicit an answer if you do not like any of the four ways it has been phrased.
“The World’s most vicious and unrelenting theological and racist state”
Er, Craig, wouldn’t that be Saudi Arabia surely? As vile as the Zionist State may be, they do permit the practice of other religions besides their own (unlike the Saudis). Also they do confine their support of terrorism to those terrorists who attack Israel’s enemies (as in Syria), unlike the Saudis who support those terrorists even when they attack the Saudis’ own allies.
And however brutal Israeli cops may be towards Palestinians, I’ve not heard of them chasing teenage girls back into burning buildings, as the Saudi police have notoriously done.
As to racist, I guess that depends on whether you class Jews as a “race”, which is scientific terms is very dubious. Jews belong to many races and racial mixtures, although within Israeli Jewry there is certainly a racial pecking-order with white European Ashkenazi at the top and black Falashas at the bottom.
Some negative reporting from the Times of Israel. Only to be expected I suppose.
Top Palestinian negotiator: Hamas is not a terror group
In Arabic interview, Saeb Erekat also says Gaza-based Islamists need not recognize Israel since Israeli leaders don’t recognize Palestine
April 25, 2014
Hamas is not a terror organization and never will be, the chief Palestinian negotiator with Israel told Sky News in Arabic on Friday.
Erekat made the comments after Israel suspended peace talks on Thursday in light of this week’s signing of a unity agreement between the two rival Palestinian factions, Fatah and Hamas. The Israeli government said it would not negotiate with a Palestinian leadership that included a Hamas component, since “Hamas is a terrorist organization that seeks the destruction of Israel.”
Erekat, in his Friday interview, countered that “Hamas is not and will never be a terrorist organization to us.”
/..
http://www.timesofisrael.com/top-palestinian-negotiator-hamas-is-not-a-terror-group/
Peace talks or not, the daily toll on the lives of the Palestinians continues.
Zionism in practice – Israel’s Daily Toll on Palestinian Life, Limb, Liberty and Property
24 hours to 8am 24 April 2014
1 air strike – 5 attacks – 19 raids including home invasions – 4 beaten – 11 injured – 6 acts of agricultural/economic sabotage – 23 taken prisoner – 8 detained – 117 restrictions of movement
Israeli drone strike injures 2 children and 4 adults
Israeli Navy opens fire on fishing boats in 3 Gaza districts: 2 fishermen taken prisoner
Israeli tanks shell Beit Hanun farmland
Incursion: Israeli Army shoots its way onto al-Qarara farmland and bulldozes crops
Israeli Army uproots fruit trees and conducts military training exercises on Beit Ummar farmland
Israeli soldiers abduct 2 youths aged 16 and 17
Israeli Army tags 6 West Bank homes threatened by annexation Wall
Israeli checkpoint troops beat up 4 residents
Settler militants damage Palestinian fruit trees
Night peace disruption and/or home invasions in 2 refugee camps and 10 towns and villages
http://www.sapienspromise.org/modules/news/article.php?storyid=3126
John Goss, would you believe that the OSCE is legit, not just the only one, if two Russian Duma members chair it?
I think you are making a point about not very much at all, my concern lies with the observation of possible human rights breaches, election manipulations and downright armed aggression, regardless of who is doing it.
If all parties to the OSCE have signed up to be observed by it, as well as to observe others, then you have really no point.
These observer teams are mixed, by design. It is not impossible to place spies within these teams, but this applies to any outfit that goes abroad, and its well known, whether its archeology, or some other, maybe scientific survey team, mining, anything really, all I’m saying is, that its up to the OSCE to make sure that these people are picked at random from a pool, mixed and shuffled after every placement.
If this is not already happening, then these would be simple measures to implement.
Another point John, you failed to say who you woulkd like to see observing both sides in this increasingly rabid exchange and whether you agree with increasing the contingent to at least 500, hopefully some more.
Logically the more you have the more concise your judgement, be rest assured that there will be no nudge nudge wink wink between US and German observers, it will be strictly professional and by the book, I have no doubt.
What do I base this on? Because of the facts on the ground and the importance of this issue to Europe Russia and our future relations.
