I should start by saying that I deeply regret, and have always regretted, the support for Hamas amongst Palestinians. I view Hamas as a nasty organization espousing an unpleasant and narrow version of Islam, and far too ready to turn to violence. I regret the passing of the secular minded and sophisticated wide culture of the urbane Palestinian elite of my youth.
I understand that Palestinian willingness to embrace the limiting certainties of Hamas is due to the appalling pressure caused by decades of unspeakable violence and repression by Israel, the squeezing of Palestinians into ever-shrinking over-crowded reservations, the killings, the continual unrelenting humiliation, the deliberate destruction of all economic base. I understand Hamas won support through social programmes. I understand the extreme corruption of the Fatah leadership, where some seemed to do very nicely out of the disaster that repressed everybody else. I understand the role of Israel and the US in promoting the initial growth of Hamas to weaken the Palestinian cause. My regret is that they succeeded.
Personally I doubt that this latest Hamas/Fatah rapprochement will last any longer than the previous ones. Even for a people in the direst situation, there will always be self-seeking sociopaths emerging as leaders.
But even with all that, the appalling smug reaction of Netanyahu is sickening. Israel at no stage had the slightest intention of entering any meaningful peace process, stopping settlement building, or reducing the dispossession and discrimination suffered by Arabs of all sorts within Israel itself. The World’s most vicious and unrelenting theological and racist state continues to be just that. The United States was not in any sense genuinely involved in abetting a peace process; it was managing the process of genocide of the Palestinians, drawn out over decades, just conducted with enough disguise to allow the mainstream media to pretend it is not happening.
I do not like Hamas, but they remain morally superior to Netanyahu on every conceivable measure.
Habba
Close competition – but remember what they say about faint praise.
The week-end shift is disappointing. Give us smarter t****s.
Couldn’t agree more.
To see Mr. Dissident’s point one must be familiar with the seminal Dunning-Kruger convention.
Acculturation promotes the propagation of international law internationally but within nations it is limited by factors such as intellect and habits of mind.
Jamesolk;
Kinda like the Bukowski effect…
” ‘The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.’
Ben.
“Give us smarter t****s.” Don’t be unkind to them. We’ve got the best.
“Je n’ai jamais fait mais une prière à Dieu, un très court: “O Seigneur faire mes ennemis ridicule.” Et Dieu lui a accordé. ” Voltaire
…
Seven troll free minutes here,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHdGr-yPl1E&list=PL95792E2A11FCBBA7
Luv all that Jazz, sofia. Here’s for those of us who can only dream of visiting far away places.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aA9OqUuA6a0
Bensondick
Clearly your education paid for out of whoever’s ill-gotten gains didn’t equip you with manners or the ability to answer a straightforward question. But then certain things can never be polished.
Ben. 1 51am
Coconut and Lime. Thanks.
“You say yaaah ain’t there nothing i can take
I said wow to relieve this belly ache
I said doctor ain’t there nothing i can take”
Try Habbabreak, IT REALLY WORKS!!!”
Here it is, https://greasyfork.org/scripts/246-habbabreak
I regret your smug attitude Craig, it gives off a smell of moral superiority.
Hamas were voted in.
The Palestinians voted them in, because they are the people the Palestinians want to represent them.
You might have preferred Palestinians to take whatever Israel wants to give they by turning the other check.
But Palestinians chose Hamas and its response to violence with retaliatory violence in spite at the unease Hamas’s retaliation gives to white liberal supporters of Palestinians.
White liberals might find it easier to support Muslims if Muslims claimed to be some sort of pacifists, with a literal interpretation of the verse of the Christian Bible that says turn the other check.
That we would die without raising a finger to defend ourselves or striking back so you can feel sorry for us. That you can feel smug when you attack war criminals like Netanyahu over the thousands they kill because they wouldn’t be able to justify it by the single digit figures the likes of Hamas kill while defending the Palestinians or in retaliation to Palestinian deaths.