If this conflict is allowed to fester and create division in Europe, who’s interests would this serve? and who has a beef with the EU?
let you answer the question.
and no, I’m not an OSCE observer.
” wouldn’t that be Saudi Arabia surely? As vile as the Zionist State may be, they do permit the practice of other religions besides their own (unlike the Saudis).”
Same smell. Just as their is little difference between Obama and Putin wrt to behaviors versus rhetoric. The covert grunt of global intent has all parties taking notes from one another.
The alliance of evil has results virtually indistinguishable, one economic step at a time.
Nevermind
Give up, mate.
You must gave realised by now that rational discussion with John Goss about Russia/Putin is impossible.
He belongs to that category of people who, 50 years ago, would have said that the USSR’s hold on Eastern Europe was a splendid thing because it enabled American influence to be checked. That view is no longer respectable, so he wouldn’t say it any more (although no doubt silently regretting, alongside Putin, the demise of the Soviet Empire). Instead, and in similar fashion, anything Russia does to its neighbours today is a splendid thing enabing American and Western European influence ti be checked.
If a Russian soldier came along tomorrow and stuck the barrel of his rifle up Goss’s arse, Goss would probably thank the soldier for having given him a much needed if involuntary enema.
John Goss
I have no problem with anyone or any country interfering within reason and appropriate limits, with military action being a last resort, to defend human rights as specified in the Helsinki Accord. Now I’ve answered your question perhaps you might ask a related question as to whether you support Russia’s interference in Ukraine, most of the old satellite states of the Soviet Union and Syria or Iran’s interference in Syria, or Hezbollah’s interference in Syria, or Saddam’s Iraq’s interference in Kuwait, Kurdistan or Iran, or Slobbo’s interference in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia or Kosovo all of which were most certainly not motivated by human rights? Your silence on this sort of interference has been deafening over the past few years.
I too should be very interested to hear Mr John Goss’s reply to Resident Dissident’s questions. Cards on the table time!
“I have no problem with anyone or any country interfering within reason and appropriate limits, with military action being a last resort, to defend human rights as specified in the Helsinki Accord.”
What is so great about the Helsinki Accord when the country that has the most influence through OSCE is the one with one of the worst human rights’ record of all 57 participating states. The US is not even party to the ICC. I have heard no credible stories about Russia influencing affairs in Ukraine. Only the US, UK and organisations like Chatham House, Swedbank and NATO, who are known to have supported Yatsenyuk, have had any influence with the illegal coup. Quite clearly though some people are not concerned with that. You amongst them.
John; Righties think in black-and-white. They can’t conceive how shades of grey shadow-dance across the political wall. Try as we might to dissuade them we are in the tank for Putin, it is a fool’s errand.
Especially when you remember they aren’t interested in reaching any middle-ground on the issues, since they don’t see anything except their own pov.
“I have heard no credible stories about Russia influencing affairs in Ukraine.”
____________
Of course you’ve heard them, you just don’t want to listen.
Question : the Baltic states have loud and vociferous Russian minorities (mostly imported there after 1945) which continually complain that they are victims of discrimination.
Should elements of those minorities ask for fraternal assistance and protection, does John Goss think that Russia should respond to those requests by intervening militarily?
**********************
“Life has become better, life has become merrier!” (The Little Father, ca. 1934)
Breaking…http://rt.com/news/155104-soledar-ukraine-military-attack/
H/T Squonk.
Habbabkuk’s solution for Ukraine
Whatever happens, no federalisation – this would give Russia a permanent handle over Ukraine’s future orientation.
Let the eastern and southern “Russian” parts go “independent” or join Russia. Those regions are full of basket-case industries anyway. Let the Russian train take the strain!
A smaller and more homogenous Ukraine, rid of its Russian fifth column, to join NATO immediately.
Political and economic relations with the EU to be developed with all due speed. Firstly through an enhanced Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, thereafter moves towards membership.
In parallel : financial help to Ukraine re energy costs and diversification; Western and Central Europe to enhance its energy supply security in the various ways open to it, including by derogating from relevant December 2008 European Council remits.
Incidental benefit : Russia will have won this battle but lost the war (a little like Craig Murray wrote several threads ago if memory serves).
BLITZKRIEG? Or, is it another version of …http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht
The useful idiot speaks….