The Palestinians voted for who they did because they know the Quran gives people who are attacked to defend themselves. This isn’t just the interpretation of the Quran held by Hamas, it is the Quran.
Craig believe it or not, the Palestinians know more about Hamas they voted for, and Israel that rules them then you do.
But yes, I agree the Palestinians were wrong to have voted for Hamas. Because they were wrong to have voted at all. They were silly to assume that anyone takes democracy or the choice of Palestinians seriously. They should have known the minute brown people vote for something white liberals do not support, marks the end of white liberal support for democracy.
Arsalan, good to see you again. I think you’re over-reacting a bit – Craig has never objected to anyone fighting back; he doesn’t insist upon “turning the other cheek”. Here’s a recent example:
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2014/04/pyongyang-style-unionist-propaganda/#comment-453839
“In the 2008 Annapolis negotiations, the Palestinian delegation presented a generous map that would have enabled Israel to keep 60 percent of its settlers in place as part of a two percent land swap, while also maintaining the West Bank’s territorial contiguity. The Israeli delegation rejected the map, not, however, on topographical grounds but because it was deemed politically infeasible—as then-foreign minister Tzipi Livni insisted, no Israeli leader could accept it and still survive in office.
Stripped of natural resources, tourist revenues from Jerusalem, and territorial contiguity, the so-called Palestinian state envisaged by the Kerry plan will at some point—there’s already talk of it—be forced to confederate with the Kingdom of Jordan. The “Jordanian option” dates back to the Peel Commission recommendations in the 1930s; was realized from 1948 to 1967 when Jordan annexed the West Bank, and was supported by Israel’s Labour Party after the 1967 war. But, although shelved after the first intifada and the Palestinian declaration of statehood in 1988, it appears to have been given a new lease on life: Not just in effect but also in fact, Palestine will disappear from the map.”
http://www.newleftproject.org/index.php/site/article_comments/the_end_of_palestine_its_time_to_sound_an_alarm
Netanyahoo refusing to negotiate because Hamas said something contrary to Abbas’ concessions is like Putin refusing to negotiate with US because the Tea Party hates ‘Commies’.
From Ben’s source
The “Jordanian option” ….. was realized from 1948 to 1967 when Jordan annexed the West Bank,…”
___________________
At last! Every time in the past when I’ve pointed out precisely this fact (in an attempt to show Jordan’s share of the responsibility for there not already being a Palestinian state), various Eminences went ballistic.
Thank you, Ben, for supplying this confirmatory source. Now your fellow Eminences will have to believe it 🙂
“Initially proposed as a response to the outbreak of the “Great Arab Revolt” against the British Mandate in 1936, a confederation with Jordan has consistently been used by the global and regional powers as a mechanism to punish Palestinian political activity and reward loyal clients. The Peel Partition Plan called for the creation of a small Jewish state in northern Palestine and for an Arab state united with Transjordan under the rule of the first King Abdullah, who until his death remained a willing British tool. This plan was soundly rejected by the Palestinian Arab leadership, who objected to the partition of Palestine, the leadership of Abdullah, and the proposed population transfer of roughly 225,000 Palestinians from the territory allotted for the Jewish state.”
http://electronicintifada.net/content/deconstructing-jordan-option/7095
Since 1948 Jordan has taken in nearly 2 million Palestinian refugees; more than Gaza and the West Bank population combined.
John Goss
I have no problem with anyone or any country interfering within reason and appropriate limits, with military action being a last resort, to defend human rights as specified in the Helsinki Accord. Now I’ve answered your question perhaps you might ask a related question as to whether you support Russia’s interference in Ukraine, most of the old satellite states of the Soviet Union and Syria or Iran’s interference in Syria, or Hezbollah’s interference in Syria, or Saddam’s Iraq’s interference in Kuwait, Kurdistan or Iran, or Slobbo’s interference in Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia or Kosovo all of which were most certainly not motivated by human rights? Your silence on this sort of interference has been deafening over the past few years.
3rd request
The oppression and interference is ceaseless.
Israel tightens grip around al-Aqsa mosque 23 April 2014 Al-Jazeera – 23 April 2014
A right-wing Israeli settlement group has been put in charge of two controversial new projects to develop the area around al-Haram al-Sharif, or Noble Sanctuary, the compound of holy sites that includes al-Aqsa mosque and the golden-topped Dome of the Rock.
Elad received planning approval this month to develop a huge visitors’ centre, called the Kedem complex, in a former car park just outside the Old City walls in the Palestinian neighbourhood of Silwan. While the visitors’ centre will give Elad a base less than 20 metres from the Old City, a second project could extend its reach to the retaining wall of al-Aqsa mosque itself.
Al-Haram al-Sharif compound has been the most contested piece of territory in the Holy Land since Israel occupied Jerusalem’s Old City in 1967, along with the West Bank and Gaza Strip. Tensions have been heightened recently, as extremist Jews have begun entering the compound in larger numbers, with quiet backing from Israeli officials. The groups have sought to overturn a long-standing rabbinical prohibition on praying on the Temple Mount.
/..
http://www.jonathan-cook.net/2014-04-23/israel-tightens-grip-around-al-aqsa-mosque/
Ben
“Since 1948 Jordan has taken in nearly 2 million Palestinian refugees; more than Gaza and the West Bank population combined.”
________________________
If that is so, it makes Jordan’s decision to de facto annex the West Bank (rather than helping to set up an independent Palestinian state there) even stranger, doesn’t it.
Looking into the past is through a glass, darkly. Just as Obama’s self-directed prophecy that what worked in 1864 will work today, is a descriptor for living in the past, and we need focus on the realities of the Here and Now. We don’t fight wars with iron swords or muskets and although human nature has evolved but a tick beyond Linclon’s age, the force of power exerted on humans has exponentially increased. The more pressure; the less reasonable are the decisions made.
Nice to see you too Clark.
I have been busy with loads of stuff lately so have very little time to read and even less to write replies to what I read.
My response was more towards the attitude of many in the European Left than Craig in particular.
They seem to carry the same attitudes of superiority. One where they see Support of lesser races as dictating to them rather than supporting their own choices.
I take Craigs comments about Palestinians and their choice of Hamas in the same way I would take comments condemning Jews for the resorting to Violence during the Warsaw uprising.
Former Prime Minister of Israel and former commander of the elite IDF intelligence unit ‘Sayeret Matkal’, Ehud Barak is a master of stratagem.
Rewind to 2001 backstage at the BBC World offices in London, Ehud was preparing to forge the War on Terror’s Zionist narrative in the vulnerable shell-shocked minds of his global audience.
“We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem,” Ehud would chime.
‘War on terror’ would be pulled out of it’s box and the cellophane removed.
The sophistry then and today will ensure Israel survives, adversaries are rendered impotent and Eretz Yisrae dominates the planet. The plan promised to smash Iraq, Syria and Iran.
Now Ehud must gain support from Putin and Russia to fracture, dehumanise and portray Muslims as heartless, bloodthirsty animals.
The Ukraine putsch and powerplay is calculated to strengthen Russian/Israeli relations and basically weaken Russia’s support for Assad and Syria. That IS Ehud’s revised scheme before the strike on Iran and the demise of Palestinian unity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAueLjdKh1s
Mark; ““We are Israeli. We are not your problem. Your problems are our problems. The Palestinians are the problem,” Ehud would chime.”
Almost the exact wording given by one of the 5 dancing Israelis. Talking points memo distributed.
Anon
25 Apr, 2014 – 11:32 am
“I’ve had a quick look at the IHRRI country rankings by human rights record and there are about 154 countries below Israel on that list.”