“John Kerry has attacked RT for its coverage of the Ukraine crisis, calling it a “propaganda bullhorn.” Neglecting to address the US’ role in the conflict or back up his assertions with any evidence, Kerry said Russia was behind the unrest in Ukraine.”
Lib Dems; Teabaggers; same smell.
Wanted for the crime of murder against the English language – BEN:
“The covert grunt of global intent has all parties taking notes from one another.”
Should the Mods or the Attorney-General inexplicably fail to take the required action, I call on Anon (or was it ESLO?)to add the above to his collection of Ben-eries adorning the wall of his downstairs lavatory.
****************
Dump reals, rupees, remnimbis and rubles!
” inexplicably fail to take the required action,” * grunt, grunt…* lol.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/global-society-destruction-and-the-ukraine-crisis-decoding-its-deep-structural-meaning/5379275
“The EU’s financial rule by banker mechanisms has already been almost as great a failure as the oligarch-marketization of Russia after 1990. It is a complex system of one-way powers of life deprivation and social ruin which I define in The Cancer Stage of Capitalism: From Crisis to Cure (1999, 2013). Elected governments lose all control to the new absolute and overriding imperative of European rule – to grow and multiply private transnational money sequences. In accord with the ruling formulae, the Greek economy has been slashed by 25 per cent, unemployment is an official 28 per cent excluding the unpaid, the public health system is dismantled to pay foreign banks, wages are cut by a quarter, the public sector is sacked and privatized, and jobless youth rises to 60 per cent even with mass emigration. These outcomes now await Ukraine.”
Know just who you are supporting. Oh wait, you knew that already.
That’s what freedom is. You are free to choose rule by Oligarchs, or oligarch banksters.
Ahhh, the sweet smell of democratic republics.
Resident Dissident has no problem with anyone or any country interfering within reason and appropriate limits, with military action being a last resort, to defend human rights as specified in the Helsinki Accord! Alert the media.
Quite as though his fake democracy gives a rat’s arse what he thinks about anything, he beavers away in a lonely little sandbox where every chav can play statesman in proud ignorance of UN Charter Article 2, UNGA res. 2625 (XXV), UNGA resolution 2131 (XX) of 1965, the ICJ’s very first case, DRC V. Uganda (2005), and evidently, what law is.
There is evidently satisfaction in sounding resolute and stupid which escapes me. Perhaps it’s the pleasure of pulling little phrases out your arse. Within reason and appropriate limits. Goodness how sad. Come now, this is no way to convince us of your much-vaunted but unspecified fine education and cosmopolitan flair.
“I have heard no credible stories about Russia influencing affairs in Ukraine.”
Not even this one
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6988860.stm
or this one
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7806870.stm
@Habba
“Whatever happens, no federalisation”
Couldn’t agree more – Putin does not understand the concept of federalisation or decentralisation of power in the slightest. His whole period in power in Russia has been one of continuous centralisation and the taking away of power from the regions and other members of the Russian Federation – and I defy any of his puppets here to demonstrate otherwise.
Jamessir Bensonmum
I defy you to tell us how the Helsinki Accord is in defiance of International Law and how the OSCE is operating in defiance of the ICJ. Come please spell it out.
“and I defy any of his puppets here to demonstrate otherwise.”
John; Do you need more evidence of their 2-dimensional thinking?
It’s not our problem to provide a paradigm shift for their consumption.
They can only handle Fish N Chips.
Only the US, UK and organisations like Chatham House, Swedbank and NATO, who are known to have supported Yatsenyuk, have had any influence with the illegal coup.
Of course you forget the Ukrainian people – all the protests were just by local fascists, or at least that is what your puppet masters told you.
BTW you still haven’t answered my questions.
It’s not our problem to provide a paradigm shift for their consumption.
Lets just say I would rate the chances of Mr Goss providing a paradigm shift even higher than one coming from Mr Putin.
Resident Dissident
Unless you’ve become a covert admirer of the Insolent Squatter, I think you might have meant “lower”? 🙂
“Unless you’ve become a covert admirer of the Insolent Squatter, I think you might have meant “lower”? ”
The week-end shift is disappointing. Give us smarter t****s.