What you fail to point out Anon is that Israel, on the IHRRI rankings, lies at number 56 and is below (yes worse than) such human rights loving countries like China, Guyana and Russia!
doug scorgie
And that is after Israel uses every pressure tactic and cry of Anti-semitism to lift it as high as it can.
Arsalan; It’s a shame there isn’t enough pushback on ‘antisemitism’ as a term carefully selecting the Jewish peoples as Semitic, when Arabs largely have the same roots.
Just like the Holocaust was their’s alone, even though millions of other oppressed were eliminated. Nary a mention of any of them in that contest.
The thing is, they have warn the term out even on Jews. They use it on very religious Jews for being Anti-Zionists. They use it on leftist Jews that may disagree with an action of Israel. They even use it on each other. Even the butcher of sabra and shatila Arial Sharon was called an Anti-semite by the rabid supporters of Benjamin Netanyahu. And I have read Netanyahu being called by people more extreme than he is.
Antisemite, is just a meaningless swearword now. Over use has worn it out.
The funny thing is, the same people who wear it out by over use, are the same people who wipe it from being used where it is needed. The biggest supporters of Israel are the Nazi EDL and BNP, who make a very bad secret of their desire to kill all Jews. And the evangelical Zionist Christians who believe Jews should all convert to Christianity or be slaughtered.
So these days someone can hate the Jewish people, hate the Jewish religion and they are not Antisemite as long as they support Israel. But others who have nothing against Jews or Judaism are Antisemite if they disagree with something Israel does, or not support it to the level that is demanded.
The Lucerferans have been at work again.
Gaza’s Ark Attacked
for immediate release
At 3:45 AM Gaza time on April 29th, the night guard on board Gaza’s Ark received a call to leave the boat because it was going to be attacked.
The guard left, but when nothing happened, he returned after 5 minutes. A few minutes later, a large explosion rocked the boat causing extensive damage.
The boat sank part way and is now sitting on the shallow sea floor. The guard was not injured but was taken to hospital for tests.
Mahfouz Kabariti, Gaza’s Ark Project Manager, says: “The extent and nature of the damage are currently being investigated. We will provide an update when available.”
“Gaza’s Ark and all our partners in the Freedom Flotilla Coalition are considering our next move in response to this cowardly act of terrorism, but our position remains clear: Neither this nor any other attack will stop our efforts to challenge the blockade of Gaza until it ends,” adds David Heap of Gaza’s Ark Steering Committee.
“Freedom Flotilla boats have been sabotaged before. This attack comes as we were almost ready to sail. You can sink a boat but you can’t sink a movement,” concludes Ehab Lotayef, another member of the Steering Committee.
http://www.gazaark.org/2014/04/28/gazas-ark-attacked/
Pitiless, heartless, life denying. And they pretend to have a God. A little video below of Gaza’s Ark being launched – OFF its keel by a digger. There was hope in their hearts. They are imprisoned on land, and imprisoned by sea. Tell all the nations – the nations complicit in this greatest evil. The poor people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=nTV-VNTrPh0
29 April 2014
Have MidEast talks failure killed two-state goal?
By Jeremy Bowen
BBC Middle East editor, Jerusalem
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-27210263
Hear the entrenched view of the Israeli settler in Hebron.
Hear and see the young Palestinian father with his beautiful little ones who are living in a damp cave since their house was demolished by the Israelis.
Small flicker of light from the BBC Mary, maybe some gatekeepers are turning their backs towards the deceivers. I will expose the rest despite the sands of time weakening.
Mark I thought Bowen was speaking from the Israeli perspective. I think I heard him right – ‘A final deal would need both leaders to persuade their people that big sacrifices are necessary, and will in time improve their lives.’
What ‘big sacrifices’ does Bowen have in mind for the Palestinians? An acceptance of the evil Oslo accords? What more is there for them to give? Their land and their homes have gone and their freedom.